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Filemaker 11

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    Filemaker 11

    DESKTOP DEVELOPMENT

    Yesterday I did have some extra time and I spent that examining Filemakers new web pages. They have launched new release version 11.

    Of course I did in my mind compare Alphas and Filemakers way to do things.

    Filemaker believes 100 % to desktop applications. Their idea is bring the desktop application to web if you like. Few clicks and your table, database, data is in web. They have a dedicated server solution to this. And to use the data in server you have to have a desktop license. So they are targeting to desktop also this way.

    But if you wish, you can build as complex web solution as you like through the PHP API they are offering to Filemaker 11 web development. But they are clearly focusing to the idea to use web through filemakers desktop version.

    In Alpha we have clearly two different development roads. Desktop and Web. They are totally two different stories.In Filemarket that is also the situation. You have use PHP API if you want to make a pure web application in Filemaker 11.

    In Filemaker they really believe to the Desktop. And as an extra bonus you can but Desktop to web without any extra coding if you like. So you can offer a hybrid to your customers easily.

    In Alpha Desktop we can clearly see that Alphas development is 100% in Web side. Alpha should very carefully think is this one way road they are now decided to go a dead end to the Desktop Development with Alpha.


    Ken
    (Las Vegas desktop where?)

    #2
    Re: Filemaker 11

    I agree that Alpha needs an app server which takes standard desktop forms and makes them available on the web. Filemaker is not the only product that does it now. There is a Business Basic version called Providex with an app server which translates their forms and makes html pages. The only changes that need to be made to the desktop application involve logins and menus.

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Filemaker 11

      Rob,

      One thing that would make extremely cautious in considering Providex is its corporate parent, Sage Software.

      Act! contact manager is in their product portfolio and for five years running, Sage has a track record of horrible customer support and bugs by the ton.

      Don't believe me? Check out the customer reviews on Amazon.com here:

      http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001CU62U4/ref=s9_simh_gw_p65_i4?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=17XVPSEAN60HA7JCSV2W&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=5078468

      Filemaker's big shortcoming in my book is that it doesn't allow the use
      of external ActiveX or .net controls. If they ever do, Alpha's desktop days may be numbered, which may be their strategy anyway.

      Bob McGaffic
      Pittsburgh, PA

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Filemaker 11

        Bob,

        I've used Business Basic for many years and Providex for the last two years. It's a very stable product and not severely buggy. Its weakness is that the form and report creation is awkward because it's not VS standard. And there is a lot of hand coding. Alpha does a lot of that heavy lifting for you:).

        My point is that there exists other software which can automatically generate web pages from a desktop application. I'm sure Alpha could do it if they wanted to.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Filemaker 11

          Originally posted by aRob View Post
          My point is that there exists other software which can automatically generate web pages from a desktop application. I'm sure Alpha could do it if they wanted to.
          Sure would be great if Alpha did. I hoped they were heading in that direction by creating the grid with the desk top.

          kenn
          TYVM :) kenn

          Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Filemaker 11

            Anyone interested should read up on Filemaker thoroughly. FM does not port a desktop application to the web at all. You select fields from a given table and it creates an HTML form with a few stock javascript buttons for List, Add, Delete, View, and rudimentary security, etc. The result is a simplistic browser page that FM refers to as "for basic web viewing and data entry ". I remember DataEase first accomplished this back in 2001 or so. A good xbasic script could probably accomplish the same thing.

            Even FM's PHP Assistant thing looks simplistic from the examples on their website. I doubt that any company is really porting their desktop GUI application to a real web app, at least not if the desktop application is as complex as what you can create with Alpha Five.

            Just my opinion, but I did spend an hour on the FM site to review first.
            Steve Wood
            See my profile on IADN

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Filemaker 11

              Originally posted by Steve Wood View Post
              . A good xbasic script could probably accomplish the same thing.
              So Alpha Team Its time to do this for next version out of box.

              Ken

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Filemaker 11

                Just an observation.....and not to be Danny BringMeDowner here.....:)

                There is no way I can see this ever happening for anything other than the most simplistic forms (as Steve noted) - if at all. I have some forms that have so much code running and things getting checked at certain stages......I would never expect this to somehow be ported over to the web side with no work on my part. The word impossible comes to mind. :)

                If Alpha did make some simplistic ability to do this on basic forms, they would create SO much trouble for themselves because people A to Z would say...."But the conversion doesn't work on my form!(that in fact is probably not basic at all)". There are a multitude of ways to handle almost everything in Alpha. I, for example, only allow data entry into any portion of my apps through a form / xdialog in dialog mode. Others let folks enter straight into a browse......there is no way for Alpha to handle all these scenarios automatically. Not without taking away the flexibility we all love so much about Alpha. They would have to confine everyone to ONE WAY to do certain things IMO.


                Just my opinion.....

                Regards,

                Jeff

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Filemaker 11

                  I have used Filemaker VERY extensively for about 14 years. During this time I have developed software and runtimes that are used by literally thousands of people in Ohio, California and Alabama. In addition, I have developed a comprehensive web site that uses Filemaker 10 on the backend. This was developed using the Filemaker PHP API.

                  The biggest advantage of Filemaker over Alpha is that runtimes are cross platform. Both Mac OS X and Windows XP and higher are supported. Developing on either platform allows you to create something that runs almost seamlessly on the other platform. Data files can literally be used by both platforms without any translation.

                  With that being said, Filemaker 11 is the weakest update ever released from my view point. It does not support Tiger (10.4) at all. Runtimes also require additional installations to be supported (Something that has never been required before). There few new features added (charts for example) do NOT work in runtimes. PDF creation is also not supported on runtimes without the use of a plugin.

                  I can say with certainty that users are MUCH more interested in a web based system than a runtime. This is especially true in the education market that I deal with. Trying to get schools to stay current with updates (let alone install the runtime software to begin with) is becoming impossible. This is what has prompted me to look at Alpha. The implementation of Ajax and near desktop performance from a web app is EXTREMELY appealing. Filemaker 10 and 11 do have a nice PHP assistant that allows you to create fast web apps but they are extremely limited in functionality.

                  Without a doubt, the biggest feature difference is web reporting. Generating PDF reports via PHP and Filemaker is tedious and extremely slow. Filtered reports that are easily accomplished in Alpha are almost impossible in Filemaker. This is especially true with conditional formatting.
                  The other big advance is role based security model in Alpha. This can be created in Filemaker via sessions, but it is not very robust.

                  Filemaker Server is much more expensive than Alpha. It does allow an easy way to get a file hosted that allows users to interact with a Filemaker document via Filemaker Client. Speed is VERY slow if there are any unstored calculation fields. It cannot hold a candle to SQL.

                  While I will continue to use Filemaker, I am wanting to move into a platform that offers more power with less "work arounds." Alpha looks like it will meet those needs...I just need to learn how to use it fully. Here is hoping the documentation and help file gets flushed and re-written :)

                  My just two cents worth!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Filemaker 11

                    I have some forms that have so much code running and things getting checked at certain stages......I would never expect this to somehow be ported over to the web side with no work on my part. The word impossible comes to mind.
                    The code runs on the server, the browser is the visual user interface. It doesn't seem impossible.

                    I know, I know there is this situation, and that and that scenario ...

                    Correct me if I am wrong but now Alpha does nothing to convert a desktop application to a web application. Anything would be a step in the right direction.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Filemaker 11

                      Rob

                      That is correct as far as I can tell. You have to develop a web app version of the same file. Filemaker lets you develop a local file and simply host it with Filemaker Server. You then access it via Filemaker Client (NOT a runtime......they are not allowed to access hosted files).....or you create a PHP site to access the same database. This allows for a hybrid app that can be accessed both via the web and via Filemaker Clinet.

                      But as I said in my post......performance of a Filemaker file being hosted is generally NOT very fast....even when hosted on a dedicated server.

                      By the way....performance on Filemaker 11 is SLOWER then Filemaker 10. This is true on desktop files...scrolling is at least 25% slower from my experience. While I have not tested it yet, files hosted on on Filemaker Server 11 are probably also going to exhibit this behavior.

                      Greg

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Filemaker 11

                        "You select fields from a given table and it creates an HTML form with a few stock javascript buttons for List, Add, Delete, View, and rudimentary security, etc. The result is a simplistic browser page that FM refers to as "for basic web viewing and data entry ". "

                        Originally posted by kkfin View Post
                        So Alpha Team Its time to do this for next version out of box.

                        Ken
                        Erm, it's called a web grid??? Only, you can't compare it because it's got far more options and a more sophisticated end result... ;)
                        Last edited by NoeticCC; 03-25-2010, 11:29 AM.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Filemaker 11

                          Originally posted by NoeticCC View Post
                          Erm, it's called a web grid???

                          Web Grid in the desktop application. Interesting, where I put it?


                          t. Ken

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Filemaker 11

                            Using XDialog, videos found here
                            Glen Schild



                            My Blog

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Filemaker 11

                              Yes this is clear to me.

                              And now how I publish to the web?

                              Ken

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