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Filemaker 11

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    #16
    Re: Filemaker 11

    Not sure what you mean. The xdialog approach allows you to use grid components in a desktop environment. There is no ability to use desktop forms with embedded grid components on the web.
    Glen Schild



    My Blog

    Comment


      #17
      Re: Filemaker 11

      Mission Impossible with this version of Alpha

      Ken

      Comment


        #18
        Re: Filemaker 11

        I think some of you have missed the strategy Alpha has adopted. They are merging the desktop and web its just coming from the web perspective. I think the vision they have is you design for the web and increasingly the functionality for that will be usable in desktop applications not vice versa. Although it is somewhat frustrating for those of us who have only put our time into desktop applications it may well be the right strategy overall for Alpha. They are putting increasing effort into providing courses in web application development and none into the desktop. This alone should tell you where the company is heading.
        One of the biggest hurdles they need to get over is the server and hosting costs. Web applications are only really viable for medium to large businesses at the moment. How many small businesses are going to sign up to $140 a month hosting costs when there is a desktop equivalent that does the same job for a one of fee.

        So over the next few years Alpha will lose more and more of the desktop market as it has failed to keep up with the new features and I guess have their fingers crossed they will have a bigger share of the web market that will hopefully grow at a quick enough rate to compensate.

        Comment


          #19
          Re: Filemaker 11

          Originally posted by gmeredith17 View Post
          I think some of you have missed the strategy Alpha has adopted.They are merging the desktop and web its just coming from the web perspective.
          I think this is today clear to all of us. But question is why. Why don't Alpha offer to desktop developers an easy way to share their data through web. (Alpha could sell server to them too)
          I can't understand why this would harm anybody.

          Why everybody have to in this new Alphas concept learn the web programming. (SQL, css, javascript, html the list is endless).

          To develop to Web you really have to know what you are doing. It is too risky just try and learn.

          Ken

          Comment


            #20
            Re: Filemaker 11

            Originally posted by gmeredith17 View Post
            So over the next few years Alpha will lose more and more of the desktop market as it has failed to keep up with the new features and I guess have their fingers crossed they will have a bigger share of the web market that will hopefully grow at a quick enough rate to compensate.
            Absolutely,

            We can see it already in this message board. Big boys are developing to the web and others are here wondering what to do...

            Ken

            Comment


              #21
              Re: Filemaker 11

              Originally posted by kkfin View Post
              Why everybody have to in this new Alphas concept learn the web programming. (SQL, css, javascript, html the list is endless).

              To develop to Web you really have to know what you are doing. It is too risky just try and learn.

              Ken
              Ken

              I think you have said it yourself. The web is both a wide and varied place. Alpha has traditionally built everything around dbf tables and technologies and has done a fine job over the years doing so.

              However, dbf's on the web is not really a place to go. Steve Wood in his webinar yesterday eluded to this very problem because of the way that connections to dbf files need to remain open. It is just not a scaleable option.

              Therefore Alpha have needed to look at using other client/server options such as SQL and MySQL etc and I think have taken a revolutionary step by building an engine that allows us to connect with all the major models with virtually no coding or writing of SQL scripts.

              I have been making that transition myself and although the initial learning curve is steep NOW I have a vehicle in A5V10 which has a phenomenal engine under the hood. Granted there are issues but these are not the exclusive domain of Alpha as has been said on here of Filemaker. Yes it seems that they have offered a form of a desktop to web conversion but it seems it has it's own issues particularly in performance.

              I am doing more and more browser based work as that is what is in demand so therefore I have not attempted any hybrid apps with a desktop front as well so personally I have not integrated components into a desktop form.

              Regards

              Glen
              Glen Schild



              My Blog

              Comment


                #22
                Re: Filemaker 11

                Originally posted by gmeredith17 View Post
                One of the biggest hurdles they need to get over is the server and hosting costs. Web applications are only really viable for medium to large businesses at the moment. How many small businesses are going to sign up to $140 a month hosting costs when there is a desktop equivalent that does the same job for a one of fee.
                I'm somewhat in the same boat as you at the moment as I just don't have the time as a small business owner to learn what is necessary to get done what I need to quickly using the WAS. However, I do see the beauty in what is being offered and the path for the future. In the quote above, you mention "web applications" whereas they are really "browser applications". Therefore, with a decent machine running WAS in house, all your browser apps are now very simply available over your network wires to all those desktop users. And now you will not have to worry about whether the runtime is going to work on any machine and even let machines with other OS's have access to your apps. One price - no monthly fees - less maintenance - less data flow over the network - all OS's supported. Seems like an OK direction to me. I'll be willing to spend the time moving there. I guess it's not really any different than when we moved from DOS to Windows. A lot of learning for the power but worth it in the end.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Re: Filemaker 11

                  Am I the only one who thinks that web apps are uglier than desktop apps?

                  Am I the only one who thinks that web navigation with page numbers is more awkwark and inefficient than scroll bars?

                  The web grid is a perfect example.

                  Less is more.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Re: Filemaker 11

                    Am I the only one who thinks that web apps are uglier than desktop apps?

                    You are probably not alone, but I think the opposite is true. No offense to anyone, but I have seen more ugly desktop applications from experienced developers the than you can shake a stick at. The web app server makes it easy to create consistent looking, reasonably pleasing interfaces, in my opinion. Coding functionality may be a little bit harder on the web, of course. But it is definitely getting much easier than previously with v10.

                    Am I the only one who thinks that web navigation with page numbers is more awkwark and inefficient than scroll bars?

                    It is more awkward, yes. But that is a web limitation, not an Alpha short come.
                    Peter
                    AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

                    [email protected]
                    https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


                    Comment


                      #25
                      Re: Filemaker 11

                      re training

                      -- check out Alpha Five videos at

                      http://docs.google.com/View?id=d52ghw8_152hr64pvdd

                      Alpha Five report writer videos

                      http://www.imakenews.com/alphasoftwa...x000432646.cfm

                      Hands On training Conference

                      http://www.imakenews.com/alphasoftwa...x000431310.cfm
                      Richard Rabins
                      Co Chairman
                      Alpha Software

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Re: Filemaker 11

                        Originally posted by Doug Page View Post
                        However, I do see the beauty in what is being offered and the path for the future.
                        When I think all the programs I have bought they are almost all desktop applications. Alpha is selling to us desktop applications. Alpha Five is a desktop application. Alphas Application Server is a desktop application. Adobes products are for desktop. Microsoft products are for desktop. Almost all selling products are for desktop. You need to buy first a desktop product to use the web part usually.

                        But we here with Alpha we are little by little putting all ours apples to one basket: Web grids.

                        Ken

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Re: Filemaker 11

                          Originally posted by kkfin View Post
                          DESKTOP DEVELOPMENT

                          Yesterday I did have some extra time and I spent that examining Filemakers new web pages. They have launched new release version 11.

                          Of course I did in my mind compare Alphas and Filemakers way to do things.

                          Filemaker believes 100 % to desktop applications. Their idea is bring the desktop application to web if you like. Few clicks and your table, database, data is in web. They have a dedicated server solution to this. And to use the data in server you have to have a desktop license. So they are targeting to desktop also this way.

                          But if you wish, you can build as complex web solution as you like through the PHP API they are offering to Filemaker 11 web development. But they are clearly focusing to the idea to use web through filemakers desktop version.

                          In Alpha we have clearly two different development roads. Desktop and Web. They are totally two different stories.In Filemarket that is also the situation. You have use PHP API if you want to make a pure web application in Filemaker 11.

                          In Filemaker they really believe to the Desktop. And as an extra bonus you can but Desktop to web without any extra coding if you like. So you can offer a hybrid to your customers easily.

                          In Alpha Desktop we can clearly see that Alphas development is 100% in Web side. Alpha should very carefully think is this one way road they are now decided to go a dead end to the Desktop Development with Alpha.


                          Ken
                          (Las Vegas desktop where?)
                          To state that "Alpha's development is 100% in the Web side" is actually 100% wrong!!



                          We are very committed to both Desktop and Web and to also bridging the gap.

                          Future versions of Alpha Five will continue to make significant advancements on the Desktop. I can say this with total confidence as I know what development at Alpha has already been completed, but not yet released.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Re: Filemaker 11

                            Originally posted by rmcgaffic View Post
                            Rob,

                            One thing that would make extremely cautious in considering Providex is its corporate parent, Sage Software.

                            Act! contact manager is in their product portfolio and for five years running, Sage has a track record of horrible customer support and bugs by the ton.

                            Don't believe me? Check out the customer reviews on Amazon.com here:

                            http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001CU62U4/ref=s9_simh_gw_p65_i4?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=17XVPSEAN60HA7JCSV2W&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=5078468

                            Filemaker's big shortcoming in my book is that it doesn't allow the use
                            of external ActiveX or .net controls. If they ever do, Alpha's desktop days may be numbered, which may be their strategy anyway.

                            Bob McGaffic
                            Pittsburgh, PA
                            My guess is that Filemaker will NEVER support ActiveX controls because their whole strategy is based on cross platform (well actually only two platforms - Windows and Mac).

                            The Mac is extremely important to them

                            As long as they want to support the Mac, they can't support ActiveX.

                            I seriously doubt that Alpha's desktop days are in any way threatened by anything that Filemaker does.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Re: Filemaker 11

                              Originally posted by gmeredith17 View Post

                              So over the next few years Alpha will lose more and more of the desktop market as it has failed to keep up with the new features and I guess have their fingers crossed they will have a bigger share of the web market that will hopefully grow at a quick enough rate to compensate.

                              Actually NO.

                              As I have said repeatedly, we are committed to both desktop and web and are continuing to innovate on both platforms.

                              Our share is growing on both platforms.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Re: Filemaker 11

                                Originally posted by Doug Page View Post
                                guess it's not really any different than when we moved from DOS to Windows.
                                I think you are wrong. The step is huge and very different than from dos to windows.
                                To put your customers data to web is big big thing. Your really have to trust yourself. If you make mistake somebody will certainly find your mistake and take advantage of that.

                                You can not/have time to do everything by yourself. You have to use third party tools and you can not learn every aspect of these products. You don't actually know if there are security holes in tools you use. And how to test your own code?

                                Most of time you just hope everything is ok but it is just matter of time when you get call from your customer...

                                Ken

                                Comment

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