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Successful 6 Instances of WAS

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    #61
    Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

    Shouldnt you be in bed.

    Navicat is such a great program.

    I rethought how I was going to build my portal due to you choosing MySQL for the security as I was originally going use MSSQL but I didn't want 2 Database Servers running on the same box so decided to bite the bullet go with MySQL.

    Navicat made it so easy for me with the scheduled Import routines so all I have to do push the MSSQL Data from my MIS system with SSIS and then import with navicat, brilliant.

    Fingers crossed you hit the July 1st data as I don't want to go live with my current project until I have that in place.

    Chris

    Comment


      #62
      Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

      Awesome explination Steve thanks for doing all of that for the board.

      Turnbullca, Here is where you can set the cpu in Always up.
      Chad Brown

      Comment


        #63
        Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

        Steve et al,

        One of the issues with multiple instances is the session folder. There are three was to handle the session folder.

        1st, do nothing. The effect of this is all sessions for all instances go into the same session folder. This is a problem because when one of the instances dies (and it will!) and you have to restart it, the session folder gets rebuilt. So, you lose all session variables for all instances. Not good!

        2nd, specify different names for each folder. I tried this a while ago, and it really messes things up because the WAS will build the filter you specify and use it sometimes and will also build a default folder and use that other times, so you can't always find your session variables or print files. Also not good. There have been a few patches since I tried this, so it may have been changed.

        3rd, change the session folder in the config file to "__default__" (you can copy that from the session software setting to make sure you have the right number of underscores). When I tried this, it creates a session folder using the ip as part of the folder name, so you get separate folders for each instance. The problem I had with this is the print routines weren't looking in that folder for the temp files. I haven't had time to chase this, but we'll need to look at the value in session.session_folder and make sure it is getting set properly in each instance.

        My preference is 3 if the printing issue can be (or has been) resolved, but for now, I'm using 1 and letting the dead instances sit until the users go home, then restarting.

        Pat
        Pat Bremkamp
        MindKicks Consulting

        Comment


          #64
          Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

          Gentlemen, the WAS instances will automatically bind themselves to cores. [In addition, the instances will automatically generate their own session folders. -- incorrect, see below]

          If you're controlling these by hand, you're doing too much work, probably based on experience with older versions.
          Last edited by mheller; 06-24-2010, 12:21 PM.

          Comment


            #65
            Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

            A comment on the load tests based on logins: The security component, which is based on DBF tables, is not as scalable as the rest of the system when you use a SQL database. We have a procedure for upsizing the security tables to active link tables against a SQL database, and you should use that if login times become an issue. You must use that if you want to load-balance multiple boxes.

            Load testing using a script that has all the users logging in at once does not reflect the real world. That's a common mistake. Even if you tell all your users to log in at the same time, they usually don't hit the mark -- the logins are spread over several minutes, and you typically don't see many overlapping logins.

            When you're load testing, you also need to script realistic "think times" between actions.

            Comment


              #66
              Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

              In addition, the instances will automatically generate their own session folders.
              Martin, what does that mean in terms of what we enter in the config file for these two settings? I copied these from a working config file, including the assigned value.

              SessionFolders.Path = "C:\a5\a5webroot\project\session_folders_-80\"
              SessionFolders.Url = "/session_folders_-80/"
              Steve Wood
              See my profile on IADN

              Comment


                #67
                Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

                I just updated one of my sites to the latest patch of V10, and the default configuration file still shows the hard coded session folder info as Steve stated.

                The issue is not actually the session folder itself, but the session folder directory.

                So, if you are using IP binding and change the session folder and session folder URL to "__default__", then each separate instance will create it's own session folder directory using the ip as part of the name, for example in my site I have the directories
                session_folders_174.121.111.139
                and
                session_folders_174.121.174.250
                and so on.

                I just confirmed with a5w_info() that the two session folder session variables in A5 are being set correctly and that the sessions are being created in the correct folder.

                I still need to confirm that the print routine can find the printouts that are routed to the session folder.
                Pat
                Pat Bremkamp
                MindKicks Consulting

                Comment


                  #68
                  Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

                  Pat is right; I just checked.

                  We worked out a scheme where the instance session folder directories would automatically be differentiated by port number, but you're differentiating instances by IP address. You could call them sessN, where N is the instance number, as long as the path and URL match up.

                  Comment


                    #69
                    Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

                    This is becoming a very important topic.

                    I guess an important question is if this was a PHP or .Net application would you still need paralleling and the associated hardware costs? If not the difference would need to balanced against the savings by maintaining your own web application.

                    I have been soliciting quotes for hosting my application once it goes enterprise(hardware/licenses using a dedicated server) using a MySQL back end. I am being cautious because of confidentiality, but this needs to be part of the discussion. So I cant say what kind of servers etc since it is a proprietary configuration, but in place of this I can say that the service provider is highly competent in selecting the correct type of server,# processors, RAM, number of parallels etc. It was made very clear that testing is needed and this is extremely preliminary. The 20 user range is based on my own testing (real data) and is a single core dedicated window server with a single instance of WAS. Load tests fail after 20 users. Also, for confidentiality reasons instead of using price I broke this down into the number of simultaneous users for every dollar spent. What is important though is how the data is curved which shows efficiencies as the number of users goes up.

                    Users # users per $1 spent
                    20 2
                    100 18
                    1000 287

                    So does this look about the same as hosting a PHP or .Net web application?
                    Last edited by koga101; 06-24-2010, 04:51 PM.

                    Comment


                      #70
                      Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

                      This thread has been most informative. Thank You for all who contributed.

                      Comment


                        #71
                        Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

                        Lets face it Alpha has a great product that is why we are all here and use it on a daily basis. Sure its scale-able however at a cost of multiple servers and load balancing. Eventually to be a enterprise software it needs to handle at least multiple cores and most likely 64 bit.

                        Features we have now lets get some real speed and scalability without all the extra tweaks and money thrown at it to make it work on big projects.

                        Obviously I mean larger than mine,

                        I am a happy customer and enjoy working with Alpha, its just a few thoughts on what I think V11 needs to have or be!
                        Chad Brown

                        Comment


                          #72
                          Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

                          Hi guys,

                          Has anyone found any time to put together a step by step guide to set up multiple instances of WAS?

                          This would be very useful to all of us creating db's with lots of concurrent users.

                          I certainly am one of them.

                          Thanks,

                          Denis

                          Comment


                            #73
                            Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

                            we can assist on this through our professional services group

                            please contact me if you want more details
                            thanks


                            [email protected]
                            Richard Rabins
                            Co Chairman
                            Alpha Software

                            Comment


                              #74
                              Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

                              Just wanted to mention that I will be going the SQL server rout. It seems that non-profit organizations have very low licensing fees for Microsoft products. So low that it does not make sense to go with MySQL, which was originally chosen because it was free rather than being pretty :o

                              What will be interesting is that the whole set up will be done in-house, rather than by a hosted solution, and by network administrators utilizing their existing resources to have the largest number of simultaneous users. The variable cost is bandwidth.

                              When I have an outcome I will post it here. Hopefully it will offer additional options to developers when providing Cost of Ownership projections for mid to large size organizations.
                              Last edited by koga101; 07-20-2010, 10:33 PM.

                              Comment


                                #75
                                Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

                                Just wanted to update everyone I have now changed off of the 6 instances due to the Amyuni driver locking up all instances if more than one instance uses the driver at the same time. This was happening on average every three days and it was taking out all of the instances. I have now changed to multiple servers at a greater expense in both licensing and server charges.

                                In conclusion the multiple instances did work good for scalability however in the long run if you are using printing on those multiple instances you will have issues with the Amyuni driver queue locking up and taking out all of the other instances as soon as a user tries to print from that WAS.

                                This project is not in a test, this is a live site and is as real world as it gets.

                                Looking forward to some enhancements from the WAS side of things. We can make some very exciting sites from the Alpha Five soon we need a server that can keep up to Selwyn's great features.
                                Chad Brown

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