New call-to-action
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 61 to 90 of 102

Thread: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

  1. #61
    Member
    Real Name
    Chris Turnbull
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    445

    Default Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

    Shouldnt you be in bed.

    Navicat is such a great program.

    I rethought how I was going to build my portal due to you choosing MySQL for the security as I was originally going use MSSQL but I didn't want 2 Database Servers running on the same box so decided to bite the bullet go with MySQL.

    Navicat made it so easy for me with the scheduled Import routines so all I have to do push the MSSQL Data from my MIS system with SSIS and then import with navicat, brilliant.

    Fingers crossed you hit the July 1st data as I don't want to go live with my current project until I have that in place.

    Chris

  2. #62
    "Certified" Alphaholic chadbrown's Avatar
    Real Name
    Chad Brown
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Aurora, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,416

    Default Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

    Awesome explination Steve thanks for doing all of that for the board.

    Turnbullca, Here is where you can set the cpu in Always up.
    Chad Brown

  3. #63
    VAR Pat Bremkamp's Avatar
    Real Name
    Pat Bremkamp
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Oregon, USA
    Posts
    2,649

    Default Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

    Steve et al,

    One of the issues with multiple instances is the session folder. There are three was to handle the session folder.

    1st, do nothing. The effect of this is all sessions for all instances go into the same session folder. This is a problem because when one of the instances dies (and it will!) and you have to restart it, the session folder gets rebuilt. So, you lose all session variables for all instances. Not good!

    2nd, specify different names for each folder. I tried this a while ago, and it really messes things up because the WAS will build the filter you specify and use it sometimes and will also build a default folder and use that other times, so you can't always find your session variables or print files. Also not good. There have been a few patches since I tried this, so it may have been changed.

    3rd, change the session folder in the config file to "__default__" (you can copy that from the session software setting to make sure you have the right number of underscores). When I tried this, it creates a session folder using the ip as part of the folder name, so you get separate folders for each instance. The problem I had with this is the print routines weren't looking in that folder for the temp files. I haven't had time to chase this, but we'll need to look at the value in session.session_folder and make sure it is getting set properly in each instance.

    My preference is 3 if the printing issue can be (or has been) resolved, but for now, I'm using 1 and letting the dead instances sit until the users go home, then restarting.

    Pat
    Pat Bremkamp
    MindKicks Consulting

  4. #64
    Former Alpha Employee mheller's Avatar
    Real Name
    Martin Heller
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Andover, MA
    Posts
    261

    Default Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

    Gentlemen, the WAS instances will automatically bind themselves to cores. [In addition, the instances will automatically generate their own session folders. -- incorrect, see below]

    If you're controlling these by hand, you're doing too much work, probably based on experience with older versions.
    Last edited by mheller; 06-24-2010 at 12:21 PM.

  5. #65
    Former Alpha Employee mheller's Avatar
    Real Name
    Martin Heller
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Andover, MA
    Posts
    261

    Default Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

    A comment on the load tests based on logins: The security component, which is based on DBF tables, is not as scalable as the rest of the system when you use a SQL database. We have a procedure for upsizing the security tables to active link tables against a SQL database, and you should use that if login times become an issue. You must use that if you want to load-balance multiple boxes.

    Load testing using a script that has all the users logging in at once does not reflect the real world. That's a common mistake. Even if you tell all your users to log in at the same time, they usually don't hit the mark -- the logins are spread over several minutes, and you typically don't see many overlapping logins.

    When you're load testing, you also need to script realistic "think times" between actions.

  6. #66
    Volunteer Moderator Steve Wood's Avatar
    Real Name
    Steve Wood
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Bay Area, California
    Posts
    8,849

    Default Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

    In addition, the instances will automatically generate their own session folders.
    Martin, what does that mean in terms of what we enter in the config file for these two settings? I copied these from a working config file, including the assigned value.

    SessionFolders.Path = "C:\a5\a5webroot\project\session_folders_-80\"
    SessionFolders.Url = "/session_folders_-80/"
    Steve Wood
    Join the ALPHA DEVELOPERS NETWORK
    There is no Cloud. It's just someone else's computer.
    Web - Mobile - Hosting - Products - Frameworks - Developer Resources
    AlphaToGo | IADN (100% Alpha Anywhere Websites)

  7. #67
    VAR Pat Bremkamp's Avatar
    Real Name
    Pat Bremkamp
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Oregon, USA
    Posts
    2,649

    Default Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

    I just updated one of my sites to the latest patch of V10, and the default configuration file still shows the hard coded session folder info as Steve stated.

    The issue is not actually the session folder itself, but the session folder directory.

    So, if you are using IP binding and change the session folder and session folder URL to "__default__", then each separate instance will create it's own session folder directory using the ip as part of the name, for example in my site I have the directories
    session_folders_174.121.111.139
    and
    session_folders_174.121.174.250
    and so on.

    I just confirmed with a5w_info() that the two session folder session variables in A5 are being set correctly and that the sessions are being created in the correct folder.

    I still need to confirm that the print routine can find the printouts that are routed to the session folder.
    Pat
    Pat Bremkamp
    MindKicks Consulting

  8. #68
    Former Alpha Employee mheller's Avatar
    Real Name
    Martin Heller
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Andover, MA
    Posts
    261

    Default Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

    Pat is right; I just checked.

    We worked out a scheme where the instance session folder directories would automatically be differentiated by port number, but you're differentiating instances by IP address. You could call them sessN, where N is the instance number, as long as the path and URL match up.

  9. #69
    Member koga101's Avatar
    Real Name
    Chris O'Brien
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    105

    Default Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

    This is becoming a very important topic.

    I guess an important question is if this was a PHP or .Net application would you still need paralleling and the associated hardware costs? If not the difference would need to balanced against the savings by maintaining your own web application.

    I have been soliciting quotes for hosting my application once it goes enterprise(hardware/licenses using a dedicated server) using a MySQL back end. I am being cautious because of confidentiality, but this needs to be part of the discussion. So I cant say what kind of servers etc since it is a proprietary configuration, but in place of this I can say that the service provider is highly competent in selecting the correct type of server,# processors, RAM, number of parallels etc. It was made very clear that testing is needed and this is extremely preliminary. The 20 user range is based on my own testing (real data) and is a single core dedicated window server with a single instance of WAS. Load tests fail after 20 users. Also, for confidentiality reasons instead of using price I broke this down into the number of simultaneous users for every dollar spent. What is important though is how the data is curved which shows efficiencies as the number of users goes up.

    Users # users per $1 spent
    20 2
    100 18
    1000 287

    So does this look about the same as hosting a PHP or .Net web application?
    Last edited by koga101; 06-24-2010 at 04:51 PM.

  10. #70
    Member
    Real Name
    John Kukuda
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    488

    Default Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

    This thread has been most informative. Thank You for all who contributed.

  11. #71
    "Certified" Alphaholic chadbrown's Avatar
    Real Name
    Chad Brown
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Aurora, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,416

    Default Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

    Lets face it Alpha has a great product that is why we are all here and use it on a daily basis. Sure its scale-able however at a cost of multiple servers and load balancing. Eventually to be a enterprise software it needs to handle at least multiple cores and most likely 64 bit.

    Features we have now lets get some real speed and scalability without all the extra tweaks and money thrown at it to make it work on big projects.

    Obviously I mean larger than mine,

    I am a happy customer and enjoy working with Alpha, its just a few thoughts on what I think V11 needs to have or be!
    Chad Brown

  12. #72
    Member
    Real Name
    Denis Ahmet
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    988

    Default Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

    Hi guys,

    Has anyone found any time to put together a step by step guide to set up multiple instances of WAS?

    This would be very useful to all of us creating db's with lots of concurrent users.

    I certainly am one of them.

    Thanks,

    Denis

  13. #73
    Alpha Software Employee Richard Rabins's Avatar
    Real Name
    Richard Rabins
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Posts
    2,347

    Default Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

    we can assist on this through our professional services group

    please contact me if you want more details
    thanks


    richard@alphasoftware.com
    Richard Rabins
    Co Chairman
    Alpha Software

  14. #74
    Member koga101's Avatar
    Real Name
    Chris O'Brien
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    105

    Default Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

    Just wanted to mention that I will be going the SQL server rout. It seems that non-profit organizations have very low licensing fees for Microsoft products. So low that it does not make sense to go with MySQL, which was originally chosen because it was free rather than being pretty :o

    What will be interesting is that the whole set up will be done in-house, rather than by a hosted solution, and by network administrators utilizing their existing resources to have the largest number of simultaneous users. The variable cost is bandwidth.

    When I have an outcome I will post it here. Hopefully it will offer additional options to developers when providing Cost of Ownership projections for mid to large size organizations.
    Last edited by koga101; 07-20-2010 at 10:33 PM.

  15. #75
    "Certified" Alphaholic chadbrown's Avatar
    Real Name
    Chad Brown
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Aurora, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,416

    Default Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

    Just wanted to update everyone I have now changed off of the 6 instances due to the Amyuni driver locking up all instances if more than one instance uses the driver at the same time. This was happening on average every three days and it was taking out all of the instances. I have now changed to multiple servers at a greater expense in both licensing and server charges.

    In conclusion the multiple instances did work good for scalability however in the long run if you are using printing on those multiple instances you will have issues with the Amyuni driver queue locking up and taking out all of the other instances as soon as a user tries to print from that WAS.

    This project is not in a test, this is a live site and is as real world as it gets.

    Looking forward to some enhancements from the WAS side of things. We can make some very exciting sites from the Alpha Five soon we need a server that can keep up to Selwyn's great features.
    Chad Brown

  16. #76
    Volunteer Moderator Steve Wood's Avatar
    Real Name
    Steve Wood
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Bay Area, California
    Posts
    8,849

    Default Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

    Perhaps other solutions are to not use any of the functions that call the print driver, build pure html reports from scratch or use an SQL-based report writer and call the report. I think I've avoided this problem on my 18-instance web app because I don't use the report.saveas() function anywhere, the reports are all hand-coded exports and rendered html pages. That was just how the application was designed, I wasn't aware of any print driver issue at the time.
    Steve Wood
    Join the ALPHA DEVELOPERS NETWORK
    There is no Cloud. It's just someone else's computer.
    Web - Mobile - Hosting - Products - Frameworks - Developer Resources
    AlphaToGo | IADN (100% Alpha Anywhere Websites)

  17. #77
    "Certified" Alphaholic chadbrown's Avatar
    Real Name
    Chad Brown
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Aurora, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,416

    Default Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

    Great idea Steve. Maybe I will need to go that route later.

    I'm with you I didn't know of any problem either until I had multiple crashes.

    From my understanding Amyuni does have a driver that will handle the queue but it is not the one included with the WAS License.

    That would be a feature pack that I would buy right now.
    Chad Brown

  18. #78
    "Certified" Alphaholic
    Real Name
    Chris Tappan
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Marietta, GA
    Posts
    1,303

    Default Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

    Would there have been any way to direct all print jobs to the same instance?

  19. #79
    "Certified" Alphaholic
    Real Name
    eric
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Amsterdam
    Posts
    1,284

    Default Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

    Quote Originally Posted by chadbrown View Post
    Great idea Steve. Maybe I will need to go that route later.

    I'm with you I didn't know of any problem either until I had multiple crashes.

    From my understanding Amyuni does have a driver that will handle the queue but it is not the one included with the WAS License.

    That would be a feature pack that I would buy right now.
    I agree with Chad that Amyuni driver with queue is the best option.
    Other options are using beside the solution from Steve external report writers like Jaspers, Microsoft Report Service but most A5 folks use Alpha Software Report Writer.

  20. #80
    "Certified" Alphaholic
    Real Name
    Chris Tappan
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Marietta, GA
    Posts
    1,303

    Default Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

    So is the queued Amyuni driver just something purchased and installed separately? If so, why didn't you go this route Chad?

    I find this all really disappointing because Alpha specifically touted the ability for multiple users to call the same report at the same time in one of the pre-10.5 v10 upgrades.

  21. #81
    "Certified" Alphaholic chadbrown's Avatar
    Real Name
    Chad Brown
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Aurora, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,416

    Default Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

    Supposedly you cant the original one is integrated into the was. If it was a way to go trust me I would have.
    Chad Brown

  22. #82
    "Certified" Alphaholic mmaisterrena's Avatar
    Real Name
    Mauricio Maisterrena
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Torreon, Mexico
    Posts
    1,435

    Default Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

    Stupid Idea:

    why not duplicate the reports for each server eg.
    invoice_server1
    invoice_server2
    so that each server can only access their own set of reports using some kind of session variable
    Cheers
    Mauricio


  23. #83
    "Certified" Alphaholic chadbrown's Avatar
    Real Name
    Chad Brown
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Aurora, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,416

    Default Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

    They all work off the same webroot same pages same grids and its not only when they click on the same report any two reports in combination can trigger the problem.
    Chad Brown

  24. #84
    "Certified" Alphaholic mmaisterrena's Avatar
    Real Name
    Mauricio Maisterrena
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Torreon, Mexico
    Posts
    1,435

    Default Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

    Thats why I said it was a stupid idea :D
    Cheers
    Mauricio


  25. #85
    "Certified" Alphaholic
    Real Name
    eric
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Amsterdam
    Posts
    1,284

    Default Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

    There are questions on the Amyuni board about "spool" or queue jobs on the vendor website.
    But that is not the package that is supllied with AlphaSoftware there using the embedded "developer edition" you can check this by the Amyuni printer driver and check preferences. There is no option to change preferences so maybe in the Amyuni "Pro" version you can. No idea or that this package is supported by AlphaSoftware,

    Also it's unclear that by using the Amyuni PRO version the WAS will keep running you don't have a "hang" on your system or have to reboot at the end of the day as serveral folks reported on this board.

    A normal situation is that a printer [driver] device supports spooling.
    I could be wrong in this situation that A5 and Amyuni driver do support the spool option then there are other reasons the WAS hangs, for what I don't have the right answer.

  26. #86
    "Certified" Alphaholic chadbrown's Avatar
    Real Name
    Chad Brown
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Aurora, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,416

    Default Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

    Eric I don't think I have ever said it doesn't support spooling. Maybe I am missing your point or its not directed at me. My problem is Amyuni ends up with multiple documents and will not print them out. And for me it does hang the WAS instances, and I can reproduce the problem if I want to. Also Alpha employee has confirmed that it is a problem and that's why they have a work around for the problem that they will gladly build for you at 150/hr. It uses the desktop version to create a queue table and then you can build a grid to access the created pdf files.
    Chad Brown

  27. #87
    VAR Pat Bremkamp's Avatar
    Real Name
    Pat Bremkamp
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Oregon, USA
    Posts
    2,649

    Default Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

    About a month ago I contacted Amyuni and was told that I could not run their Pro version with Alpha. The way it is designed, if I install the Pro version, it will be overwritten by the Alpha Amyuni version every time I try to print through Alpha.

    Pat
    Pat Bremkamp
    MindKicks Consulting

  28. #88
    "Certified" Alphaholic
    Real Name
    eric
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Amsterdam
    Posts
    1,284

    Default Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

    ?? Also Alpha employee has confirmed that it is a problem and that's why they have a work around for the problem that they will gladly build for you at 150/hr. It uses the desktop version to create a queue table and then you can build a grid to access the created pdf files.
    __________________

    A desktop workaround ?
    we talking webapps here, I hope there is an other solution to solve this
    then to reset the server at the end of the day at large projects you need a bike or stay at the office

    thanks for sharing

  29. #89
    "Certified" Alphaholic chadbrown's Avatar
    Real Name
    Chad Brown
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Aurora, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,416

    Default Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

    Ya exactly my opinion. I do have a temp fix which involves Always up and a sanity check to kill off the printing queue and if that doesn't work then it will restart the machine. Not exactly what we are after due to the user(s)loosing the report(s) that they were looking to print.
    Chad Brown

  30. #90
    "Certified" Alphaholic
    Real Name
    eric
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Amsterdam
    Posts
    1,284

    Default Re: Successful 6 Instances of WAS

    I can understand that you use a desktop module for batch print large amount of invoices etc as type of background jobs nothing else I can think off, hope it will be solved in the future, knowing the guys at Alphasoftware there will come a solution [as always]

Similar Threads

  1. Can onyone assist with a successful process for image refernece files.
    By peteconway in forum Application Server Version 9 - Web/Browser Applications
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 12-17-2008, 07:51 PM
  2. Running multiple WAS instances
    By Pat Bremkamp in forum Application Server Version 9 - Web/Browser Applications
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 07-01-2008, 09:29 AM
  3. Test connect successful, still can't publish
    By Wanda Tucker in forum Web Application Server v6
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 08-30-2005, 05:37 AM
  4. Two instances of A4v8?
    By Paul H in forum Alpha Four Versions 7 and 8
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-06-2003, 11:32 AM
  5. Several instances of A5 opening, then crashes
    By Wanda Tucker in forum Alpha Five Version 5
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 03-19-2003, 06:28 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •