depoying an A5 application is a nightmare

[Ted Giles]

Mike, I just gave the CD with the FULL install package to the user and they ran it. Desktop Icons appeared, worked first time. It should be runnable from a web site.
Or am I missing something?
When I upgrade the forms etc. I just send a zip file which is loaded on the server and Network Optimise handles the version updates.
I don't seem to have experienced any Win7 64 bit problems either. But my washing machine broke but I don't thing that has anything to do Bill Gates.

[kwparker80]

My wife's computer just proved this to me as the virus she obtained used admin privileges to change every conceivable way to circumvent it to try to get rid of it...including even the Task Manager, System Restore, and Folder permissions....even from command prompt. No data lost but reformat was the only choice this time.

I have seen that virus in action - it came from one of those online AV scanners that pops up out of nowhere and tricks you into downloading.

Fix = Wipe and Reload everything.

[martinwcole]

usually, if you google the name you can find a free utility to remove it

[DaveM]

Fix = Wipe and Reload everything.

suggest you try www.malwarebytes.com and it is free. You will have to download it on another computer and run it from a disk or from a thumb drive.

Beats reformatting by a bunch

[kwparker80]

Apparently niether of you have seen this virus. You cannot run ANY AV programs at ALL, or access any external ports or drives. All the while it is bombarding your email server to the point Comcast shut me down. Like I said, wipe and reinstall. By the way, I started repairing PC's in 1976, this ain't no noobie you are talkng to.

[milesjg]

kwparker80,

Did you try changing the boot option and booting from a clean (boot) CD with a anti virus on it. ?

[Peter.Greulich]

...By the way, I started repairing PC's in 1976, this ain't no noobie you are talkng to.

I don't doubt that you're not a newbie, but I thought IBM came out w. the PC in 1981? :confused:

[DaveM]

I started repairing PC's in 1976,

1971 for me and it was a wang machine at that time.

There were a few others before IBM set the standard. It was a wild time during those years.

I believe IBM chose Bill Gates dos system - renamed IBM dos with some changes instead of another better dos system that was out at the time for monetary reasons. A lady had developed a great dos, but was way out there on price vs Gates. Correct me if I am erred on this??

Amiga was a great system later.

The point is to me, anything I can do without wiping is a plus. This computer has been infected with a virus that shut off all my communications, file system, everything. I was doing a ctrl-alt-delete as windows started and shutting down anything I did not recognize. It finally got me open to a thumb drive for a short time. I was able to get my anti-malware going. It caught 18 in 30 bseconds. I cleared those and ran it again. Found about 12 more. Then I ran it complete - 2 hours and found a few more. After that the computer ran fine, but could not open IE to a web page. The virus had close my outside port by changing the settings for IE. Direct access was still open as evidenced by virus software. Changing the settings back cleared the problem. I used malwarebytes to clear all this up. also ran avg and cc cleaner. also ren a microsoft reg cleaner.

All together it took 6 hours to complete. It would have taken 3 times that long to get the whole system back to date and some would have been lost.





.

[kwparker80]

kwparker80,

Did you try changing the boot option and booting from a clean (boot) CD with a anti virus on it. ?

I tried everything. NO CDROM access, no USB, no SD cards, nothing. System restore was no help. The machine had two AV programs loaded on it, but neither found the virus. You could not access the internet with any of the three browsers he had installed. It was toast. Like I said, Comcast shut down my email because the machine was bombarding their users with spam, to the point they were calling Comcast within a couple of hours of me starting up the machine to work on it.

I hope I never see another machine with that Virus on it again!!

[kwparker80]

I don't doubt that you're not a newbie, but I thought IBM came out w. the PC in 1981? :confused:

A 'PC' is just a personal computer. It has nothing to do with brand or OS. If it can sit on your desk, or lap, it is a PC. As much as Apple will beg to differ with me, a MAC is a PC, too. They just tried to blur the lines to make the almighty magical Macintosh 'different'. Hogwash, it is still a PC with Unix on it. I think I am going to puke now.....

I was repairing desktop PCs in the Navy in '76, mostly Wang systems, a few others here and there. I also ran a test station called VAST which was a computerized signal generator/measurement device about 30 feet long. We used it to repair the 43 ComNav computers in the F-14 Tomcat. As a matter of fact, the first squadron I was in was the one you see in movies all the time with the skull and crossbones on the tail, VF-84.

But we are WAY off topic here. Let's let them get back to talking about deploying apps. :D

[Chet Sapino]

I have completed an A5 application developed with the potential for it to be distributed to the public. Getting it to a state able to be distibuted ito the public has been an absolute nightmare!!!! The issues presented at this point, have been insurmountable.

1. errors related to unregistered dll and ocx file.
There are a multitude of threads that relate to this issue. The "resolve" has been to use a third party installer such as "Astrum". Yeah. right! Purchased that 2 weeks ago and it 'aint a solution that folks seem to taut it to be. The trial an error there have been voluminous!

2. other issues, many issues I am too tired to go into at this moment.

Has anyone taken an a5 application completed in A5 and deployed it for distribution to the public without a nightmare that ?

Yeah. I've done it a lot.

This is really quite trivial once you figure out how to do it.

You must have the runtime installed.

You will need an ico file *.ico for your application in your database main directory. You should also have a bitmap *.bmp for a splash image while it is loading. This has to be in your main program directory. You will also have to create a start up control file for the number of users you are allowing. This file has to be created in your main developer program folder. Here are the steps. Assume your main program folder where you are doing your developing is C:\Invoice Application.


Open up your application and go to Tools|Utilities|throttle runtime user count and create the file as shown. Put the code there in your autoexec file and copy the throttle file to your program folder, C:\Invoice Application.

Create an install package using the alpha installer - Tools | Utilities | Create Install package.

1. Step 1 method: Select Both Alpha Five Runtime and Application Files. Select the executable name in a folder or it will be created on the root C drive, e.g., C:\Installer\setup.exe

2. Step 4: Select your default application folder. Do not select your program folder, e.g., C:\invoice, or wherever you want the end user to install.

3. Step 5, don't worry about anything there. Leave it all blank. You are not going to use this installer to commercially deploy this application.

Step 6: Shortcut Select Modify Shortcut.

Put in a name, e.g, "Invoice Application V1.1", Select location as Desktop and select All users at the bottom.

Select Use Custom Title and put in your program title, version number or whatever you want here. This will be loaded on the main window bar when your program loads and will be there in place of "Alpha Five." Select Custom Bitmap and put the name of the bitmap *.bmp which is in your program directory. In the icon field put in the name of your icon *.ico file.

Press Create Install. This will generate the install with all the required folders. This will create a startup.control file with the icon and bitmap stuff in the main program directory - your default application folder, e.g., C:\Invoice. The startup.control file can be edited with Notepad.

After the install is created, you need a key file with your runtime serial number in it or the program will ask for it when it runs for the first time. This key file should be installed in your default application folder (e.g., C:\Invoice) which was generated by the A5 installer. You create it with notepad. It is one line with the runtime serial number. The name must be license.key. Create it now.

The a5 installer generates the shortcut on your desktop. Look at the properties and write down what is in it. You will need this info if you are using Astrum as your professional install package, so it will create an identical shortcut.

Run your application by dbl-clicking on the shortcut. The bitmap should display and your program title should be displayed on top window bar as you defined in the A5 installer. Your program should load and run perfectly with the Main menu displayed with no errors.

Once you are satisfied with this, you simply generate an install using Astrum.

Rename the C:\Invoice folder to C:\Invoice Master Install. In Astrum, when you select this folder, all the sub-folders are loaded in for you.

After you select the folder, expand the + sign to show all the files. All the dlls will be at the top. You have to select a5controls.dll and click on Advanced and register it - checkbox at top. Do the same for contexteval, and all the codejack dlls. This info is in the runtime manual. This will automatically register these dlls during the install.

Fill in all the stuff on the Astrum installer to your tastes, and define the Shortcut using the info you copied out of the A5 desktop icon previously.

Generate the install and you should be good to go. Now you have a professional package.

Rename the existing shortcut on the desktop so you don't overwrite it with the Astrum install. Run the Astrum generated setup.exe and it should exactly duplicate what the a5 installer did and install everything in the C:\Invoice folder and generate the correct desktop shortcut. Compare the shortcuts and verify they are identical.

Anytime you modify your program, copy the entire developer folder contents in C:\Invoice Application to the C:\Invoice Master Install folder and you are updated as simple as than. Then regenerate the Astrum with a couple of mouse clicks.

Any time Alpha updates with a patch copy the runtime patch contents to the C:\Invoice Master Install folder and you are updated as simple as that.

You will soon find this whole thing quite trivial.

To do a multi-user application you generate the same type of install and install it to a server. You then have to generate a client install which does a shadow operation (see the A5 help). I find the multiuser shadowed clients to run very fast, actually faster than the single user version.

[CALocklin]

... Anytime you modify your program, copy the entire developer folder contents in C:\Invoice Application to the C:\Invoice Master Install folder and you are updated as simple as than. Then regenerate the Astrum with a couple of mouse clicks. ...

This is one thing I really don't understand - what is the point of copying all those files to another folder just so you can tell Astrum to include them in the install file? After all, the files in both folders are identical at the time you tell Astrum to build the installer. (This probably applies to most other third party installers as well.)

Why not just point Astrum to the files in the original development folder? That's the ONLY way I'll do it anymore.

I tried the "copy your files to a separate distribution folder" method a long time ago and soon quit. I found myself having problems remembering whether it was up to date or, worse yet, having mistakenly updated the distribution folder then overwriting it with the old stuff a couple times.

Now I never have more than one copy of any of my applications. It is both the development and the distribution copy. I no longer have to worry about which one was updated last or if I have copied the updates yet. Astrum automatically picks up all the same files as specified the last time and it doesn't matter where those files are. The only thing that needs to be changed in Astrum from one update to the next is -- nothing. (However, I do usually update my read-me file with change info and update the version number because I like to include the version number in the name of my distribution file. But neither of those things is necessary.)


Oh, OK, I lied a little about not having other copies of the app. For some customers I used to have a "last_production" copy because they might call with concerns about their current version while I'm doing an update. However, that was so seldom used that I don't do it anymore. Most of the time any questions that come up don't have anything to do with what I'm updating. And if I really do need the old stuff there is a solution. I think I used it once and I've been developing full time for about 10 years now. I can make a current backup, install the last update to see what the user is seeing, then restore from the current backup once their issue is identified. One reason I haven't had to do this more often is that when the problem has something to do with the section I'm updating then I'm probably familiar enough with it to either find it or, as has happened a couple times now, tell them I've already fixed it.

Some will ask, "Why make a backup? Why not just install the last update to a new folder?" The reason is that (a) the last update doesn't include the data files and (b) it's easier and faster for me. My update routines will automatical overwrite the last "master" version of the app that was used on that computer no matter what folder the "master" app is located in and the user does not have the choice of putting it anywhere else. (In the case of a networked app the "master" version will be on the server but that doesn't apply to my development system.) If I wanted to put it in a different folder then I would first have to copy the whole development app, including data files, to another folder, run that "new" copy of the app to set it as the "last master", then run my update installer to get the old files. That's way too much work when I have a basically one-click backup routine, one-click update routine, and one-click restore routine.

[Chet Sapino]

This is one thing I really don't understand - what is the point of copying all those files to another folder just so you can tell Astrum to include them in the install file? After all, the files in both folders are identical at the time you tell Astrum to build the installer. (This probably applies to most other third party installers as well.)

Why not just point Astrum to the files in the original development folder? That's the ONLY way I'll do it anymore.

I tried the "copy your files to a separate distribution folder" method a long time ago and soon quit. I found myself having problems remembering whether it was up to date or, worse yet, having mistakenly updated the distribution folder then overwriting it with the old stuff a couple times.

Now I never have more than one copy of any of my applications. It is both the development and the distribution copy. I no longer have to worry about which one was updated last or if I have copied the updates yet. Astrum automatically picks up all the same files as specified the last time and it doesn't matter where those files are. The only thing that needs to be changed in Astrum from one update to the next is -- nothing. (However, I do usually update my read-me file with change info and update the version number because I like to include the version number in the name of my distribution file. But neither of those things is necessary.)


Oh, OK, I lied a little about not having other copies of the app. For some customers I used to have a "last_production" copy because they might call with concerns about their current version while I'm doing an update. However, that was so seldom used that I don't do it anymore. Most of the time any questions that come up don't have anything to do with what I'm updating. And if I really do need the old stuff there is a solution. I think I used it once and I've been developing full time for about 10 years now. I can make a current backup, install the last update to see what the user is seeing, then restore from the current backup once their issue is identified. One reason I haven't had to do this more often is that when the problem has something to do with the section I'm updating then I'm probably familiar enough with it to either find it or, as has happened a couple times now, tell them I've already fixed it.

Some will ask, "Why make a backup? Why not just install the last update to a new folder?" The reason is that (a) the last update doesn't include the data files and (b) it's easier and faster for me. My update routines will automatical overwrite the last "master" version of the app that was used on that computer no matter what folder the "master" app is located in and the user does not have the choice of putting it anywhere else. (In the case of a networked app the "master" version will be on the server but that doesn't apply to my development system.) If I wanted to put it in a different folder then I would first have to copy the whole development app, including data files, to another folder, run that "new" copy of the app to set it as the "last master", then run my update installer to get the old files. That's way too much work when I have a basically one-click backup routine, one-click update routine, and one-click restore routine.

Once you generate the Master Install Folder, all the runtime files and any other files you need are there including all your database files. When you make a change in your development folder, you can simply copy the changes to this Master Install Folder and regenerate the Astrum install from it. You can also update the runtime by installing the patch into that folder.

For a particular application, I have master installs for 30 day demo, 3 user and 5-user. I have one file in the database that selects which version is which by changing a couple of fields. I have startup.control files for each of these. So I can update the whole thing from one development folder by simply changing one file and copying it to each of the master install folders. I can't be any easier. Then I generate the Astrum for each install. It takes a matter of a few minutes to generate all the installs after a program update for three products.

It works for me. Not confusing at all.

[Chet Sapino]

[QUOTE=CALocklin;546141]This is one thing I really don't understand - what is the point of copying all those files to another folder just so you can tell Astrum to include them in the install file? After all, the files in both folders are identical at the time you tell Astrum to build the installer. (This probably applies to most other third party installers as well.)

Why not just point Astrum to the files in the original development folder? That's the ONLY way I'll do it anymore.

Who installs the entire runtime files into their development folder? The purpose of the Master install folder is that all the deployment files are in there, runtime, icons, bitmaps, startup.control, etc. If you generate an install from the original development folder, you are installing nothing except the development files which are only good for a user that has A5!

[CALocklin]

OK, I think I understand your logic now.

I'm guessing that you (and many others) are doing it this way because you haven't fully understood how to use the Installation Tree to maximize its effectiveness.

In a nutshell, the installation tree can take files from multiple source locations and install them all into the same destination folder. There is no need to copy the files to one source folder just because you want them to end up in the same destination folder. The result is that my Astrum method can build the same install file as yours without copying any files anywhere on the computer before doing it.

I couldn't figure out a good way to describe the details in words so I created this demo to explain it. (Sorry, it got a bit long - about 12 minutes.)

Edit:
RE: "For a particular application, I have master installs for 30 day demo, 3 user and 5-user."
If I understand this statement correctly, I would create one Astrum file first (let's say for the 30 day demo), then copy that file to another name (let's say for the 3-user) and change the Files to Install in Astrum that make it a 3-user version. Then do the same thing for the 5-user. (I suspect you've already basically done that except that you need to copy in the appropriate 30 day / 3 user / 5 user files before building each install.) Then future updates would be a matter of selecting each of the Astrum files and clicking the Create Setup icon - no copying of files required. The various "30 day / 3 user / 5 user" files could all be in the development folder (if that works) or they could be stored separately in another subfolder or even another drive if you really wanted to. As explained above, it doesn't matter where they are on the development computer because you can tell Astrum where to actually install them regardless of their source location.

The end result is that your "a matter of a few minutes to generate all the installs" could become a matter of a few seconds.

[CALocklin]

By the way, I can understand if people don't want to convert an existing method because that takes time and involves the potential for error since it's a "new" method. However, I do believe a change would be beneficial in the long run or, at the very least, my method would be good to keep in mind for future projects.

[MikeC]

Cal's main point, and am fairly certain he will agree, is that why not automate anything that is repetitive. All Cal is demonstrating is the point of doing for ourselves what we are doing for our clients. Cal's keyboard macros is of the same nature...to expedite a process and save valuable time. Isn't that what we do as programmers for the most part!? Isn't that the reason why others hire us!? Why not do the same for ourselves?

:)

[Chet Sapino]

OK, I think I understand your logic now.

I'm guessing that you (and many others) are doing it this way because you haven't fully understood how to use the Installation Tree to maximize its effectiveness.

In a nutshell, the installation tree can take files from multiple source locations and install them all into the same destination folder. There is no need to copy the files to one source folder just because you want them to end up in the same destination folder. The result is that my Astrum method can build the same install file as yours without copying any files anywhere on the computer before doing it.

I couldn't figure out a good way to describe the details in words so I created this demo to explain it. (Sorry, it got a bit long - about 12 minutes.)

Edit:
RE: "For a particular application, I have master installs for 30 day demo, 3 user and 5-user."
If I understand this statement correctly, I would create one Astrum file first (let's say for the 30 day demo), then copy that file to another name (let's say for the 3-user) and change the Files to Install in Astrum that make it a 3-user version. Then do the same thing for the 5-user. (I suspect you've already basically done that except that you need to copy in the appropriate 30 day / 3 user / 5 user files before building each install.) Then future updates would be a matter of selecting each of the Astrum files and clicking the Create Setup icon - no copying of files required. The various "30 day / 3 user / 5 user" files could all be in the development folder (if that works) or they could be stored separately in another subfolder or even another drive if you really wanted to. As explained above, it doesn't matter where they are on the development computer because you can tell Astrum where to actually install them regardless of their source location.

The end result is that your "a matter of a few minutes to generate all the installs" could become a matter of a few seconds.

Thanks for the video. It looks like an interesting way to do it. Right now it takes me about one minute to copy the app files to my Master install directory. Then I run Astrum by loading in the Astrum file and pressing generate install. I have three versions of my software 30 Day demo, 3 user and 5 user. I change a couple of fields in a control table in my app for each version and then copy it to each master install folder along with the app files. I then have to copy the respective startup.control files to each install.

I believe I can automate this entire process using your install technique. Thanks for the info. I'll seriously look into this.

[Chet Sapino]

OK, I think I understand your logic now.

I'm guessing that you (and many others) are doing it this way because you haven't fully understood how to use the Installation Tree to maximize its effectiveness.

In a nutshell, the installation tree can take files from multiple source locations and install them all into the same destination folder. There is no need to copy the files to one source folder just because you want them to end up in the same destination folder. The result is that my Astrum method can build the same install file as yours without copying any files anywhere on the computer before doing it.

I couldn't figure out a good way to describe the details in words so I created this demo to explain it. (Sorry, it got a bit long - about 12 minutes.)

Edit:
RE: "For a particular application, I have master installs for 30 day demo, 3 user and 5-user."
If I understand this statement correctly, I would create one Astrum file first (let's say for the 30 day demo), then copy that file to another name (let's say for the 3-user) and change the Files to Install in Astrum that make it a 3-user version. Then do the same thing for the 5-user. (I suspect you've already basically done that except that you need to copy in the appropriate 30 day / 3 user / 5 user files before building each install.) Then future updates would be a matter of selecting each of the Astrum files and clicking the Create Setup icon - no copying of files required. The various "30 day / 3 user / 5 user" files could all be in the development folder (if that works) or they could be stored separately in another subfolder or even another drive if you really wanted to. As explained above, it doesn't matter where they are on the development computer because you can tell Astrum where to actually install them regardless of their source location.

The end result is that your "a matter of a few minutes to generate all the installs" could become a matter of a few seconds.

BTW, what software package did you use to make the video?

[Chet Sapino]

OK, I think I understand your logic now.

I'm guessing that you (and many others) are doing it this way because you haven't fully understood how to use the Installation Tree to maximize its effectiveness.

In a nutshell, the installation tree can take files from multiple source locations and install them all into the same destination folder. There is no need to copy the files to one source folder just because you want them to end up in the same destination folder. The result is that my Astrum method can build the same install file as yours without copying any files anywhere on the computer before doing it.

I couldn't figure out a good way to describe the details in words so I created this demo to explain it. (Sorry, it got a bit long - about 12 minutes.)

Edit:
RE: "For a particular application, I have master installs for 30 day demo, 3 user and 5-user."
If I understand this statement correctly, I would create one Astrum file first (let's say for the 30 day demo), then copy that file to another name (let's say for the 3-user) and change the Files to Install in Astrum that make it a 3-user version. Then do the same thing for the 5-user. (I suspect you've already basically done that except that you need to copy in the appropriate 30 day / 3 user / 5 user files before building each install.) Then future updates would be a matter of selecting each of the Astrum files and clicking the Create Setup icon - no copying of files required. The various "30 day / 3 user / 5 user" files could all be in the development folder (if that works) or they could be stored separately in another subfolder or even another drive if you really wanted to. As explained above, it doesn't matter where they are on the development computer because you can tell Astrum where to actually install them regardless of their source location.

The end result is that your "a matter of a few minutes to generate all the installs" could become a matter of a few seconds.

I just set this up as you did in your video. It took about 5 minutes. I love it! No copying any files!

[Windstarsoftware]

I don't get all of this. When I install an app using Astrum I go into Astrum and in advance properties for each of the two .DLL files and the OCX files and check Shared component and Register Active X Controlls and I've never had any probles with installs on Win 7, Vista or XP.

[CALocklin]

Glad to know you like it.

BTW, what software package did you use to make the video?
FastStone Capture. (www.faststone.org) I was looking for a free screen capture utility and came across this one. It cost me $19.95 but I figured it was worth it because it also has the ability to record and to capture scrolling screens (think long html pages captured in one 'stroke') plus it has it's own built-in editor for annotating the screen shots, a screen magnifier, can output to most graphics files including PDF, and can automatically upload to an FTP server. For all that I figured it was worth $20. The only down side is that the screen recorder only creates .wmv files.
Hint: If you decide to get it, set the screen recorder options down to 15 frames/second; quality - Good; and check the Compact Mode option. Those settings seem to work fine and they make the file size much smaller. (Maybe not the smallest in the industry but small for a wmv file.)

[Windstarsoftware]

Cal,

That capture utility is great! I've been using teh Older MicroMedia Captivate which cost a lot and cant scroll screens like this.

[MoGrace]

OK, I think I understand your logic now.

I'm guessing that you (and many others) are doing it this way because you haven't fully understood how to use the Installation Tree to maximize its effectiveness.

In a nutshell, the installation tree can take files from multiple source locations and install them all into the same destination folder. There is no need to copy the files to one source folder just because you want them to end up in the same destination folder. The result is that my Astrum method can build the same install file as yours without copying any files anywhere on the computer before doing it.

I couldn't figure out a good way to describe the details in words so I created this demo to explain it. (Sorry, it got a bit long - about 12 minutes.)

Since this demo link is still good, I was wondering what changes, if any have been required for working with AAv12 and Win10?

[DaveM]

To the original: In astrum, If you right click a dbf file in your install, you can choose to not overwrite it.

Robin, v12 does not have an installer built in. v12 and win10 do not make much of a difference.