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depoying an A5 application is a nightmare

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    depoying an A5 application is a nightmare

    I have completed an A5 application developed with the potential for it to be distributed to the public. Getting it to a state able to be distibuted ito the public has been an absolute nightmare!!!! The issues presented at this point, have been insurmountable.

    1. errors related to unregistered dll and ocx file.
    There are a multitude of threads that relate to this issue. The "resolve" has been to use a third party installer such as "Astrum". Yeah. right! Purchased that 2 weeks ago and it 'aint a solution that folks seem to taut it to be. The trial an error there have been voluminous!

    2. other issues, many issues I am too tired to go into at this moment.

    Has anyone taken an a5 application completed in A5 and deployed it for distribution to the public without a nightmare that ?
    Mike W
    __________________________
    "I rebel in at least small things to express to the world that I have not completely surrendered"

    #2
    Re: depoying an A5 application is a nightmare

    Mike,

    While I have not done what you are asking....I did remember seeing this from the release notes for build 3564 that might help.

    Batch Files to Re-register OCX and DLL Files - Occasionally, (typically after installing a patch) you might encounter an error when Alpha Five tries to render some HTML content. Or the error might occur in a dialog that has a Property Grid control. These errors are the result of one of the DLL files that Alpha Five uses becoming 'unregistered'. Generally, reinstalling Alpha Five will fix the problem, but now two special batch files (one for Vista/Windows 7 user, and one for XP users) are included to make re-registering all necessary files very easy. The batch files are in the Alpha Five program folder and are:
    �RegisterFiles.bat
    �RegisterFilesVistaWin7.bat
    If you are using Vista or Windows 7 you must run the appropriate batch file using Administrator privileges.
    To run the batch file:
    1.Open Windows Explorer.
    2.Navigate to the folder where Alpha Five is installed and then right click on the appropriate batch file.
    3.Select the 'Run as administrator' command.
    Note: The RegisterFilesVistaWin7.bat file will register .dll and .ocx files and then run the dhtmled.msi installer to repair the Internet Explorer ActiveX control. Alpha Five uses this control to render HTML in many places (such as the Grid builder, HTML editor, etc.)

    Comment


      #3
      Re: depoying an A5 application is a nightmare

      A5 or Access or VB... it's all a nightmare... but one that you can emerge from.

      I've done all three... less so with A5, but still done, and all three are, at best, horrible. Trial and error, differences on workstations, OS, registrations...

      The only way to get through it, is just keep going solving one problem after another until it's bulletproof.

      I've used Wise in the past but the problem with Astrum (haven't used it - so I'm guessing) and Wise is that now you have to learn another language altogether.

      My take on this is... it's just not simple stuff. Take time to get it right, learn the tool you're using.

      For Wise and Access I had to purchase a pre-made script to get it working because it's just way too complicated to work out yourself.

      When I ran into registration problems I found all the ocx/dll causing problems and used the installer to register everything.

      Comment


        #4
        Re: depoying an A5 application is a nightmare

        Hi Mike,

        I hear you loud and clear! I have deployed 4 A5 apps, and still wake up in the middle of the night having nightmares about deployment!

        I'm about to do another this week, and have PRACTISED.

        I'm not an expert with A5 by any stretch, but I have deployed HUNDREDS of apps over the years. Mainly CLIPPER or Visual Foxpro.

        I have found the best way for me to deploy A5 apps is to use the Alpha runtime installation program that puts ALL the A5 runtime on the customers machine. Then I use any installer to install the app.

        In essence I create a folder off the root, and unzip the files. Then start the runtime and my app. It is very easy. Seems to work, I know it is not the way most do this, but it works.

        I bought the A5 branding tool, and have mixed emotions about it.

        I have 7 or 8 commercial installers, including Astrum, Wise, Deploymaster, etc. I also have used Inno (free). They all work about the same, all have a steep learning curve.

        Alpha uses Wise for their deployment, and the runtime installs without a hitch.

        Thank you for all of your helpful message board help. I have used your advice many times. Keep up the good work!
        Regards from Washington State,
        Bill
        Licensed NERD

        Comment


          #5
          Re: depoying an A5 application is a nightmare

          I have not only a fool proof way to make the initial auto install exe, but also an update/patch exec, using Astrum.

          Cal Lochlin is a master with the app, and its scaleability is unlimited. BUT - you really do have to learn how to use it. I hired Cal to not only teach me, but also help me set it up for not only the initial install but also the patch install. And the patch can be run from anywhere, and it will automatically determine if it is shadowed, and where the shadow is and install it there.

          Best investment I have made in a while.
          Cole Custom Programming - Terrell, Texas
          972 524 8714
          [email protected]

          ____________________
          "A young man who is not liberal has no heart, but an old man who is not conservative has no mind." GB Shaw

          Comment


            #6
            Re: depoying an A5 application is a nightmare

            Mike,

            While I may not be on the level of Cal, I use astrum and have deployed to the public and some to the private. It is not insurmountable. I promise. It may have been easier and a time saver to use Cal's expertise, but I would not have learned as much. It took me 2 days to make the first install and it gets easier after that.

            If someone will send you a *.ai2 file you can open, it will make more sense. I do not have one here to send, but from home if you need it.

            I also use it for updates/upgrades to existing apps. That and a bootstrap made with alpha, it works almost flawless.

            Nothing is foolproof! Ask Microsoft? LOL

            Understanding Astrum is the first step, Understanding registry export is the next and You know Alpha, RIGHT?

            Unlike Bill, I put the runtime in the same folder with the shadowed app if it is a multiuser and the data in a server folder. All in one place is simpler for me. Then I use astrum to install all of it. That way the user has no issues. If it is a single user app, all is in one folder.

            I came from clipper like bill did and in some ways it was easier. I too put installs in a folder off the root. That way, if I make changes(updates), it becomes real easy to make a new(redone) install.

            My intall folder looks like this on the c drive:
            upsinstall
            standalone
            ups55new
            ups55server
            upsupdate
            ups55ws (workstation only and shadowed with a bootstrap to find the data)

            see a sample with CARE: http://www.lotrun.com/downloads.htm download it BUT install it on a clean computer. It will overwrite your alpha files in the registry!! This from 3 years ago or more and is in V7. Rewritten since then and now being completely overhauled in v10. ask me privately for the password to open it. I don't mind if you get some help from it as it is old and being redone with newer ways as I write this.



            .
            Last edited by DaveM; 07-15-2010, 11:51 AM.
            Dave Mason
            [email protected]
            Skype is dave.mason46

            Comment


              #7
              Re: depoying an A5 application is a nightmare

              Mike,

              You wrote "2. other issues, many issues I am too tired to go into at this moment."

              Those "other issues" concern me greatly. If you feel up to it
              (better rested)could you go into a few of them.?

              Comment


                #8
                Re: depoying an A5 application is a nightmare

                I use an installer from www.actualinstaller.com. I found it really easy to learn and works a treat. The only issues I ever get is with user rights on their machines. It allows for the installation of fonts, greater control of adding and removing additional files. Control of desktop shortcuts etc. Setup control on mulitple platforms etc and it was cheap
                -----------------------------------------------
                Regards
                Mark Pearson
                [email protected]
                Youtube channel
                Website

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: depoying an A5 application is a nightmare

                  alpha actually includes to bat files in the installation toregister the files as needed. one goes through XP and the other is for vista and win7. Look in your install folder.
                  Dave Mason
                  [email protected]
                  Skype is dave.mason46

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: depoying an A5 application is a nightmare

                    Well I seem to have been lucky then!
                    V7 muiti user run time installed at BT Test labs in the UK, V9 RunEngine version installed on a network where I am at the moment.
                    I just used the create install package facility - no bootstrap - and it all hung together nicely. Ran Network Optimise and away she went.

                    I presume you are using the Runtime build option?

                    The only issues I ever had which caused me sleepless nights were with A4V6 and 10 workstations on Windows 3.1.1.
                    See our Hybrid Option here;
                    https://hybridapps.example-software.com/


                    Apologies to anyone I haven't managed to upset yet.
                    You are held in a queue and I will get to you soon.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: depoying an A5 application is a nightmare

                      Originally posted by Ted Giles View Post
                      Well I seem to have been lucky then!
                      ...version installed .....where I am at the moment.
                      Yes, however an application for public distribution must not require personal presence for installation. Have yet to get the installation of an application with a runtime to install. Now another issue that seems unattainable is how to get the installation to generate a desktop icon that points to a A5 startup file which contains the information for the satrup splash screen and icons when the A5 startup file application path is hardcode when created.
                      Mike W
                      __________________________
                      "I rebel in at least small things to express to the world that I have not completely surrendered"

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: depoying an A5 application is a nightmare

                        Mike,

                        Alpha could make this better, I am sure of it. I fortunately have astrum, so don't need alpha's distribution.

                        In astrum, I simply include the folder(s) and startup link from the desktop and make an install. I happen to need the registry entries and a couple other things, so I also include those in the install. The only problems I have is when a user tries to run the install without admin priveleges.

                        The bootstrap lets the user set the data path for the runtime( I don't have to be there). That is the only real reason for it. I also use it to validate the install(set passwords, etc).

                        Now, I do one other thing to my runtimes that seems to help me. I make an *.exe to call from the startup link on the desktop. It seems to make it a little simpler(at least for me). The exe has all the stuff I want for that installation.

                        If I can help you, let me know?


                        .
                        Dave Mason
                        [email protected]
                        Skype is dave.mason46

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: depoying an A5 application is a nightmare

                          This is why I use the install maker program. It has a host of system variables that can capture the change if the user wants to install the files indifferent directories to the defaults. It allows for shortcut commands that can use the variables at install time, whether they be program files directory, root directory or desktop.

                          In relation to startup or licences, if these files are always in the runtime install directory there is never a problem
                          -----------------------------------------------
                          Regards
                          Mark Pearson
                          [email protected]
                          Youtube channel
                          Website

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: depoying an A5 application is a nightmare

                            Most of my installs have 2 files for install. 1 for the database(server) and 1 for the shadow.

                            My single user installs have 1 install.exe that puts all of it in one computer. Usually on c: drive, but the user can designate the folder/drive/both for the shadowed part.

                            My bootstrap causes the user to have to put the path to the database if they want to install differently. It pops up with directions like "\\servername\foldername\file.adb" . makes it easy for an it or me by phone if they mess it up.

                            Since I put my exe in the folder and it runs the runtime alpha.exe in the same folder, it gets easy for the user.
                            Dave Mason
                            [email protected]
                            Skype is dave.mason46

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: depoying an A5 application is a nightmare

                              I'm with Dave on this....Alpha's install program just was not doing what I required and so looked at Astrum and InstallCreatorPro.....but figured out InstallCreatorPro first and never gave Astrum a thorough looksee. I spent a day figuring out how to create what was needed, most of which was the syntax for icon/shortcut creation. It works easily now for what I need and just use what I have done in the past as the template for additional uses.

                              Mike,
                              It may be the same for you....to use a third party software you see as intuitive (sounds like either Astrum or InstallCreatorPro to me) and learn it...it won't take long to do this I am thinking as you can ask the board here for help am certain especially if Astrum is chosen---if you chose InstallCreatorPro I would do what I could you know as well.
                              Mike
                              __________________________________________
                              It is only when we forget all our learning that we begin to know.
                              It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
                              Henry David Thoreau
                              __________________________________________



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