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New subscription plan, leaves room for improvement. (imho)....

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    #46
    This brd flies for me

    I am one (meybe in the minority) who has been asking for a plan like this for years. I know my upfront costs for the year (and beyond in this case), I am getting the value that I expect. It may not be for everyone, but it works for me in a corporate environment where a budgeted amount for the year is preferred than incremental costs throghout the year.
    Bill Griffin
    Parkell, Inc

    Comment


      #47
      Re: New subscription plan, leaves room for improvement. (imho)....

      This subject is a lot more active on this forum than the desktop. I've read some comments which I had not thought about and certainly need to be considered.

      Along with other remarks, I sent this to Richard (before reading this thread) via personal email:

      The non current A5 users would do well to take advantage of this offer because even w/o v11, they'll get more product than what I have and for less than I paid. For those of us w/V10, we ARE buying a PROMISE and for that the pot should be sweeter, in other words, a bit less, $1299. There simply needs to be a bigger gap between current v10 and non v10 users.

      Actually, we would not even be buying a promise but an intent to deliver (V11) with no guarantee of any kind.

      After reviewing the comments on this thread, I still like the idea of a subscription but Alpha really needs to clean up a few areas such as the documentation short comings as mentioned earlier in this thread.

      There also are many properties on various objects which either don't work or are unnecessary. I've had some interesting discussions about this and Alpha needs to clean that up as well.

      kenn
      TYVM :) kenn

      Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.

      Comment


        #48
        Re: This brd flies for me

        Originally posted by Bill Griffin View Post
        I am one (meybe in the minority) who has been asking for a plan like this for years. I know my upfront costs for the year (and beyond in this case), I am getting the value that I expect. It may not be for everyone, but it works for me in a corporate environment where a budgeted amount for the year is preferred than incremental costs throghout the year.
        Personally, I think a subscription is a good way to go for those who want to take advantage of it. There also should be single pricing for those who want/need specific parts such as just the Developer, RT, WAS or whatever Feature Pacts they deem necessary.

        I am tired of the every other week sales promotions which as time goes by, has reduced the products to less than what I paid as a previous version holder. So much for customer loyalty. Forget the sales hype and put a price out there that's steady. If they want to have a fire sale on individual items just before a new version comes out, so be it.
        TYVM :) kenn

        Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.

        Comment


          #49
          Re: New subscription plan, leaves room for improvement. (imho)....

          I posted this on the desktop side and thought it appropriate here as well.

          Let's get a perspective?

          I use alpha on mostly desktop and a will do a few small web apps soon. I really don't need much in feature packs for what I do and can usually find a way to do it myself(with board help). Mostly the subscription plan as written is not for me.

          If I was hyuper about being totally up to date and sat doing a lot of web apps that were very intricate or doing a lot of sql and other programming in those areas, the subscription plan would make great sense.

          I think it would make better sense to all if it were 100 a month for all and maybe 1000 for a year if paid up front? Maybe with a stronger up front like 500 the first time? Use your own numbers. 500 and then 100 a month is a lot easier than 1200 a year.

          I will be doing MUCH more developement beginning in Feruary than I have ever done in my life. I have been solicited a number of times recently to make web pages and stronger desktop apps. Nothing I have been asked to do is where I would need the subscription plan. Maybe it will come.

          Remember, we are buying tools from alpha. A good to top mechanic in a dealership has a 60,000 to 150,000 investment in tools(usually Snap-On) to be able to do his/her job. The more tools(bought smart) he has, the more he can do quicker. The get paid by a flat rate hour, not by the hour. If they can do a 4 hour job in 1 hour, they get paid for all four. Same with us!

          How much have we invested in our tools to make 50 - 120 per hour? Most mechanics make in the area of 25.00 per flat rate and have to work a very firm schedule with deadlines.

          Just my 2 cents worth. You can price as you wish, we can pay or move own as we wish. I have had to add outside tools because I cannot do all I want in alpha and they are not included in the service packs. I don't expect they ever will be. Most alpha users don't need them.

          Alpha, please be carefull about taking away from your product and then bringing it back as a service pack? Not real good business!

          edit: By the way, I retire from 53 years in the auto industry next month 1/11.
          Dave Mason
          [email protected]
          Skype is dave.mason46

          Comment


            #50
            Re: New subscription plan, leaves room for improvement. (imho)....

            Originally posted by madtowng View Post
            1. Detailed, accurate documentation. A lot of the questions here could be answered with decent documentation. If a feature (command, code, whatever word you want to use) was added in a previous but no longer supported version, rewrite the documentation as it pertains to version 10.5 or 11.
            Originally posted by forskare View Post
            Alpha really needs to clean up a few areas such as the documentation short comings as mentioned earlier in this thread.

            There also are many properties on various objects which either don't work or are unnecessary. I've had some interesting discussions about this and Alpha needs to clean that up as well.
            kenn
            I agree 100% with the above.

            Comment


              #51
              Re: New subscription plan, leaves room for improvement. (imho)....

              We don't know what is happening behind the scenes. Maybe Alpha knows that most people will upgrade? Maybe the notice that very few users are still on V9 or V8 and that most are on V10? Maybe they are testing these new corporate customers who are know that there is a savings for them compared to other platforms?

              I have not asked the people at Alpha but I don't think they will have a problem with my taking a survey and forwarding the results to them.

              If you are interested in getting your 'voice' heard by letting Alpha know what you need, fill out this survey.

              The Unofficial Alpha User's "Subscription" Survey
              Thanks,

              Roderick Silva
              [email protected]

              About Me: rodericksilva.com
              Twitter: rodericksilva

              Comment


                #52
                Re: New subscription plan, leaves room for improvement. (imho)....

                In my hunmble opinion, This is not the thread to say what alpha should be doing in the software, rather suggesting what they could do to make their new pricing scheme palatable to all consumers. Me, You and Others.

                They NEED the corporate and they NEED the little guy too.

                We all have our needs and some of that is based on what we can afford. I will be hard pressed this next year with a set income to fork over what they ask. It will come as time goes by that more funds will be available. I intend to spend what I make above the set income to advance my current tool set. Maybe others are in the same situation, don't know. I will stick with alpha tools as the base, but other tools are just as needed and some more needed. needed sometimes = desires LOL.

                Try to use empathy on both sides?



                .
                Dave Mason
                [email protected]
                Skype is dave.mason46

                Comment


                  #53
                  Re: New subscription plan, leaves room for improvement. (imho)....

                  The survey is only focused on Subscription plans.
                  Thanks,

                  Roderick Silva
                  [email protected]

                  About Me: rodericksilva.com
                  Twitter: rodericksilva

                  Comment


                    #54
                    Re: New subscription plan, leaves room for improvement. (imho)....

                    I think we all agree it is on suscription plans. If the money from subscriptions looks too good, then will straight sales drop or become higher?

                    It is just business that if more and more people purchase a certain way, then it slowly becomes the obsession for business to emphasize that direction and minimize efforts the other way.

                    I totally agree with subscription plans, seen it, done it, sold it, and more. The idea is for it to ba affordable to the little guy and the big one too. A lot needs to go into the planning other than what I have seen. A corporate user(large is going to need a plan where they may want several developement, several was and maybe 0.0 runtimes. That has to be planned and accounted for. The little guy may only need a developement and/or runtime? Who knows.

                    I would suggest
                    a sub for dev
                    a sub for was
                    a sub for r/t
                    a combined sub
                    a multi sub plan for say 5 of each or all

                    Basically, I do not think from what has been written that the alpha board has done all the necessary research.

                    I have had a lot of success selling a cheap salesman's crm to use in a dealership for 99.00 that got picked up by the dealer at a sustantially higher figure. Yes, I do have some on monthly subscription that if not paid, shuts off for lack of the updates.


                    .
                    Dave Mason
                    [email protected]
                    Skype is dave.mason46

                    Comment


                      #55
                      Re: New subscription plan, leaves room for improvement. (imho)....

                      As we all know, looking back on recent history, Alpha Software has basically been a subscription product anyway.
                      Once the new version is out, the previous version gets no attention.

                      The point I have been trying to make is that as the price goes higher, we should expect a higher level of service, and should have some idea of what improvements we will get for the money spent.

                      Are there any more feature packs that will be rolled out for version 10.5 (I paid to get all version 10.5 feature packs that will work with version 11). If not, when will version 11 be coming out ?
                      Gregg
                      https://paiza.io is a great site to test and share sql code

                      Comment


                        #56
                        Re: New subscription plan, leaves room for improvement. (imho)....

                        Not only will you expect a higher level of service but the corporate customers Alpha seems to be courting will demand it.

                        You don't become a corporate software product by just charging like one, you need to back it up with service. Methinks Alpha might be getting a bit ahead of itself in this regard: as you point out, there are way too many little problems I need to f**k around with every two seconds, problems that aren't addressed in the documentation or on the Boards (care to consider the difference between confirmpassword and confirm_password?).

                        I went with Alpha because I found it to offer a good benefit/cost ratio for the development I do. With this new pricing (and I include price levels as well as structure) people will vote with their wallets as to whether it still does, for them.

                        Comment


                          #57
                          Re: New subscription plan, leaves room for improvement. (imho)....

                          Originally posted by DaveM View Post

                          Remember, we are buying tools from alpha. A good to top mechanic in a dealership has a 60,000 to 150,000 investment in tools(usually Snap-On) to be able to do his/her job. The more tools(bought smart) he has, the more he can do quicker. The get paid by a flat rate hour, not by the hour. If they can do a 4 hour job in 1 hour, they get paid for all four. Same with us!

                          How much have we invested in our tools to make 50 - 120 per hour? Most mechanics make in the area of 25.00 per flat rate and have to work a very firm schedule with deadlines.
                          Dave the mechanic only gets $25 because he works for a dealer to keep this in perspective you would only get $25 per hour if you were lucky programing for some company The mechanic always has the opportunity to go out on their own Caterpillar in my area gets $118 per hour for a mechanic with his own tools There is the key Caterpillar has all of the overhead and insurance

                          I agree Alpha pricing has not been too bad so far but what is coming and don't forget to add all of the version pricing together I have spent approx $3500 on Alpha so far Let's see what I forgot oh had to update my server so app server would run because of .NET 4 current updates of computers and operating systems advertising and web space all office expense plus many things I didn't list Mechanic may collect several thousands in tools over their life but Alpha is just like the Snap-on dealer coming to sell and collect every week

                          my 2 cents - was spent on A5 version 10.5

                          Comment


                            #58
                            Re: New subscription plan, leaves room for improvement. (imho)....

                            Gregory,

                            Dave the mechanic only gets $25 because he works for a dealer to keep this in perspective you would only get $25 per hour if you were lucky programing for some company The mechanic always has the opportunity to go out on their own Caterpillar in my area gets $118 per hour for a mechanic with his own tools There is the key Caterpillar has all of the overhead and insurance
                            Caterpillar/dealers in general also supply the heavy tools that really cost a lot.

                            Been there and done that. When a mechanic opens a shop with all the overhead, he simply raises his 25.00 to 33.00 per flat rate hour actual income. The going rate for independent shops around here is 70.00 per flat rate hour. Overhead takes the rest including parts profits. Caterpillar is charging plenty in your area! Most dealers in florida(I work for one) have a charge per hour of 88.00.

                            As a programmer charging 100.00(as a base), we also have our expenses and would be happy with 33.00 net hour. Where we can come out is when we can re-use code and tools from past jobs in a new job. As a programmer working for some company(did that too), you do not get flat rate hourly pay. You get a flat pay of how many hours worked. MUCH DIFFERENT! As a mechanic working 44 hours a week, I got paid for 120 hours of work performed. Never did that as a programmer.

                            I have invested over the past 25 years, some 30,000 in programming tools and equipment for testing. I had over 100,000 in tools to repair cars(still have some of them). The old car tools are mostly still good. The old programming tools are pretty much not good for anything. Can't even get sold at a garage sale. LOL.

                            As a programmer, working for someone else today, I could possibly make 70,000+-. As a mechanic today, maybe 70,000+-. Selling cars with hardly any tools, about 105,000+-. That is the reason I have sold cars for so long.

                            Now that I am retiring from the sales, programming is where I am going. It will be as an independent and not working for someone else on their terms. Different from most, I will(and have been) making software to sell to masses. Some apps will be small and some will be larger. Websites are for me(business) and family fun. It's a need to have several sites(all low hit sites) in my own office where I can quickly control, get information and be able to respond quicker.

                            I welcome the ability to go web and into ipads and such. That could be really good for all of us and seems timed about right. It does seem c# or something like that would be more suited due to size, but we will see.


                            Make sense to you?



                            .
                            Dave Mason
                            [email protected]
                            Skype is dave.mason46

                            Comment


                              #59
                              Re: New subscription plan, leaves room for improvement. (imho)....

                              I am not sure what direction this thread has taken but I cant resist. Alpha has a great product and I enjoy using the tools that have been given to us all to date

                              I purchased v10 back in october 2009 and if alpha offered a yearly subscription it would now have expired by 3 months now, and I am not sure how long before v11 is released, so if it takes 16 mths for a new version on a yearly plan! Which makes it not so attractive. So if you are in for two versions you are paying quite possibly 3 yearly subscriptions.

                              I will most likely continue to use Alpha but I am not seeing the value of paying upfront for software that does ??? more than my current version.

                              Oh and bye the way ask any mechanic if he buys a new set of tools every couple of years and throws the rest out, because my version 9 has not been used in a while.

                              I also bought a wrench from snap on 10 years ago to loosen a 5/8" bolt and it still works and if I break it snap-on will replace it, how does that compare to software?
                              Chad Brown

                              Comment


                                #60
                                Re: New subscription plan, leaves room for improvement. (imho)....

                                Originally posted by chadbrown View Post
                                I am not sure what direction this thread has taken but I cant resist. Alpha has a great product and I enjoy using the tools that have been given to us all to date

                                I purchased v10 back in october 2009 and if alpha offered a yearly subscription it would now have expired by 3 months now, and I am not sure how long before v11 is released, so if it takes 16 mths for a new version on a yearly plan! Which makes it not so attractive. So if you are in for two versions you are paying quite possibly 3 yearly subscriptions.

                                I will most likely continue to use Alpha but I am not seeing the value of paying upfront for software that does ??? more than my current version.

                                Oh and bye the way ask any mechanic if he buys a new set of tools every couple of years and throws the rest out, because my version 9 has not been used in a while.

                                I also bought a wrench from snap on 10 years ago to loosen a 5/8" bolt and it still works and if I break it snap-on will replace it, how does that compare to software?
                                I have lots of no longer supported versions of Alpha Software products.

                                versions 4, 4.5, 5,6, 7, 8, 9.

                                I expect that version 11 would have already been out had it not been for version 10.5 being released in May this year.
                                Gregg
                                https://paiza.io is a great site to test and share sql code

                                Comment

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