Alpha Video Training
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 31 to 43 of 43

Thread: Table Open Table structure

  1. #31
    Member
    Real Name
    Dave Mac Callum
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Johannesburg. South Africa
    Posts
    383

    Default Re: Table Open Table structure

    Hi Robert,

    Thanks for those pointers. Could do with all that I can get.

    One thing - I have never been able to introduce Aliases into my systems. I assume that they do work. Do I just need to persevere ?
    Dave Mac

    It's not so much what you don't know that gets you into trouble, but what you know for sure, that just ain't so. - Mark Twain.

  2. #32
    Member SNusa's Avatar
    Real Name
    Robert Tupper
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Northeast, USA
    Posts
    893

    Default Re: Table Open Table structure

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveM View Post
    Robert,

    you may want to check your naming of tables, fields, forms, etc. I for one, desperately try to keep everything to 8 letters and maybe 10 on some stuff. There is(or at least was) a problem with names getting shortened by the system sometimes.
    Yep, I've known about this potential for problems too, for quite some time. I've been thinking about that. But providing no alpha files are lost, I think the only existing real issue now is regarding index name lengths @ 10 max. (and staying away from .dbf memo fields)

    I'm definitely going to keep indexes at 10 max, and probably fields at 10 also. (I've known about the length concerns regarding tables and even fields.)
    But the 8 character length for tables, sets and especially for forms sure seems like a "blast to the past" and is truly limiting...... OUCH!

    ~I also know that it is imperative to make sure all field names in a given table are unique, within the first 8 characters.
    Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
    It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
    RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

  3. #33
    Member SNusa's Avatar
    Real Name
    Robert Tupper
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Northeast, USA
    Posts
    893

    Default Re: Table Open Table structure

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Mac Callum View Post
    Hi Robert,

    Thanks for those pointers. Could do with all that I can get.

    One thing - I have never been able to introduce Aliases into my systems. I assume that they do work. Do I just need to persevere ?
    I'm going to work with aliases shortly to see what I can do with them.... I'll get back to you here on that.
    (The thing I noticed while picking up a5 was that while learning..... A "bulletproof and quick disaster recovery plan sure does help.")

    I've actually been "learning a5" from the ground up. I think I finally have one heck of a solid foundation. At least on the desktop side.....
    Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
    It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
    RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

  4. #34
    "Certified" Alphaholic Ted Giles's Avatar
    Real Name
    Ted Giles
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    In the Wolds, Louth, Lincolnshire, UK
    Posts
    4,360

    Default Re: Table Open Table structure

    At risk of getting burned on this, I have 3 full versions of a Database;
    Development - this folder often holds multiple .zip files as well. It's no hassle to create a new .zip from the CP before carying out changes.
    Test - I try to create a test scenario or documented scripts for the more complex bits when testing. I try not to "wing it".
    Live - Ringfenced code from which a Build is created.

    Each is in a separate folder and named accordingly. Dev is rolled into Test, and Test is rolled into Live when the stage is complete.

    I also have a Deployed folder which has the RunTime builds by date and Version - also on the Menu or first screen.

    Finally, I generally put a BuildNotes Table in the database which I use to record significant events and changes which need to be done.

    Robert, I posted a rudimentary Data Dictionary in the Code Archive which you might find useful - or not.
    Ted Giles
    Example Consulting - UK
    .

    http://ec12.example-software.com//
    See our site for Alpha Support, Conversion and Upgrade.

  5. #35
    Member SNusa's Avatar
    Real Name
    Robert Tupper
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Northeast, USA
    Posts
    893

    Default Re: Table Open Table structure

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Giles View Post
    At risk of getting burned on this, I have 3 full versions of a Database;
    Development - this folder often holds multiple .zip files as well. It's no hassle to create a new .zip from the CP before carying out changes.
    Test - I try to create a test scenario or documented scripts for the more complex bits when testing. I try not to "wing it".
    Live - Ringfenced code from which a Build is created.

    Each is in a separate folder and named accordingly. Dev is rolled into Test, and Test is rolled into Live when the stage is complete.

    I also have a Deployed folder which has the RunTime builds by date and Version - also on the Menu or first screen.

    Finally, I generally put a BuildNotes Table in the database which I use to record significant events and changes which need to be done.

    Robert, I posted a rudimentary Data Dictionary in the Code Archive which you might find useful - or not.
    Hi Ted;

    Very interesting. I'm going to check that out. Thank you.
    One question about your "rolling process" ~ I presume you're manually copying the a5 files from one directory to another?
    Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
    It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
    RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

  6. #36
    "Certified" Alphaholic Ted Giles's Avatar
    Real Name
    Ted Giles
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    In the Wolds, Louth, Lincolnshire, UK
    Posts
    4,360

    Default Re: Table Open Table structure

    Yes Robert, I copy manually. It was always a plan to use SourceSafe or similar with CheckOut/CheckIn rules but never got that excited about it having used it with some big SQL/Sharepoint?Infopath jobs. It's a PITA.
    Having said that, I do use a checkout/checkin approach to a development when I take a laptop away to do some work away from my network.
    Ted Giles
    Example Consulting - UK
    .

    http://ec12.example-software.com//
    See our site for Alpha Support, Conversion and Upgrade.

  7. #37
    Member SNusa's Avatar
    Real Name
    Robert Tupper
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Northeast, USA
    Posts
    893

    Default Re: Table Open Table structure

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Giles View Post
    Yes Robert, I copy manually. It was always a plan to use SourceSafe or similar with CheckOut/CheckIn rules but never got that excited about it having used it with some big SQL/Sharepoint?Infopath jobs. It's a PITA.
    Having said that, I do use a checkout/checkin approach to a development when I take a laptop away to do some work away from my network.
    Ted - After reading your "solution to the problem" I wonder it is not a "built in" tool for a5. (automated moving with some sort of "checkout/checkin.") Your post reminds me of all the time I spent working with Dreamweaver / Ultradev years gone by.....


    This is way off topic, but I wonder if anyone here remembers Drumbeat 2000???
    It was a quirky yet incredibly capable RAD data driven web development tool originally owned by Elemental Software.
    I mastered that sucker, before it was bought by Macromedia and put out to pasture after acquiring it's developers.
    Went so far as to develop an online POS system (with a merchandise display gallery) using backend SQL with literally millions of parts online in multiple databases. (with automatic cross reference to in-stock inventory) ~ Very technical, very cool.....
    (Actually, it was because of that whole ordeal that it too me so many years to actually dive into / make the commitment to a5.)


    ~I had literally invested thousands of hours in Drumbeat E-commerce edition, and felt burned when the tool was discontinued!
    (It was a "sickening ordeal" for me, having made such a personal time investment in product that "got the ax.")
    Last edited by SNusa; 02-02-2012 at 10:14 AM.
    Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
    It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
    RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

  8. #38
    "Certified" Alphaholic MoGrace's Avatar
    Real Name
    Robin
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    3,685

    Default Re: Table Open Table structure

    Hi Robert,
    Why not create another adb in the same directory with a different name and add the old tables to that? Then you have a complete archive that you can load in addition to the working app to check the data.
    Robin

    Discernment is not needed in things that differ, but in those things that appear to be the same. - Miles Sanford

  9. #39
    Member
    Real Name
    Dave Mac Callum
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Johannesburg. South Africa
    Posts
    383

    Default Re: Table Open Table structure

    Quote Originally Posted by SNusa View Post
    This is an aging thread, but there is a trick that I'd like to share: Duplicating sets & forms, renaming them, and then dropping the originals. If you duplicate a set or table, you can then drop this duplicate from the database (when you first duplicate it, append the new set/table name with either version, or date).


    • The neat thing is that once dropped, you have a complete backup including their associated forms, browses, reports, etc.... (which are now dropped from the database ie: not seen in the control panel, yet may be restored at a later point. (and then renamed back to the original set / file names)
    • The coolest thing is that dropping the sets (and tables) also drop all the duplicate forms, browses, and reports etc. (So you don't end up with duplicates.) ~ And these dropped "companion" objects maintain their original names, even though the tables / sets were appended with versioning info.
    • The one BAD thing about using this method is none of the backup routines in Alpha backup these dropped objects.* (So you can't expect to recover them if you use the built in backup / zip options.)



    *The solution to this is to backup / zip the entire database (with sub-directories) using a third party zipping tool. (Or even the one built into windows) With this approach, you have everything, and will never worry about making irreversible changes. If you routinely backup sets & forms (duplicate/rename & drop) like this, you also protect yourself with backups of forms in the event they ever become corrupt beyond repair. (I've never experienced this, but years gone by, I've read about it here.)


    Note: Scripts (before editing / changing) in the code tab still have to be backed up somehow, because dropping tables has no effect on items in the code tabs.

    PS: Another thing that might help while working with live versus non-live data could be the use of aliases in system settings. (I haven't worked with them yet though.)

    Hi Robert,

    I sent you a reply to this one a couple of days age. It was in connection wit the use of aliases. I don't see that it is included in the sequence of these messages ? Did you receive it ? Not sure why it is not listed ?
    Dave Mac

    It's not so much what you don't know that gets you into trouble, but what you know for sure, that just ain't so. - Mark Twain.

  10. #40
    Member
    Real Name
    Dave Mac Callum
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Johannesburg. South Africa
    Posts
    383

    Default Re: Table Open Table structure

    Quote Originally Posted by SNusa View Post
    I'm going to work with aliases shortly to see what I can do with them.... I'll get back to you here on that.
    (The thing I noticed while picking up a5 was that while learning..... A "bulletproof and quick disaster recovery plan sure does help.")

    I've actually been "learning a5" from the ground up. I think I finally have one heck of a solid foundation. At least on the desktop side.....
    Hi Robert,

    I see you did receive and respond on mess #33. I obviously was not looking at all the messages on this one.

    Thanks.
    Dave Mac

    It's not so much what you don't know that gets you into trouble, but what you know for sure, that just ain't so. - Mark Twain.

  11. #41
    Member SNusa's Avatar
    Real Name
    Robert Tupper
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Northeast, USA
    Posts
    893

    Default Re: Table Open Table structure

    Quote Originally Posted by MoGrace View Post
    Hi Robert,
    Why not create another adb in the same directory with a different name and add the old tables to that? Then you have a complete archive that you can load in addition to the working app to check the data.
    Never thought of that. Another viable option! (Of course you would have to deal with the scripts separately here too.)

    BUT: On second though, Isn't there a problem doing this??? ~If you add the native .dbf database tables & sets to another database (in the same directory), you'll end up sharing all the associated browses, layouts and operations etc.... Right???

    (Unless, of course you first drop these from the other databases first. Without keeping separate directories I think using this method could be a "risky" proposition for most.) ~ I could see how it could work though.

    Actually, the more I think about this method, the more I like it's potential. But the biggest problem is processing each table/set one by one, both in and out of the other database names. Now if you could highlight all of them at once (in the control panel) and duplicate / rename all with same versioning info & drop all the tables & sets in one swipe....... Your method would be interesting and worth considering.

    Ted G's method is safer IMHO..... ~ I actually like it quite a bit. (You could even take his method further and have complete version branches in each of his three sub directories!) ~ Fast / Easy / Discrete data sets.... It gets the job done! All you have to do is copy and paste an entire directory....
    Last edited by SNusa; 02-03-2012 at 12:57 AM.
    Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
    It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
    RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

  12. #42
    "Certified" Alphaholic MoGrace's Avatar
    Real Name
    Robin
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    3,685

    Default Re: Table Open Table structure

    I wouldn't prefer that method either, but you started with wanting to add or drop tables into the active app...
    Robin

    Discernment is not needed in things that differ, but in those things that appear to be the same. - Miles Sanford

  13. #43
    Member SNusa's Avatar
    Real Name
    Robert Tupper
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Northeast, USA
    Posts
    893

    Default Re: Table Open Table structure

    Quote Originally Posted by MoGrace View Post
    I wouldn't prefer that method either, but you started with wanting to add or drop tables into the active app...

    Got ya! ~ You know what's odd though.... Wit these inherent A5 capabilities already built in.... I'm surprised Alpha hasn't made a few (simple) modifications to the backup & zip routines to turn them into a powerful "built-in versioning" solution.... They're 95% of the way there already, go figure! (As it is now, the built in [ALIAS] settings are pretty much useless, unless EVERYTHING is hand coded. ~ If I'm wrong, someone please correct me here! As it is, I'm very disappointed with what [ALIAS] settings actually do. (when compared to the expectations of what "I had hoped they might do")

    Consequently, I'd like to see a "Directory Re-Mapping" feature added in at the "root level" of the application, (in settings). ~And have the availability to switch "mapping" right from the a5 menu when you're at the control panel (with all other windows closed.) ~ To enable the user to switch between database versions. (Whether you were using "versioning" for revisions, or keeping multiple instances ie: dev / test / live / production / client etc.) ~ Like Ted G's method.
    Last edited by SNusa; 02-03-2012 at 04:09 PM.
    Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
    It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
    RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

Similar Threads

  1. Trying to update structure of table
    By markusjd in forum Alpha Five Version 5
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 03-23-2007, 12:46 PM
  2. Import table structure
    By Al Buchholz in forum Archived Wishlist
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-17-2005, 08:26 PM
  3. table structure changes
    By Sonia Sidhwaney in forum Web Application Server v6
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 06-29-2005, 03:20 AM
  4. display table structure
    By Michaela Koblitzek in forum Alpha Five Version 4
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 07-04-2001, 08:29 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •