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Recovering 'Access' user - New to Alpha Five

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    Recovering 'Access' user - New to Alpha Five

    Not only am I new to Alpha Five, I'm new to this forum - so hopefully I'm posting in the correct place.

    After approximately 5 hours in the vid turorials and playing around with Alpha Five V10.5 - I'm realizing what a monolithic garbage heap Access is (10 years spent in Access). But I have some general questions about Alpha.

    1. In Access, it's pretty critical to set up your tables and relationships correctly and with careful planning. In Alpha, this seems less critical. I realize grouping data accurately is vital...but in general, is this an accurate assessment?
    2. I'm embarking on a massive project in Alpha that may (if successful) span an entire industry. I'm concerned about building the tables in the native .dbf - does version 11 allow you to build the tables as SQL? OR - are .dbf tables sufficient for large projects (with memo fields)?

    Appreciate any input you Alpha Fivers have to offer.

    #2
    Re: Recovering 'Access' user - New to Alpha Five

    1. In Access, it's pretty critical to set up your tables and relationships correctly and with careful planning. In Alpha, this seems less critical. I realize grouping data accurately is vital...but in general, is this an accurate assessment?

    Yes. I think you are right on target. Alpha is very flexible and very forgiving.


    2. I'm embarking on a massive project in Alpha that may (if successful) span an entire industry.

    Yow! I love that kind of talk.


    I'm concerned about building the tables in the native .dbf - does version 11 allow you to build the tables as SQL? OR - are .dbf tables sufficient for large projects (with memo fields)?

    This is a more complex question. Sure, you can use SQL. If you are doing web, definitely use SQL if you are starting out. Desktop generally requires active/passive link tables for SQL. OTOH, dbf is quite powerful given Alpha's vast array of dbf specific functions and methods. Memo fields (and indexes) are a dbf liability not limited to Alpha. Memo fields, if handled correctly, are not a liability. Indexes can be more problematic if you have heavy use.

    Bottom line, if you can go web, go web - and go SQL. If desktop, try SQL w. active link tables. Remember, you CAN build a desktop (intranet/LAN) app using Alpha web components - which makes the switch to web later on, fairly painless.
    Peter
    AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

    [email protected]
    https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


    Comment


      #3
      Re: Recovering 'Access' user - New to Alpha Five

      Extremely kind of you - very helpful. I can see this message board is going to be an essential resource. Don't wish to take advantage of your time, but your response brought up another question or two. You mention that indexes are a liability not limited to Alpha - but I thought (based on my Access background) that indexs are mandatory in creating cross-table data integrity...is there another way that I've never heard of?

      My understanding thus far is this (and I do intend to make this beast web-based):
      1. I can create a desktop app that links to a web-based back-end through active linked tables.
      2. I can create the primary web-application based on either .dbf or SQL...SQL perferred, but I'll have to see how much V11 helps me with SQL (alternative is to hire a developer for this portion).
      3. V11 will allow me to create native-like apps for iPad's and mobile devices (and they should somehow link to the web-based back end).

      Am I way out in left field here? Or is this all .T.?

      Thanks again for your time.

      Mark

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Recovering 'Access' user - New to Alpha Five

        You mention that indexes are a liability not limited to Alpha - but I thought (based on my Access background) that indexs are mandatory in creating cross-table data integrity...is there another way that I've never heard of?

        Indexes are part & parcel of dbf. Sometimes people report index corruption in dbs with manu simultaneous users.

        1. I can create a desktop app that links to a web-based back-end through active linked tables.

        That's true if you are using SQL. If dbf, then the web server & LAN server need to be the same machine.

        2. I can create the primary web-application based on either .dbf or SQL...SQL perferred, but I'll have to see how much V11 helps me with SQL (alternative is to hire a developer for this portion).

        If you have Access tables, you can use them as is - as a SQL construct - meaning using an AlphaDAO connection string.

        3. V11 will allow me to create native-like apps for iPad's and mobile devices (and they should somehow link to the web-based back end).

        I have yet to see any documentation on mobile app functionality - so I don't know.
        Peter
        AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

        [email protected]
        https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


        Comment


          #5
          Re: Recovering 'Access' user - New to Alpha Five

          Thank you again Peter...slowly but surely I'm beginning to grasp. Received V11 today...not ready to delve into the mobile functionality...but it's there.

          Mark

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Recovering 'Access' user - New to Alpha Five

            Mark, for what it's worth, you will have some "unlearning" to do when chaging from Access to Alpha.
            What I've found is that there are so many ready made features and functions in Alpha that you might think that you are "cheating".
            May I suggest that, before embarking on hard coding, you look to see if there is a feature which will do what - and indeed show you working code - without you having to write it.
            I have likened Alpha to Duplo, while Access is more Lego.
            The Forum is often a life saver - you will see some pretty nifty responses to developers in trouble.
            And don't worry about asking "silly questions" - there is no such thing. (But often easiest to answer )
            See our Hybrid Option here;
            https://hybridapps.example-software.com/


            Apologies to anyone I haven't managed to upset yet.
            You are held in a queue and I will get to you soon.

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Recovering 'Access' user - New to Alpha Five

              Thank you Ted - you're right on target. I'm finding that my experience with Access is severely interfering with learning Alpha. I think I would have been better off to be completely new to database development. I've been completely bamboozled working with Sets versus relationships in Access...I'll eventually get my head straight, but definately been causing me some heartache.

              Appreciate your encouragement.

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Recovering 'Access' user - New to Alpha Five

                Another thing youl will find fun to work with is the Set concept of variability.
                Takes up no resources like the Logical Relationships you have to build in other dev tools, and you can turn them upside down for different purposes!
                Sets are indeed a very powerful way of displaying data and the links are made when the Set is invoked.
                If you need an example of anything, please ask on the Forum - someone will post one so you can see how they do it.
                See our Hybrid Option here;
                https://hybridapps.example-software.com/


                Apologies to anyone I haven't managed to upset yet.
                You are held in a queue and I will get to you soon.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Recovering 'Access' user - New to Alpha Five

                  Mark, if you are truly going to span an industry, I would use SQL as much as possible, for future scalability. I would skip DBFs completely, even Active-Link Tables

                  You can start by working with the Access databases that you've been using for 10 years. Later on you can use the Microsoft upsizing wizard to take them to SQL Server; all you'll have to change in your Alpha application is the connection string. Use a named connection string to keep that completely encapsulated, and to allow you to publish to different targets that use different databases.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Recovering 'Access' user - New to Alpha Five

                    Welcome fellow Recovering 'Access' user. there is a lot of unlearning to do and if you are doing Web apps then you have to make the double jump there is a LOT of new things to lean, not all just Alpha Five things but Web things. I am trying to port a complex App over from Access to Alpha Five and the road is long and hard and full of lots of potholes but most of them self-dug :)
                    Enjoy Alpha Five is awesome and a welcome change from Access. Not that I hate Access , in fact 80% of my time is still spent in Access but for moving to the web/mobile world Alpha is AWESOME!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Recovering 'Access' user - New to Alpha Five

                      If I can get the foundation right (scalable and efficient), it very well could become the dominant tool in my industry. This is why I'm spending as much time as I can to make sure the foundation is laid correctly from the start. It's a relatively small industry - if all goes well, I could expect anywhere from 1,000 to potentially 3,000 users a couple years into it. I estimate a range of 2,500 to 3,500 new records per day.

                      Ok - so if I understand mheller correctly - I can just use a connection string to my existing Access tables and build the Alpha web application from there? Then, when all is well in the world, do the upsizing and change the connection string. What's the alternative to a "named connection string" (to make sure I'm understanding)? Do I use the relationships in Access tables - or create sets from the linked tables?

                      Kiwibruce - you're not kidding. If I could get 'Access' out of my head, I think I'd be doing a lot better with Alpha. As it is, I find myself overcomplicating things because I stubbornly try to impose steps required in Access. Do you find that you can (after all the potholes) create a front end in Alpha Web apps that looks as good as desktop forms or Access forms? I got pretty good at Access forms and had some nice and easy user interfaces. Haven't gotten far enought along in Alpha to know whether I can get there with the web apps.

                      Thanks again to all who have responded - this forum is a jewel.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Recovering 'Access' user - New to Alpha Five

                        mheller - I just answered my own question (or the Alpha help file did) on named connection strings. I can clearly see that is critical when you're working with quite a few tables in a connection...thanks for calling that out.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Recovering 'Access' user - New to Alpha Five

                          Originally posted by umashank View Post
                          Kiwibruce - you're not kidding. If I could get 'Access' out of my head, I think I'd be doing a lot better with Alpha. As it is, I find myself over complicating things because I stubbornly try to impose steps required in Access. Do you find that you can (after all the potholes) create a front end in Alpha Web apps that looks as good as desktop forms or Access forms? I got pretty good at Access forms and had some nice and easy user interfaces. Haven't gotten far enough along in Alpha to know whether I can get there with the web apps.

                          Thanks again to all who have responded - this forum is a jewel.
                          So far my answer is ... no but that is because I have not invested enough time in learning CSS and working with the A5W page layout side of things.
                          That is what I mean by the double jump you have to do. Alpha Five does an awesome job of shielding you from all the AJAX stuff and a lot of the web stuff but if I had one complaint it would be that I would like to see more out of the box interface / styles built in. Hard to explain. I think I know what you mean, after some 15 years of building Access Apps I can now build very professional and elegant interfaces. I think the new Dialog in V11 will help things along but I have found that the path from Access to A5 is a case of 'swings and roundabouts' there are many things I miss from Access but then they are on the whole outweighed by the power and ease of use of Alpha Five.
                          Bruce
                          Last edited by kiwibruce; 10-18-2011, 02:44 AM.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Recovering 'Access' user - New to Alpha Five

                            Does anyone here happen to know if charts (pie, line graphs) can be put on web components? I'm using V11 if that makes any difference. I don't need to know the "how," just if it's doable. I've got a long way to go before I get to the graph parts.
                            Thanks in advance.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Recovering 'Access' user - New to Alpha Five

                              Originally posted by umashank View Post
                              Does anyone here happen to know if charts (pie, line graphs) can be put on web components? I'm using V11 if that makes any difference. I don't need to know the "how," just if it's doable. I've got a long way to go before I get to the graph parts.
                              Thanks in advance.
                              Look at Alternate views in the Grid, one option is Charts I think

                              Comment

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