Installing V11 requiring .net4 and c++

[Michael Humby]

Hi All,

There has been another thread on this subject that has somehow lost its way and given the subject a bad name so I would like to start this new thread that focuses on the core subject of automatically installing V11 Runtime apps from a CD or download using a third party installer

We are not looking at a manual install this is not the problem, our aim is to prepare an install.exe that can be shipped on a CD or as a download that does not require any user PC knowledge or input. This has been pretty straight forward in the past but now we must introduce the .net4 and c++ stuff so until I can automate this I must hold back on shipping the later Runtime versions of V10.5 and V11.( DaveM seems to have a solution but has not yet applied it successfully)

I am presently considering a method to install both a dummy app with the older V10 engine that will run with or without .net4 together with the real app and V11 engine, then use xbasic within the dummy V10 app to check if .net4 and c++ exists and force the user to load if necessary then overwrite the shortcut .startup so that future starts will apply the V11 engine and make the V10 engine redundant. Hopefully the user then will only need a 'yes or no' dialog decision to install .net and c++ if indeed it is required. To achieve this I would need to know the xbasic to detect .net 4 or c++ existance, can any one help.

Michael
www.instantnurserymanager.co.uk

[Ted Giles]

Re: Installing V11 requiring .net4 and c++

Given Selwyn's comments, which I thought were pretty clear Mike, have you tried;

Copy the V11 Runtime Instalation Pack to the CD - you may need to copy the Patches as well.
Use the A5 Installer to create the Files Only for implementation.

Create an Autoexec (in the old days - a Batch File) to run the RT install, followed by the Application.
This should have the effect of installing C++ and .Net4, followed by the app.

I don't have V11 yet as I remain unconvinced of its value in the DT arena, but that's what I'd ry.

[Michael Humby]

Re: Installing V11 requiring .net4 and c++

Ted,

V11 seems to be far 'snappier' and the desktop apps can now show the better new charts (we currently show Google charts that are a bit basic) are the main reasons for moving to V11 in my case.

I don't think your suggestion would work for me, it would mean two installs one for the Runtime and then another for the normal third party install and be too complicated for a user downloading our system or running from a CD. I really need someone to help me with the Xbasic to check if .net4 and/or c+++ already exists, I can then do the rest.

I need help creating the Xbasic to check the following and give me a Yes/No if .net4 already exists, I can then create a script that will more user friendly and require zero user input when loading a V11 application

item: Get Registry Key Value
Variable=DOTNETFULL
Key=SOFTWARE\Microsoft\NET Framework Setup\NDP\v4\Full\
Default=NotFound
Value Name=Install
Flags=00000100
end
item: Get Registry Key Value
Variable=DOTNETCLIENT
Key=SOFTWARE\Microsoft\NET Framework Setup\NDP\v4\Client\
Default=NotFound
Value Name=Install
Flags=00000100
end

I can easily check using the 'regedit' on my own Pc's but i want Xbasic to tell me if it exists.

Michael
www.instantnurserymanager.co.uk

[Finian Lennon]

Re: Installing V11 requiring .net4 and c++

Michael:

You can use the registry.sys_get() function so that

Netval = Registry.sys_get("HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\NET Framework Setup\NDP\v4\Full\Install")

and

netval2 = Registry.sys_get("HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\NET Framework Setup\NDP\v4\Client\Install")

If you look at those registry keys you will see that you can also get the install path among other information.

[Michael Humby]

Re: Installing V11 requiring .net4 and c++

Finian

Many thanks, simple as that. All i need now is to find where c++ is stored in the Registry.

I can then write a script in v10 (prior to .net being required) that will automate the .net and c++ check and install, hopefully i can post this script so that other users can do the same.

Michael

[Michael Humby]

Re: Installing V11 requiring .net4 and c++

For anyone that might be interested this is a simple way to check if .netv4 exists and gives you a simple method of instructing the user from within the Alpha system as against trying to force it in your 3rd party install program.

'If your 3rd party installer loads both a v10.5 runtime engine (prior to the version of v10.5 that requires dot.net changes) and also the v11 runtime engine
'Your shortcut could then open the v10 engine with a dummy application
'The following could easily be present in the autoexec of the v10 Dummy application
'So if .netv4 exists it simply closes and switches to the v11 engine
'if it does not exist then forces the user to install .netv4
'You would have complete control of the user input from within Alpha instead of your installer
'This would be a one-off operation and afterwards the v10 engine would be redundant
'the user would then automatically be using the v11 engine
'It assumes that a copy of Microsoft 'dotNetFx40_Full_x86_x64.exe' exists in your v10runtime folder


Dim Netval as c
Dim path as c
path=a5.Get_exe_Path()
Dim Dotnet as c
dotNet = "dotNetFx40_Full_x86_x64.exe"
Netval = Registry.sys_get("HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\NET Framework Setup\NDP\v4\Full\Install")
msg1="The system has detected that you do not have Microsoft .net4 installed"
msg2="Please follow the Microsoft instructions to load .net4"
'etc etc

if netval <> "1" then
ui_msg_box("Note",msg1+chr(10)+msg2)
sys_open(path+chr(92)+dotNet)
else
ui_msg_box("Note",".netv4 already installed!")
'type in your own else instruction here!
'so forcing the user to quit v10 and automatically reopen using your v11 engine shortcut
end
end if

Michael

[Keith Hubert]

Re: Installing V11 requiring .net4 and c++

Nice one Michael.

Do you have the code that would then ask the user if they want to download and install the DotNet, if it is not there?

[Michael Humby]

Re: Installing V11 requiring .net4 and c++

Keith,


If you read again you will see the 'Sys_open .......' line does this, it assumes that you ship the Microsoft 'dotNetFx40_Full_x86_x64.exe' in the V10runtime folder

Hopefully, this will simplify 3rd part installs since it can be very difficult to manipulate the user action with the installer.

Michael

Michael

[Keith Hubert]

Re: Installing V11 requiring .net4 and c++

Hi Michael,

Cant this be part of the Bootstrap?

[Michael Humby]

Re: Installing V11 requiring .net4 and c++

Keith,

I don't see how or why, the point of this install method is because V11 engine will not run, full stop unless .net4 is installed first so nothing to do with networking.

Michael
www.instantnurserymanager.co.uk

[DaveM]

Re: Installing V11 requiring .net4 and c++

With astrum, You can develope an install that conditionally installs .net4 and places your files and stuff. You can make and install to conditionally install your application files some where else. You can put one install inside the other if you want.

I did put a desire for installing c++ runtime and .net4 in the ideascale found at :
http://alphasoftware.ideascale.com/ and it has seven votes so far. The headline is Desktop - Alpha Installer - .net and c++

[DaveM]

Re: Installing V11 requiring .net4 and c++

This is a quote from alpha and probably works if you can run alpha without .net. It is done a bit different with astrum and much cleaner because astrum reads it for you. This would require 2 runtime installs and then run this in a bootstrap of the 1st install?

'If your 3rd party installer loads both a v10.5 runtime engine (prior to the version of v10.5 that requires dot.net changes) and also the v11 runtime engine
'Your shortcut could then open the v10 engine with a dummy application
'The following could easily be present in the autoexec of the v10 Dummy application
'So if .netv4 exists it simply closes and switches to the v11 engine
'if it does not exist then forces the user to install .netv4
'You would have complete control of the user input from within Alpha instead of your installer
'This would be a one-off operation and afterwards the v10 engine would be redundant
'the user would then automatically be using the v11 engine
'It assumes that a copy of Microsoft 'dotNetFx40_Full_x86_x64.exe' exists in your v10runtime folder


Dim Netval as c
Dim path as c
path=a5.Get_exe_Path()
Dim Dotnet as c
dotNet = "dotNetFx40_Full_x86_x64.exe"
Netval = Registry.sys_get("HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\NET Framework Setup\NDP\v4\Full\Install")
msg1="The system has detected that you do not have Microsoft .net4 installed"
msg2="Please follow the Microsoft instructions to load .net4"
'etc etc

if netval <> "1" then
ui_msg_box("Note",msg1+chr(10)+msg2)
sys_open(path+chr(92)+dotNet)
else
ui_msg_box("Note",".netv4 already installed!")
'type in your own else instruction here!
'so forcing the user to quit v10 and automatically reopen using your v11 engine shortcut
end
end if

[DaveM]

Re: Installing V11 requiring .net4 and c++

Michael,

I have my installer working great except the c++ runtime. Alpha has not gotten back to me on that one, but Selwyn seems to think they just run the c++ package anyways. They do not test for it. The one from astrum has not yet panned out on any other than 64 bit win7 and then I have reasons to doubt.

I am not going to worry about it and continue on.

[Chet Sapino]

Re: Installing V11 requiring .net4 and c++

Hi All,

There has been another thread on this subject that has somehow lost its way and given the subject a bad name so I would like to start this new thread that focuses on the core subject of automatically installing V11 Runtime apps from a CD or download using a third party installer

We are not looking at a manual install this is not the problem, our aim is to prepare an install.exe that can be shipped on a CD or as a download that does not require any user PC knowledge or input. This has been pretty straight forward in the past but now we must introduce the .net4 and c++ stuff so until I can automate this I must hold back on shipping the later Runtime versions of V10.5 and V11.( DaveM seems to have a solution but has not yet applied it successfully)

I am presently considering a method to install both a dummy app with the older V10 engine that will run with or without .net4 together with the real app and V11 engine, then use xbasic within the dummy V10 app to check if .net4 and c++ exists and force the user to load if necessary then overwrite the shortcut .startup so that future starts will apply the V11 engine and make the V10 engine redundant. Hopefully the user then will only need a 'yes or no' dialog decision to install .net and c++ if indeed it is required. To achieve this I would need to know the xbasic to detect .net 4 or c++ existance, can any one help.

Michael
www.instantnurserymanager.co.uk

You can do this whole thing with Astrum - 1). install the application files first out of your program folder to your install folder, 2). then the Runtime and all subfolders out of its folder over the top of your app install folder (make sure you set up Astrum to regsvr32 the appropriate runtime dlls that need registering. There are six of them: a5controls.dll, a5contexteval.dll, and 4 prefixed with "Codejok...dll"), 3. then the desktop shortcuts (Use the built-in alpha mini-installer to generate the shortcut), manuals, etc. and 4). then the .NET and the C++ (put these exe's in your main program sub-folder or in the main program folder itself so they are available when Astrum needs them).

Do you really care if the end user has .NET or the VS10 C++ installed and how do you know whether they are correctly installed? They will just overwrite the existing install or prompt for an overwrite/repair. You may want to instruct the user to do a repair if asked for to be sure the stuff is installed correctly. There are some command line switches available for the .NET and C++ exe's if I recall on Microsoft. You may be able to do a a silent install of either of these with an auto-overwrite.