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Application Vanishes Under Windows7

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    Application Vanishes Under Windows7

    We are still using V5 but are in the process of upgrading computers with new ones which use Windows7. We will be upgrading to V10.5 in the very near future. But last week and then again today, our main application was found missing altogether! With over 200 users, we had to rush to restore the system from backup.

    Basically, we have one small but essential application which everyone goes through first. Then there are many other applications which this "menu" of applications can call. None of the called applications have run into this problem (so far). I am well aware of the PDF driver problems associated with using V5 on Windows7. But what in the world can make an application totally disappear??? Might Alpha 5 be interfacing with the OS in some capacity so that it works fine with XP but not with Windows7?

    We have no clue as to the cause ... nor how to best investigate the matter (e.g. audit trails). Any ideas on the matter would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

    Steve

    #2
    Re: Application Vanishes Under Windows7

    Steve,

    Can you elaborate on what you mean by "... our main application was found missing altogether!" Missing from where, for example? (Deleted from the server? missing from a workstation? )

    In the process describe how the applications are installed, and compare the file locations on Win7 workstations with the file locations on XP workstations. When and how was the error discovered? Are the Win 7 machines running virtual XP mode? Or using the XP Compatability option? If not, why not?

    Yes, I think it entirely possible that an A5v5 app may behave differently under Win 7.
    Last edited by Tom Cone Jr; 12-13-2011, 07:28 PM.

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Application Vanishes Under Windows7

      Hi Tom,

      It was missing (or corrupted) from our server. Upon attempting to load the main app, the code library would be completely blank ... and the startup form would not even attempt to load. Most users run on shadow in runtime. While the setup has worked for weeks, only on these two occasions have we found the main app virtually missing. None of the other applications which are called have run into this problem.

      We were originally intending to upgrade to V10.5 before installing the new machines with Windows7. Some problems with getting the various applications upgraded and tested has delayed our version upgrade. Since this is but a temporary setup, we are not using the XP Compatibility option. We have over 230 users.

      I'll get more info on our setup later. Thanks for the quick reply.

      Steve

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Application Vanishes Under Windows7

        Steve,

        I'd forgotten how large and "complex" your application was. May not be able to offer much assistance. Have very little experience working with code libraries, and zero experience working with databases that open other databases.

        Having said that, I'd look first for clues on the server side. What was going on there on the two occasions the main app was trashed? Any chance Alpha might have been running some process which was interrupted by other processes running on the server?

        -- tom

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Application Vanishes Under Windows7

          Steve,

          Are any of your users using wireless connections? I ask because very infrequently I have had a networked application trashed by someone who lost connection. I think the issue has to do with what they do when reconnecting. Upon reconnection they are presented with the options about keeping local files, network files, etc. I don't remember the wording.

          If they have your database open and choose to keep local files and overwrite the network versions, say bye bye to the database definition (at least the .alm containing your code).

          Digging further, it may be they have Offline Files selected including your database and when they reconnect their version is overwriting the network version, by choice. Not just reconnecting to the network after a dropped connection.
          Last edited by Stan Mathews; 12-14-2011, 11:58 AM.
          There can be only one.

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Application Vanishes Under Windows7

            Tom,

            You DO have experience with "code libraries" ... I was just referring to the scripts and UDF's in the Code section of the Control Panel. When trying to get back into this main app, nothing was there - not even the autoexec script.

            Stan,

            No, we do not use wireless. But as old as our network wiring is, I sometimes wish we did consider going wireless. But that's an expense not currently on the table.

            In the end, I suppose that we will just manage to keep backups handy to make it easier to restore in the event that it disappears again. We may can go that route until we upgrade to V10.5 and hope that the problem is gone at that point. Thanks for your input.

            Steve

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Application Vanishes Under Windows7

              We ran into a similar problem years ago. One user would be running a script or UDF at the same time another user was compacting the database. When this happened we lost access to all of our scripts. To resolve this we had to restore the ALM and ALX files from backup. I turned on Windows file audit in order to track down user and time of day this was happening. To resolve this we stopped compacting databases.

              Here is a link to the thread I started when I ran into this problem.
              http://msgboard.alphasoftware.com/al...ht=alx+deleted
              Last edited by aschone; 12-14-2011, 01:37 PM. Reason: Added thread link
              Andrew

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Application Vanishes Under Windows7

                Andy,

                Thank you, but we were not compacting at the time. We only compact during overnight processing when nobody is on the system.

                Steve

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Application Vanishes Under Windows7

                  Originally posted by Steve Andrews View Post
                  I was just referring to the scripts and UDF's in the Code section of the Control Panel. When trying to get back into this main app, nothing was there - not even the autoexec script.
                  I am assuming that the ALM and/or ALX files are missing. Hence you having to restore from backup. This would explain why the code tab is empty. However you do not state what files it is you are restoring when you have encountered the problem. Clarification on what is "exactly" happening will go along ways to resolving the issue. A detail step by step of what files you are having to restore to fix the issue would be beneficial. Along with any additional steps you having to take to fix the issue beyond the file restore.

                  Alpha5 File Types
                  http://support.alphasoftware.com/alp...File_Types.htm

                  ALM - Stores all scripts, user defined functions, menus, toolbars, bitmaps, and import definitions used by more than one table.
                  ALX - Alpha Five uses the .ALX file to find a specific script, function, operation, setting, etc. that is stored in the data dictionary.


                  For the time being I recommend you turn on windows file auditing for the folders containing the files being deleted. The next time the issue occurs check your audit logs for the users who where accessing the logs. Then follow up with the users to determine what was taking place during that time. This will go a long way to resolving the issue.
                  Andrew

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Application Vanishes Under Windows7

                    When we fixed the problem, we restored the ALB, ALX, and ALM files. Whether all three were necessary (or just, say, two of them) I'm not sure. If it happens again, I may try replacing one file at a time to see if that tells us anythhing else about the problem.

                    Just restoring these files seems to do the job.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Application Vanishes Under Windows7

                      When you restored the 3 files where all 3 present in folder or where some missing?

                      Was there a file size change when comparing the restored files to what was there prior to the restore?

                      I would assume that the modify date was different between the restore files compared to the prior version, but it is an item to note the next go around.
                      Andrew

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Application Vanishes Under Windows7

                        Andrew,
                        Steve and I work together. What is happening is that the Dictionary files for the database are getting corrupted. They are still on the server, however the .alm file goes from 1000K to 6K in size, and as Steve said, all of our code is gone. The problem is that the library is used in ALL of our other databases as many of the functions are common and used everywhere. We are not sure exactly what is happening. Is it windows 7 talking to an NT 4 server? is it some user inadvertently clicking on the shortcut to the ver 10 application, but for some reason, not getting his drives mapped properly? DON"T KNOW. As Steve said, we're now keeping a "hot backup" of the database available and can be back up and running in minutes.
                        Tom

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Application Vanishes Under Windows7

                          Tom,

                          Just wondering and hoping someone else will chime in. Can the .alm file be set to read only without interfering with a live application? Just did some testing with AlphaSports and with it set to read only the application still seems to operate normally.

                          You can't create new anything new or edit anything on the code tab. To be expected.
                          All layouts are table or set based so they aren't affected.
                          Operations other than imports seem to be editable. (Imports likely stored in the .alm)
                          There can be only one.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Application Vanishes Under Windows7

                            Thanks, Stan,

                            Its worth a look, but I have an eerie feeling that someone is attempting to open the database using ver 10 instead if ver 5. We've modified the password on the shortcut for ver 10 so someone who knew the password can't get in again, we'll see what happens...

                            Tom

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