Alpha Software Mobile Development Tools:   Alpha Anywhere    |   Alpha TransForm subscribe to our YouTube Channel  Follow Us on LinkedIn  Follow Us on Twitter  Follow Us on Facebook

Announcement

Collapse

The Alpha Software Forum Participation Guidelines

The Alpha Software Forum is a free forum created for Alpha Software Developer Community to ask for help, exchange ideas, and share solutions. Alpha Software strives to create an environment where all members of the community can feel safe to participate. In order to ensure the Alpha Software Forum is a place where all feel welcome, forum participants are expected to behave as follows:
  • Be professional in your conduct
  • Be kind to others
  • Be constructive when giving feedback
  • Be open to new ideas and suggestions
  • Stay on topic


Be sure all comments and threads you post are respectful. Posts that contain any of the following content will be considered a violation of your agreement as a member of the Alpha Software Forum Community and will be moderated:
  • Spam.
  • Vulgar language.
  • Quotes from private conversations without permission, including pricing and other sales related discussions.
  • Personal attacks, insults, or subtle put-downs.
  • Harassment, bullying, threatening, mocking, shaming, or deriding anyone.
  • Sexist, racist, homophobic, transphobic, ableist, or otherwise discriminatory jokes and language.
  • Sexually explicit or violent material, links, or language.
  • Pirated, hacked, or copyright-infringing material.
  • Encouraging of others to engage in the above behaviors.


If a thread or post is found to contain any of the content outlined above, a moderator may choose to take one of the following actions:
  • Remove the Post or Thread - the content is removed from the forum.
  • Place the User in Moderation - all posts and new threads must be approved by a moderator before they are posted.
  • Temporarily Ban the User - user is banned from forum for a period of time.
  • Permanently Ban the User - user is permanently banned from the forum.


Moderators may also rename posts and threads if they are too generic or do not property reflect the content.

Moderators may move threads if they have been posted in the incorrect forum.

Threads/Posts questioning specific moderator decisions or actions (such as "why was a user banned?") are not allowed and will be removed.

The owners of Alpha Software Corporation (Forum Owner) reserve the right to remove, edit, move, or close any thread for any reason; or ban any forum member without notice, reason, or explanation.

Community members are encouraged to click the "Report Post" icon in the lower left of a given post if they feel the post is in violation of the rules. This will alert the Moderators to take a look.

Alpha Software Corporation may amend the guidelines from time to time and may also vary the procedures it sets out where appropriate in a particular case. Your agreement to comply with the guidelines will be deemed agreement to any changes to it.



Bonus TIPS for Successful Posting

Try a Search First
It is highly recommended that a Search be done on your topic before posting, as many questions have been answered in prior posts. As with any search engine, the shorter the search term, the more "hits" will be returned, but the more specific the search term is, the greater the relevance of those "hits". Searching for "table" might well return every message on the board while "tablesum" would greatly restrict the number of messages returned.

When you do post
First, make sure you are posting your question in the correct forum. For example, if you post an issue regarding Desktop applications on the Mobile & Browser Applications board , not only will your question not be seen by the appropriate audience, it may also be removed or relocated.

The more detail you provide about your problem or question, the more likely someone is to understand your request and be able to help. A sample database with a minimum of records (and its support files, zipped together) will make it much easier to diagnose issues with your application. Screen shots of error messages are especially helpful.

When explaining how to reproduce your problem, please be as detailed as possible. Describe every step, click-by-click and keypress-by-keypress. Otherwise when others try to duplicate your problem, they may do something slightly different and end up with different results.

A note about attachments
You may only attach one file to each message. Attachment file size is limited to 2MB. If you need to include several files, you may do so by zipping them into a single archive.

If you forgot to attach your files to your post, please do NOT create a new thread. Instead, reply to your original message and attach the file there.

When attaching screen shots, it is best to attach an image file (.BMP, .JPG, .GIF, .PNG, etc.) or a zip file of several images, as opposed to a Word document containing the screen shots. Because Word documents are prone to viruses, many message board users will not open your Word file, therefore limiting their ability to help you.

Similarly, if you are uploading a zipped archive, you should simply create a .ZIP file and not a self-extracting .EXE as many users will not run your EXE file.
See more
See less

Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conundrum

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conundrum

    co�nun�drum
    A confusing and difficult problem or question.
    1. a riddle whose answer is or involves a pun.
    b. a a question or problem having only a conjectural answer
    c : an intricate and difficult problem.
    You know I have talked about this issue of an expectation or target of zero bug tolerance in releases, well we really do have an issue here.

    Since the last official patch 4 bugs have surfaced, there is no question about it, they are bugs as listed in the Last Updated - Jan-19-2012 (Build 2371-3862) update.

    While it's great to have them found and fixed - the issue is the fixes are mixed in with development or experimental code called "the Pre-Release of Next Alpha Five V11 Update" - now if we need those fixes - we have this issue as advised, "you should not deploy this update to a production environment" - so now are are stuck between a rock and a hard place as they say..

    What I'd like to see is a release of the fixes quite a part from the pre-release, they are two different things in my view, I don't think developers should need to run the gauntlet to have there (as the advice says) just to have "buttons that had been placed in the Detail View would disappear" - to appear.

    The butterfly effect of these changes if very real - but then again so are the benefits of the advances made in the pre-release, what do you think?

    Pete.
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
    Albert Einstein, (attributed)
    US (German-born) physicist (1879 - 1955)

    #2
    Re: Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conund

    It is tempting to recommend that Alpha take a couple months off from developing new features and capabilities and to just test and fix what they already have. But, can you imagine the hue and cry on this board if they did? Stuff like "Is Alpha going out of business?" "Why isn't anything new coming out?" "The competitors have new stuff, why doesn't Alpha?" So, in this respect, Alpha is damned if they do and damned if they don't.

    The problem is bigger than that, however. Like our customers, I'm sure Alpha can't predict what we are going to do with their tools. Several times I've complained about bugs and the first response was "Why would you ever want to do that?" So, even if they did spend a few months just testing, we would still find creative ways to come up with unanticipated problems.

    The third issue is how many different versions can Alpha afford to support? Sure, I'd like to have a "bug fix" version separate from the "new code" version, but I don't see Alpha having the resources to maintain two separate versions. That's why, once 10 comes out, there are no more fixes in 9.

    The good news is, with a few exceptions like the Authorize.net issue, there are several ways to do anything in Alpha. So, if there is a bug in one way, just do it a different way until they get the bug fixed. I believe one of Alpha's greatest strengths, which goes unmentioned, is how quickly an application can be changed. I'm currently developing and supporting about 8 applications, and usually if a bug pops up that affects them, I can implement a work around in all of them in a couple days. That's also why I always install patches in my development versions so I can test them long before I update the production versions. We have all probably referred to a particular patch as "a good one" because it didn't introduce any new problems, and that's the patch we apply to our production sites. Other patches, we just skip.

    So, of course, I want Alpha's releases to be flawless just like I want my dog to stop barking at the UPS guy, but it's not going to happen. I love them both anyway.
    Pat Bremkamp
    MindKicks Consulting

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conund

      Why not follow the Mozilla (Firefox) development route.

      1. Stable release program (for those who have to have maximum stability)
      2. Aggressive release program (for those who need to be working with A5's latest features.)
      3. Clearly bracket this out in the notifications inside of the developer tool.

      Item 3 is important as I downloaded the newest release thinking it was just a patch when it was in reality the pre-release app.

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conund

        Peter, I can certainly appreciate your desire to have a patch released as soon as possible that only includes the specific bug fixes that you need. Unfortunately, this simply is not always possible. A large number of factors play into this, but at a high level it has to do with source code interdependencies what other changes/additions may have already been made to the Alpha code base.

        You are familiar with our patching history, so you know that sometimes we patch very quickly, while other times the patches are less frequent. In the interest of putting out an official patch with no new bugs - something that you yourself have been quite vocal about - this means that a fix may be delayed while new code is thoroughly tested, both internally by Alpha and externally by customers using prerelease patches.

        But whenever possible, we intend to release a patch with bug fixes as soon as possible. Like you've seen in the past, this can sometimes mean that a new patch comes out the very same day that a bug is reported. And sometimes a good deal of code has already been changed when a bug is reported, and that bug cannot easily be fixed without impacting the other code that has been changed. In these cases, the bug fix can either be released quickly with a higher probability of new bugs, or more slowly and with a greatly reduced probability of bugs. If you want the fix ASAP and can risk the new bugs, use a prerelease. If you cannot risk the new bugs, know that we are doing all that we can to test and release a stable official patch that fixes the known bugs without introducing new ones.

        Lenny Forziati
        Vice President, Internet Products and Technical Services
        Alpha Software Corporation

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conund

          Thanks for the response Lenny - great to see, I like Michael's Firefox model.
          Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
          Albert Einstein, (attributed)
          US (German-born) physicist (1879 - 1955)

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conund

            I think Michael's suggestion is essentially what we do. What Firefox calls their stable release is our official patch and their aggressive release is our prerelease patch. The stable/nightly release paradigm is very common and is what we are currently providing. But we are of course open to other suggestions.

            Lenny Forziati
            Vice President, Internet Products and Technical Services
            Alpha Software Corporation

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conund

              Interesting, Pete, that you say "run the gauntlet". I was just telling a friend that I keep feeling like I'm in some race to find a stable version of V11. Even if I decide to wait for an official patch to take care of some bugs I've encountered, then the official patch almost always introduces some new bugs (probably related to new features). I understand completely what Alpha is doing in their daily development to provide value to customers, but I keep finding myself having the urge to shout, "SLOOOW DOWN for just a week or so, and let me have a version that only has bug fixes since last release, and no new features that might introduce bugs of their own." I'm finding all the tools I need in V11, but have to keep getting latest version to fix bugs. I want to stop updating and just do developing...
              BY THE WAY, I REALLY LOVE ALPHA! GOOD JOB, GUYS! I can't imagine developing a product for developers...
              Carol King
              Developer of Custom Homebuilders' Solutions (CHS)
              http://www.CHSBuilderSoftware.com

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conund

                What I also find unusual (and frustrating) with the process why new feature packs etc. are being worked on when things like the dialog2 can't use the mapping and images, image uploads/downloads and more don't function in the core product.
                Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
                Albert Einstein, (attributed)
                US (German-born) physicist (1879 - 1955)

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conund

                  Bugs: no pain, no gain.

                  I am sure I have said this before, but I really don't understand what the complaining is about. I'd be much more worried if there were no bugs at all (no pain, no gain). I work with Alpha Five every single day, relentlessly. I don't think I have ever had a fit regarding bugs.

                  I find a workaround if needed, most often I just wait for a fix because it's here pretty quick. But the vast majority of the time they don't affect me so I never had a chance to care about it. If I have something useful to report, I turn in a bug report or other communication, or I work on something else. I don't sweat it at all. Sometimes my clients sweat it and make a fuss, but I find some way to take care of that.

                  I also do not put my problems ahead of anyone else's problem. E.g., my bug reports, feature requests and ideas are not not any more important than anyone else's. Because of that, they never become personal. I don't care what Alpha works on, what they choose to ignore, what they focus on; I mean I care a little bit, but not that much especially since it is out of my hands and I don't control what they do (although occasionally I know I affect what they do). I do care that they keep moving forward because I am riding their wave.

                  I totally disagree with a zero tolerance mindset. I disagree with it in my own household for the same reason I disagree with it generally in business. It stifles creativity, slows down the process, adds fear in to the equation, and is not possible anyway, as Lenny elegantly stated. I mean imagine Selwyn or Richard mandating there can never be any bugs in software releases, period (that is zero tolerance). We would never get another feature, period. Imagine me telling my kids they cannot make any mistakes. Some may disagree, but I think zero tolerance works neither in business nor in life. I live in a country that is applying zero tolerance in many areas...

                  The biggest problem I have (really) is keeping up with all of the new features. I mean I am really behind and it is embarrassing when performing mentoring that I have not touched some of the features that my clients are asking me about.
                  Steve Wood
                  See my profile on IADN

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conund

                    I have to agree (as a long time developer - short time in Alpha) with Steve's take on this... No pain, no gain.

                    So how do we make it less painful?

                    For those with low pain/bug tolerance: WAIT and don't install the bleeding edge version. Ruby on Rails does the same thing. If you have to have the latest - use Edge Rails. If not, use the stable version. BUT - you can't have "that latest feature" without the tradeoff....

                    Another thing that I've noticed - a lot of the information appears to be "tribal knowledge". The videos help A LOT... and yes documenting the crap out of everything would be a great idea, but it's tough to implement under the time pressure, etc. What about exposing some of the internal Alpha bug tracking info to us developers? I know that I for one, can't possibly keep up with stuff I don't hear about - but if I'm about to update a server I can sure check online for the latest issues list to make sure that I'm not walking into a KNOWN issue. As always, there are necessary trade-offs. If the Alpha gang are kind enough to publish these details - then we, as developers, must agree not to whiz and moan and gripe about what they publish. Effectively - if they give us the inside information - which helps us protect ourselves - then we have to be kind enough not to use that information against them....

                    Thoughts?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conund

                      I agree with Steve, too. Well said. And, Jeff, I think your idea of a detailed bug tracking info is great.... one that includes all the known bugs as they are discovered.

                      I have a very low tolerance for bugs as my Alpha app is a heavy accounting/ job cost/ etc app that several hundred home builders use daily to run their offices and jobs, produce loan requests, pay trade contractors, spot overages, produce financial statements, reconcile bank accounts, run payroll, share info with home buyers, etc. etc.. In other words, data displayed must be absolutely accurate (legally for these builders). And I will have a few hundred grids by the time I'm finished. So... when a bug occurs that impacts the display of that data accurately, I have to get the most recent release that fixes the bug. That always makes me nervous because I don't know what other bugs I might bring in and it is becoming almost impossible to test every grid for every possible thing that might have broken a grid that had been behaving previously.

                      This is not meant as an Alpha complaint.. just trying to figure out how to stop needing latest Alpha updates to fix bugs, and then hold still with one pretty clean version as I develop the core of the application. Once the core is developed and my customers are using it with no problems, then I would later have the luxury to get an update for new features and test everything before releasing. Just want to stop having to get the updates for awhile.
                      Carol King
                      Developer of Custom Homebuilders' Solutions (CHS)
                      http://www.CHSBuilderSoftware.com

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conund

                        AND, again, I LOVE ALPHA!!! I would absolutely recommend it to any MS Access developer as a way to migrate to a web app, and am very aware of how innovative, concerned, and hard working the Alpha developers are. Isn't it wonderful that we CAN communicate with them like this and that they do respond. There is no doubt in my mind that they are doing everything to give novice web developers like me every wonderful tool they can.
                        Carol King
                        Developer of Custom Homebuilders' Solutions (CHS)
                        http://www.CHSBuilderSoftware.com

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conund

                          I LOVE ALPHA FIVE TO but Steve - your view on a target of zero tolerance is fine
                          I mean imagine Selwyn or Richard mandating there can never be any bugs in software releases, period (that is zero tolerance). We would never get another feature, period. Imagine me telling my kids they cannot make any mistakes. Some may disagree, but I think zero tolerance works neither in business nor in life.
                          but can you Imagine Boeing accepting this update model on their flight software? IT needs controlled testing before release - what if there were a 100,000 users on this board right now, It's busy enough with just enough people to have a good sized party. Also, all I was asking is people's view on
                          Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates
                          I'm allowed to have the target of zero tolerance as an expectation or a dream and you yours. Good chat - thanks.

                          I also see Alpha have done an official UPDATE "The current Alpha Five Version 11 build is 2373_3862 (released on 20 JAN 2012 09:10 AM)" - which is fantastic to see so early, I will have a test run today. Pete.
                          Last edited by peteconway; 01-21-2012, 09:15 AM.
                          Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
                          Albert Einstein, (attributed)
                          US (German-born) physicist (1879 - 1955)

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conund

                            I'm jumping on the Jan 20 official update, too, Pete. Let's cross our fingers that we can sit with it awhile.
                            Carol King
                            Developer of Custom Homebuilders' Solutions (CHS)
                            http://www.CHSBuilderSoftware.com

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conund

                              Hope so.. looks OK so far.
                              Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
                              Albert Einstein, (attributed)
                              US (German-born) physicist (1879 - 1955)

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X