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Thread: Mysql or Sql Server to Native Alpha DBF

  1. #1
    "Certified" Alphaholic
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    Jetson Lilibeth
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    Default Mysql or Sql Server to Native Alpha DBF

    What is the main difference in using mysql or sql server as backend to native dbf? In Saving and retrieving data in particular, is alpha native dbf faster for the desktop app than using mysql or sql server? well, i have a bad experience in Ms access as the backend, I use active or passive link in Alpha five, but then undesirable behaviors came out when i tried using sets, but when i created the same table structure manually in alpha five in another alpha database, i get the desired results.Thank you!

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    "Certified" Alphaholic DaveM's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mysql or Sql Server to Native Alpha DBF

    sql(most any flavor) is great if you are going to go web at anytime. Dbf is great for desktop and a real good candiadte if you are going to send the app to others at some time. If I were going to build a web based app or were going to use a server and html type files on a lan with no future sales of the app, then sql. If I had thoughts of packaging my app for distribution, then dbf. I personally can get more done faster and access to data seems faster with dbf on a desktop.

    I am not knocking either one at all. Alpha does both very well in certain areas.
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    Default Re: Mysql or Sql Server to Native Alpha DBF

    I think your experience is a common one. Active link tables are OK by themselves but when linked into sets perform very poorly, making them, to my mind basically unusable. If others have had a different experience I'd love to hear about it and how the improvements were accomplished.

    The knock-on effect of this is that you can't build effectively usable forms to interface with the active-link tables/sets leaving you with the only option of creating xdialogs as your user interface. You can duplicate most form features in xdialogs fairly easily but getting to an xdialog with menus and toolbars etc is more complex and more effort than you may want to expend. With xdialogs, someone wanting to use MySQL or any other back-end database can embed all the SQL needed in xbasic code and have complete control over the back end. Of course you also have to learn the ins and outs of server database administration, but that's another story.

    The advantages of a MySQL over native dbf's are not that obvious, at least initially. In general, though, it's probably fair to say that the MySQL type databases scale better to hold very large numbers of records, can reliably embed image and other file types into their table structures giving a greater level of data security and, in general, can be made more secure than native DBF's can be.
    Finian

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    Default Re: Mysql or Sql Server to Native Alpha DBF

    Thank you Dave and Finian for sharing your Opinion, I really love to use native dbf's, The reason i asked was, if alpha five can be used to access and manipulate an sql server then it would be better because if a client wants to manipulate it in Visual Studio .net then it would be an advantage for them. But i will try if dbf's can also be possible to control in visual studio. Appreciate your help!

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    Default Re: Mysql or Sql Server to Native Alpha DBF

    Quote Originally Posted by Finian Lennon View Post
    I think your experience is a common one. Active link tables are OK by themselves but when linked into sets perform very poorly, making them, to my mind basically unusable. If others have had a different experience I'd love to hear about it and how the improvements were accomplished.

    The knock-on effect of this is that you can't build effectively usable forms to interface with the active-link tables/sets leaving you with the only option of creating xdialogs as your user interface. You can duplicate most form features in xdialogs fairly easily but getting to an xdialog with menus and toolbars etc is more complex and more effort than you may want to expend. With xdialogs, someone wanting to use MySQL or any other back-end database can embed all the SQL needed in xbasic code and have complete control over the back end. Of course you also have to learn the ins and outs of server database administration, but that's another story.

    The advantages of a MySQL over native dbf's are not that obvious, at least initially. In general, though, it's probably fair to say that the MySQL type databases scale better to hold very large numbers of records, can reliably embed image and other file types into their table structures giving a greater level of data security and, in general, can be made more secure than native DBF's can be.
    Alpha Five will be very very powerful if it can effectively create a reliable user interface based on sets in Other databases like MYSQL other than native dbf's.

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    Default Re: Mysql or Sql Server to Native Alpha DBF

    Quote Originally Posted by JetLi View Post
    Alpha Five will be very very powerful if it can effectively create a reliable user interface based on sets in Other databases like MYSQL other than native dbf's.
    http://msgboard.alphasoftware.com/al...l=1#post602225
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    Default Re: Mysql or Sql Server to Native Alpha DBF

    I read the post by Selwyn, but no cigar. I purchased the up-size genie and successfully upsized a small DBF application [1 set, 4 tables, and few records]. It's not only too slow to be practical, but embedded browses, and pop-up forms often do not update properly. I set a where clause on the parent table as Selwyn suggested, but it made no difference.

    Based on my experience, and on reading many posts by others who had the same outcome, it seems foolish to continue to defend active linked tables with sets. They simply do not work.

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    Default Re: Mysql or Sql Server to Native Alpha DBF

    So the conclusion is not to use SQL Server or MYSQL in a desktop app? although it can be BUT for speed and accuracy is greatly affected? The reason why I'm considering and will try to use alpha using sql server as the backend is that client already have existing sql server database and they want to add some more data entry on it since the previous programmer is asking for tooooo much price just for an additional data entry.Also, they want in the future to let others modify just in case i will also ask for higher price for a modification of their existing app.Which i think is of great advantage to them.

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    Volunteer Moderator Peter.Greulich's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mysql or Sql Server to Native Alpha DBF

    So the conclusion is not to use SQL Server or MYSQL in a desktop app? although it can be BUT for speed and accuracy is greatly affected?
    UNLESS you are willing to learn/write xdialog. Xdialog doesn't need active-link.

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    Default Re: Mysql or Sql Server to Native Alpha DBF

    Maybe there should be a thread on where to put the Do's and Dont's, Tips and tricks in different areas of alpha five development for alpha for beginners, intermediate as well as experts as reference today and in the future, so that we will be guided on how to accomplish things based on the previous experience of certified alpha developers. Issues like, "In a set, do not put too many tables to be a super set,It is not advisable to do all the data entry on all tables in a single form for multi-user, single user could be" or maybe "do not make your table names longer than 10 characters" or the one suggested by Peter, which is "TO BE ABLE TO HAVE A GOOD APPLICATION ACCESSING SQL SERVER YOU MUST LEARN XDIALOG SO THAT THERE ARE NO ACTIVE LINKS", "SETS ARE VERY POWERFUL IN NATIVE DBF BUT PROCEED WITH CAUTION IN SQL SERVER OR MYSQL",somethings like this will be of great help for beginners to learn alpha and be guided accordingly. this is just an opinion and I hope moderators will consider a thread title like TIPS and TRICKS and DO's and DONT's Archive.
    Last edited by JetLi; 03-11-2012 at 04:55 AM.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Mysql or Sql Server to Native Alpha DBF

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter.Greulich View Post
    UNLESS you are willing to learn/write xdialog. Xdialog doesn't need active-link.
    Peter, Quoting carclay "Based on my experience, and on reading many posts by others who had the same outcome, it seems foolish to continue to defend active linked tables with sets. They simply do not work. "
    Is it really proven that using active links in alpha to access sql server or mysql is very slow? Or, maybe we have not done the right thing? Please confirm. Thanks much!

  12. #12
    Volunteer Moderator Peter.Greulich's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mysql or Sql Server to Native Alpha DBF

    Quote Originally Posted by JetLi View Post
    Peter, Quoting carclay "Based on my experience, and on reading many posts by others who had the same outcome, it seems foolish to continue to defend active linked tables with sets. They simply do not work. "
    Is it really proven that using active links in alpha to access sql server or mysql is very slow? Or, maybe we have not done the right thing? Please confirm. Thanks much!
    JetLi,

    You should do some experimenting and see how it works for you. Then maybe you can teach all of us a thing or two. Suggestion, it may be wiser rather than use sets to use views as your active link tables.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Mysql or Sql Server to Native Alpha DBF

    Thanks Peter, before replying to the thread I tried coz it's not working for me, being a beginner, I thought that I have done something wrong that's why things are not working well when it comes to other backends like sql server, access and mysql. But for DBF's no problem.

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