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The importance of Alpha aware hosting

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    The importance of Alpha aware hosting

    I'm currently hosting with Arvixe, but am in the process of switching to webjogger. Why? Arvixe does maintenance without telling me, and when they do that, they shut down my Always Up, which shuts down my web site. It's just happened again. I got a call this morning from one of my builders saying the website had been down since sometime yesterday afternoon. I thanked him profusely for letting me know, hung up, then said many many many bad words.... and logged into the RDP to get things up and running again. Always Up will not protect you if somebody shuts it down!

    They also, as do many hosting services, use a special Control Panel thing, that uses IIS. So, when I call for technical support I have to argue with them about whether "free technical support" means they can say "but only if we can use our Web Panel".

    So - my advice to anybody starting up with Alpha Five is to use a hosting service that's familiar with Alpha Five. I started my webjogger account about a month ago (I'm using it to stage my website upgrade, will make the switch within the week). They not only installed and set up my WAS (I sent them my license number), but for a modest tech support fee they set up the 4 instances I needed, each with their own neatly packaged FTP login, where I only see what I need to see. I publish manually, and that sure does make it easier. Getting things set up with Arvixe was a bit of a nightmare. Every time we turned around that flippin' IIS was started and hogging port 80 again - and their tech support is only trained to use that web panel. I had selected them based on stellar reviews by web professionals, and their service is otherwise just lovely (when I made a really big mess at one point, they restored me from a backup without a hitch) - just not, imho, appropriate for any application not using IIS only. I kinda feel bad about naming them here, but we had a LONG talk about this the last time it happened, I was told to put a big not on the desktop, etc. I did. And - he said he'd put a note on the account. Anybody even taking half a second to look before doing anything would have known to either restart Always Up or to contact me before performing any actions. If there's a way to have Always Up always restart itself automatically, that might be good for folks to know. I'm not a professional programmer or even much of a computer whiz... And, once I told them how important it is, one would think that nice man at Arvixe would have said, "well, we can set it up that even with an automatic restart...". They didn't, it failed again, so I'm outta there.

    I know that Zebra Host also installs and configures the WAS, also makes sure Port 80 is available, and also doesn't do stupid things that take down A5 web sites. I'm sure there are other Alpha aware hosting services as well. And I've found that these don't cost any more, and often have Alpha Five specials. Maybe folks could post any others they are using and would recommend.

    So - I'm just throwing that two cents out there to help the next newbie.
    Wendy Welton
    Architect
    past & future Alphaholic - deliberately falling off the wagon!

    http://www.artformhomeplans.com/

    #2
    Re: The importance of Alpha aware hosting

    Hey Wendy, not sure what was going on at Arvixe, but AlwaysUp's whole raison d'etre is that it automatically starts up after a server crash or a reboot. Unless they just were manually killing it w. no reboot?
    Peter
    AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

    [email protected]
    https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


    Comment


      #3
      Re: The importance of Alpha aware hosting

      I agree, Alpha Five is not IIS and if someone else is going to touch your web server, they (and your Mentor) should know the difference.

      But, AlwaysUp DOES NOT NEED TO restart itself automatically - it does not need to be running at all because that's not how it works. AU allows you to create Services set to Automatic, Manual or Stopped for any number of executables. Once you have used AU to toggle a program to Startup=Automatic, that program will start automatically as a Service. AU does not need to be running.

      So maybe the Arvixe tech went to Services and stopped your instances of Alpha Five WAS? Or toggled them in AU to Startup = Stopped or Manual?
      Steve Wood
      See my profile on IADN

      Comment


        #4
        Re: The importance of Alpha aware hosting

        Originally posted by Steve Wood View Post
        I agree, Alpha Five is not IIS and if someone else is going to touch your web server, they (and your Mentor) should know the difference.

        But, AlwaysUp DOES NOT NEED TO restart itself automatically - it does not need to be running at all because that's not how it works. AU allows you to create Services set to Automatic, Manual or Stopped for any number of executables. Once you have used AU to toggle a program to Startup=Automatic, that program will start automatically as a Service. AU does not need to be running.

        So maybe the Arvixe tech went to Services and stopped your instances of Alpha Five WAS? Or toggled them in AU to Startup = Stopped or Manual?
        Originally posted by Peter.Greulich View Post
        ...Unless they just were manually killing it w. no reboot?
        I don't know what they're doing! So, I'm going someplace where I don't have to wonder. I tried having the conversation with them, and the result is another instance of a good 12 hours of the web site down without my knowing about it. Hence my advice to newbies to just go with a hosting service where you wont' have to wonder. I'm already signed up with webjogger and have my staging site 99% ready (got buried in my regular work, just... need.... a.... little.... more.... time.......). Now if I could only find hosting that comes with an 8th day each week!
        Wendy Welton
        Architect
        past & future Alphaholic - deliberately falling off the wagon!

        http://www.artformhomeplans.com/

        Comment


          #5
          Re: The importance of Alpha aware hosting

          Originally posted by WendyWelton View Post
          Maybe folks could post any others they are using and would recommend.
          Adding to the subject Wendy kicked off... I went with GoDaddy June of 2011 and the first few months were a struggle (mostly unrelated to godaddy) but now I am very satisfied. Some key lessons I learned

          During the initial godaddy dedicated server purchase, I had to decide if I wanted their professional services or do everything myself. I went with doing it myself which works well in my situation. I think this is an important decision point when getting set up with any vendor and needs a lot of thought and research before choosing which way to go.

          "Plesk" is the special control panel godaddy automatically installs on their dedicated servers. The tool and I didn't get along very well. Example, I would change it's port to something other than 80 and set it to not automatically update/reboot. I'd get everything running smooth and then the settings would revert back to their defaults everytime they had an update or patch. I also found the updates and patches would still load even though I set Plesk to manal updates. Solution fo me... shut it down - Plesk is completely disabed on my VPS. I am not knocking Plesk, but am sharing what works for some may not work for others.
          I initially installed SQL Server 2005 and then upgraded to SQL Server 2008 R2 which backfired. This was due to a Microsoft error in the installation manifest
          I was struggling with Plesk and the SQL upgrade at the same time and after a week of failing and flai;ing, I contacted GoDaddy high level tech support seeking their assistance. Getting their help required turning over the server to them and they would decide how, what, where and when anything would be installed. They were aware of Alpha Five but didn't have strong experience nor would commit to installing/managing the multiple WAS. So I ended up sticking with the do it myself decision and worked my way through the issues. This directly ties into the intial decision of selecting the vendor that best suites you

          Windows Server 2008 was a bit of a learning curve particularly the new firewall. I made the mistake of assuming server 2008 would be just like 2005 and it isn't. I still run into those "where is it" moments when I'm doing maintenance

          Microsoft Updates - I have it set to manual, that way I decide what gets updated and when and can plan for reboots. This works most of the time, I have had 2 occurances where the Microsoft update still ran automatically and rebooted the server. I sure there must be a way to prevent this but haven't had the time to dig into it. This is a case in point where doing server maintenance yourself means taking time away from development

          AlwaysUp - I haven't installed it yet but will probably reach a point where I need it

          Monitoring my sites is done through one of our IVR's (voice response) which reside on seperate platforms. I have a job set up that goes to each web site and if it isn't available/responding, the IVR calls me. Right now the process is set to run every 15 minutes so the downside is there could be a short outage. To date, the VPS has gone down twice due to Microsoft updates (even though they're set to manual) and both times I got the automated call and took care of getting the WAS back up. AlwaysUp will take care of this but I will also keep my IVR monitoring in place for the extra coverage in case AlwaysUp can't handle the situation.

          This is a great topic and thanks to Wendy for giving it some fresh airtime. Even though the initial setup and learning curve were difficult, I am very pleased with the GoDaddy service.

          Comment


            #6
            Re: The importance of Alpha aware hosting

            Originally posted by ids-dave View Post


            "Plesk" is the special control panel godaddy automatically installs on their dedicated servers. The tool and I didn't get along very well. Example, I would change it's port to something other than 80 and set it to not automatically update/reboot. I'd get everything running smooth and then the settings would revert back to their defaults everytime they had an update or patch. I also found the updates and patches would still load even though I set Plesk to manal updates. Solution fo me... shut it down - Plesk is completely disabed on my VPS.
            Exactly. All those "award winning, ease of use..." control panels, as long as A4 uses port 80, not compatible.

            Your other comments are excellent as well, and will probably help somebody else at some point.

            Originally posted by ids-dave View Post

            Monitoring my sites is done through one of our IVR's (voice response) which reside on seperate platforms. I have a job set up that goes to each web site and if it isn't available/responding, the IVR calls me. Right now the process is set to run every 15 minutes so the downside is there could be a short outage.
            What? Who? I think I need this. Can you tell me where to look for this? Right now I'm relying on manual checking or somebody giving me the heads up.
            Wendy Welton
            Architect
            past & future Alphaholic - deliberately falling off the wagon!

            http://www.artformhomeplans.com/

            Comment


              #7
              Re: The importance of Alpha aware hosting

              Wendy, IVR is another technology that has gotten easier over the years (I've done many many IVR systems since 1991) but isn't cheap. Besides learning another technology, you have to account for licenses, platforms, redundancy, phone lines, etc. VOIP/SIP has been a great improvement for the phone lines but there's still a cost and overhead. There are many products on the market and the two I currently use and support are Intervoice and Voicent. They are significantly different when it comes to building call trees and integration to other systems. Now I'm wondering if I should provide an inexpensive service so anyone could use my IVR to have it monitor their sites and call, text, email them if it's down

              Comment


                #8
                Re: The importance of Alpha aware hosting

                Originally posted by ids-dave View Post
                Now I'm wondering if I should provide an inexpensive service so anyone could use my IVR to have it monitor their sites and call, text, email them if it's down
                You could be on to something! I'd pay for that.
                Wendy Welton
                Architect
                past & future Alphaholic - deliberately falling off the wagon!

                http://www.artformhomeplans.com/

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: The importance of Alpha aware hosting

                  David - I used to write IVR using ProVide from TRT. I'd love to get back into it, tie it into an A5 application. What are the best IVR tools these days?
                  Steve Wood
                  See my profile on IADN

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: The importance of Alpha aware hosting

                    Just to add my 2 cents worth. I have 2 different sites with virtual servers running with GoDaddy. And no problems. Don't have the plesk thing running either, that is conflict with Alpha and port 80. I understand Zebra host is good as well. I did some testing with them over a year ago, but they have a certain way they want a5 installed, with data directory, etc. Since I moved these 2 sites off my server onto GoDaddy, I did not want to have to redo everything to account for the path differences. The only pain was getting the FTP server setup right and that is a Microsoft server process that is very cumbersome to say the least.
                    mike
                    Mike Reed
                    Phoenix, AZ

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: The importance of Alpha aware hosting

                      Hi Steve, quick brain dump on the products I deal with 1st hand.....

                      Intervoice and Convergys merged a few years ago... imo they are still the Cadillac if you can afford it. Products are great along with support, documentation and everything else you could ever want. If your client has a large call center, they have terrific products for that as well

                      Voicent is my tool of choice for small to medium businesses. Pricing wise, I believe they are the best deal in town and you can buy exactly what you need. Inbound/Outbound capabilities are great and they do not require any proprietary hardware. Call trees use vxml and their tool for building these works very well and is easy to learn. They have a call center agent that is "okay". Their documentation isn't the greatest when it comes to integration but you probably would do just fine with it. They have a free trial version if you want to do a test drive. The product requires Java, Apache and SQL (any version/brand), so make sure you're okay with loading that stuff on your particular machine

                      For VOIP/SIP I use 2 services... one is my local phone company and the other is CallCentric. I use our local phone company for one customer only because they insist (even though it's way overpriced and there's been 3 or 4 instances of line hi-jacking on their desk phones). CallCentric is a big time operation with very good area code coverage, overall security and is price competitive. Smaller or local comapnies offering VOIP/SIP cannot deal with all the scams and hacks as well as the big guys, nor with all the low level protocol issues that creep up. Security issues I'm referring to stem from phising and impostering rather than technical attacks, so the weekness resides with the providers staff rather than the technology. I haven't heard of a successful technical attack in probably 2 or 3 years

                      I could go on and on and bore ya to no end
                      Dave

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: The importance of Alpha aware hosting

                        To add to the list. I have several apps running without issue on 2 VPS's with Fasthosts here in the UK. Very quick and the only issues have been those created by yours truly! Have stayed well clear of Plesk!
                        Glen Schild



                        My Blog

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: The importance of Alpha aware hosting

                          Originally posted by Mike Reed View Post
                          The only pain was getting the FTP server setup right and that is a Microsoft server process that is very cumbersome to say the least
                          Microsoft FTP -that too was an initial source of frustration and lost time for me

                          Originally posted by Mike Reed View Post
                          I have 2 different sites with virtual servers running with GoDaddy
                          Mike - how many servers do you have at GoDaddy?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: The importance of Alpha aware hosting

                            I have heard almost nothing but good about Zebra Host here.

                            But I am planning on going with 1&1 myself. They do use Plesk, and have wondered if I should attempt to learn it, and use it, or to disable it.

                            They include an iphone and android app for server monitoring that alerts you if a service has a "status change". I hope this means of WAS stops. (I am seriously thinking about going with Always Up here also.)
                            They sometimes offer the first 3 months free, (with a 12 month commitment,) though it is not being offered right now for VPS, but if it isn't being offered by the time I sign up, I assume if I call them up, their sales staff will give the the deal.

                            If my site works out, by the time I actually have to pay for it, I hope to have it paid for by my users.

                            But if I do have issues with them, I hope I can live with it for a year.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: The importance of Alpha aware hosting

                              There are other, easier monitoring solutions. I use West Wind Web Monitor (http://west-wind.com/webmonitor/) and it will alert me via email and/or text if it doesn't see what I expect to see (such as a web page, or certain text within a web page.) I've set it to run as a service on my office desktop computer, so it is always up, watching...

                              Comment

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