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v12 Release Notes

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    #46
    Re: v12 Release Notes

    Last Saturday, I did an ititial install with a client, a desktop using the grids. The first comment out of his mouth was, "Wow, this looks nice". That was using the grids right out of the box, no other visual enhancements.
    How did you do that as a matter of interest Ken? Did you use the installer?
    Bet you uploaded a newer version and had left your fingerprints on the keyboard!

    Suggestion to anyone listening. Use the WAS as a desktop app for single users - replacing the DT. You could probably figure out how to use WAS in a LAN like the RunTime is set up. Ho Hum!
    See our Hybrid Option here;
    https://hybridapps.example-software.com/


    Apologies to anyone I haven't managed to upset yet.
    You are held in a queue and I will get to you soon.

    Comment


      #47
      Re: v12 Release Notes

      Hey Ted,

      My client has A5v11 so all I did was send a file to her computer using Join.Me and then set it up. I The A5 installer doesn't work on my computer, it hangs up after the 1st step. My guess is this is the last version we'll see the A5 installer because it is built on at least one very old file.
      TYVM :) kenn

      Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.

      Comment


        #48
        Re: v12 Release Notes

        I spent the afternoon with an old client. I had written a Desktop application for them maybe ten years ago, and they took over after I completed my task. So this was the first time I saw my work in ten years. They are on Runtime with twenty users on LAN. One thing I noticed as we browsed through the records is how darn FAST Desktop is compared to web. You cannot scroll pages and do lookups nearly as fast in web environment. This, even though they are on DBF tables.
        Steve Wood
        See my profile on IADN

        Comment


          #49
          Re: v12 Release Notes

          Originally posted by Steve Wood View Post
          I spent the afternoon with an old client. I had written a Desktop application for them maybe ten years ago, and they took over after I completed my task. So this was the first time I saw my work in ten years. They are on Runtime with twenty users on LAN. One thing I noticed as we browsed through the records is how darn FAST Desktop is compared to web. You cannot scroll pages and do lookups nearly as fast in web environment. This, even though they are on DBF tables.
          This is probably true no matter which A5 version they are using but perhaps especially so if they are still using V5. What version are they now using?

          Raymond Lyons

          Comment


            #50
            Re: v12 Release Notes

            Originally posted by Steve Wood View Post
            One thing I noticed as we browsed through the records is how darn FAST Desktop is compared to web. You cannot scroll pages and do lookups nearly as fast in web environment.
            Alpha's web components are as fast as anything out there on the web, but there's no beating the desktop for speed. That is one thing that makes it difficult to persuade an existing desktop user to go web to replace a desktop app.
            Peter
            AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

            [email protected]
            https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


            Comment


              #51
              Re: v12 Release Notes

              This is probably true no matter which A5 version they are using but perhaps especially so if they are still using V5. What version are they now using?
              They are on V11 as of the last month or so. A good Desktop developer took over many years ago (claims to be a lurker on this forum), and has done a nice job. I was called in because of some problems resulting from moving from V8 to V11 and upgrading the server and workstations - all at once! By time I arrived the panic was over and problems appear to be caused by data caching on both Win7 and Win2012.

              It was a good reminder that the skill one needs to manage a networked Desktop application are different than for a web app.
              Steve Wood
              See my profile on IADN

              Comment


                #52
                Re: v12 Release Notes

                Originally posted by Peter.Greulich View Post
                Alpha's web components are as fast as anything out there on the web, but there's no beating the desktop for speed. That is one thing that makes it difficult to persuade an existing desktop user to go web to replace a desktop app.
                Exactly..... (Being a business owner with "people waiting in lines at the other side of the counter", that's my point.) Not that it really matters, but: I was building interactive data driven web sites back in the late 90's with a tool called Drumbeat 2k. It was insanely capable once you learned how it worked. I'd argue that with the exception of AJAX support (which didn't exist), it was ever bit as capable as a5 is today on the web side. (They were a "web only" tool. That was back in 1999!)

                Anyone can argue that the desktop is dead all they want. The truth is, most small businesses (the class that Alpha developers typically cater to) want to run programs, not servers. ~ And the other option of trying to run a business over the web (in real-time) presents a whole different set of problems. Speed alone (or lack thereof) is a deal-breaker without client based code via a plugin etc... There is absolutely no way I could run my business (POS systems) via a browser based online connection to a server. Too slow. (Nor would I want to risk down-time. Anyone who has used Quickbooks online for POS can attest to this.)

                From a business perspective: About the only two benefits of a web server/client solution (for non website based services geared to the consumer at home) are: 1.) Hardware/software installation & maintenance. and 2.) Entrusting someone off-site with the responsibility of storing, securing & protecting the data. (And #2 is a "double-edged" sword.)

                If Alpha takes their web objects/components and integrates them into the desktop (replacing the desktop objects), that could prove itself a viable option. But until that happens, it would behoove Alpha to continue support for the desktop objects and fix the outstanding bugs. (That was a selling point of the subscription.) ~ Honestly, I don't think I'm "missing the boat" one bit. In fact, I believe i see things with a level of clarity only a business owner would. And yes, there are other competitive products, possibly more suitable to what I am presently doing on the desktop. (One of which I do intend to evaluate.) I may in fact return with a renewed appreciation for Alpha. Irrespective, I owe it to myself to take a look in lieu of what is happening with the a5 desktop.
                Last edited by SNusa; 02-23-2013, 12:53 AM.
                Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
                It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
                RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

                Comment


                  #53
                  Re: v12 Release Notes

                  The whole "desktop<>web" discussion is in my opinion not a very fruitful one, since it really all depends on the situation. You can't argue for the desktop in favor of the web or vice versa in general terms. There is a rather sophisticated and complex package of advantages and disadvantages coupled on either choice (if you think you need to make one!), and it really needs careful consideration what to choose based on a basket full of criteria.

                  We must remember, that the desktop solution in LAN also brings great responsibility with regards to data protection, continuity and security issues and what not. Designing a well thought-out data recovery system can be a hell of a job which certainly has a price-tag. At some point, costs and responsibility begins to add up to a point where it is much more interesting to launch an app into the cloud using the services of a tier-4 or 5 provider, using advanced virtualization and data protection.

                  My point is, you can't say much in general about this. There is no "one choice being generally better then the other one" when comparing desktop and web, or even mobile for that matter. It all depends. On many things. Sometimes the choice is clear, other times the choice is extremely complex.

                  Without Alpha offering any "hybrid capabilities" such as running webcomponents on a desktop, I have already tested out setups with virtualization and thin clients running a desktop application on balanced servers successfully years ago. Options are many, fluid and flexible. As said: it all depends.

                  Comment


                    #54
                    Re: v12 Release Notes

                    One thing worth mentioning regarding the desktop is:

                    One of the selling points for renewing a [my] subscription the second time around was: Continued support & bug fixing for the desktop side as well as the web side. (Which has subsequently occasionally turned into a "We're presently busy with other projects. We'll let you know when we get around to working on this" response.) ~ I haven't seen a single update as "promised", either. As subscribers, we were also essentially promised a plethora of "smart phone" & tablet capabilities. (not that I was ready for them, but they were nevertheless supposed to be part of the deal within the v.11 release) ~ To put it bluntly, these were things that we (as subscribers) presumably were paying for, "up front."
                    To be technical, a subscription holder could probably call their card company company (because of the points made in the previous paragraph) & dispute charges on the annual subscription. After forwarding the marketing emails & sales correspondence from my sales rep at Alpha: It wouldn't take much effort to negate the transaction due to breach of contractual obligations."

                    I have no intentions whatsoever of doing this. In fact, I may (possibly) continue to support Alpha depending on several factors, one being price of renewal in December. ~ Merely stating a point which I doubt anyone can adequately debate otherwise....
                    It's worth noting that: On several occasions, the Alpha sales department has said things that turned out to be "inaccurate" to make a sale. It happens everywhere. Recently Alpha has also begun "distancing themselves" from extending any concrete promises. Due to the "technical nature" of this industry, you can't/shouldn't condemn Alpha for this. (Not "feeling the love here", but in a way I almost have pity for them based on all their "recently amassed dependencies." (almost that is)

                    Bottom line: To maintain subscriber renewals, they must live up to expectations! (accountability) ~ And if they are accomplishing this, great!

                    On a totally unrelated note: Anyone else frequently get the "invalid memory access error" when posting to the alpha software forum? (It's been happening for quite some time now.)
                    Last edited by SNusa; 02-23-2013, 01:02 PM.
                    Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
                    It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
                    RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

                    Comment


                      #55
                      Re: v12 Release Notes

                      Originally posted by SNusa View Post
                      On a totally unrelated note: Anyone else frequently get the "invalid memory access error" when posting to the alpha software forum?
                      It's not related to posting a message i think. Lately the forum has been down a lot. This problem happened 2-years ago and Alpha solved it by moving to a new server. Not sure why the problem has reemerged.
                      Peter
                      AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

                      [email protected]
                      https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


                      Comment


                        #56
                        Re: v12 Release Notes

                        So, Robert, what exactly is your point?

                        Being ABLE to do something is hardly sound argumentation for actually DOING it? There are A LOT of things that I COULD do, but don't do anyway.
                        And without saying you are wrong, or that I factually want to fight your point of view, one would think that if you have a gripe with the supplier of any good or service you would expect you to contact THEM first in stead of posting on a public forum? Did you ever confront Alpha Software with your complaints? And (if you care to share) what was their reaction?
                        I guess whether you are right or wrong does not matter that much thinking that they should have the first right to make good upon justified complaints you might have?

                        But, nevertheless a bit to the point you rise:

                        A subscription gives you basically the right to anything they have. What they don't have, they can't share, and what they might have that is not ready yet to be shared, you wouldn't want them to share would you?

                        A company can state that they strive to accomplish this-and-that, but I would say that nobody has ever guaranteed you that any specific features would be in v11? Furthermore, a subscription system is always a system were you step in previous to releases. You will never know what exactly will be in the next release, at best an estimation from the supplier to what they are aiming. Being a developer yourself you should know that you can not be precise about this: things can become very complex very rapidly and cause great delay. Not on intent. Bad luck? Who is to be blamed for running into bad luck, or being maybe a bit too enthusiastic on what you can deliver?

                        Suppose you buy a pain killer of which promotion says it will take your pain within 5 minutes... when do you complain? When it takes 6 minutes? An hour? When it does not work at all?

                        My point being, that there are that many different stances as their are that many different persons. Some always complain (did not say YOU !!) some never complain and accept ANYTHING.

                        Software is a strange business Robert.

                        Personally, I buy what I need the moment I need it. Nothing more, no sooner or later. That does not mean I don't follow things, or don't appreciate things, just that I am careful and like to think about things before stepping in to it. So has everybody his own point of view in these things.

                        Comment


                          #57
                          Re: v12 Release Notes

                          Originally posted by Peter.Greulich View Post
                          Alpha's web components are as fast as anything out there on the web, but there's no beating the desktop for speed. That is one thing that makes it difficult to persuade an existing desktop user to go web to replace a desktop app.
                          Another Exactly @ Robert T.

                          I would get every version if it means making me more competitive and able to offer my users more.
                          v12 is still dead in the water for me largely for these reasons;-
                          - I have asked proponents of the "tons of extra features" for desktop in v12 to enumerate some - got none
                          - I only hear and read about additional bugs
                          - No replies from Alpha regarding DeskTop's future
                          - Distributed installation got more complex, and fallen behind Win 7/8 64.
                          A single statement hidden in a bunch of stuff hinting at a single EXE installation.
                          A simple clarification by Alpha would lift this whole apparent cloud (terrestrial, not ether type) .

                          Comment


                            #58
                            Re: v12 Release Notes

                            Originally posted by Peter.Greulich View Post
                            It's not related to posting a message i think. Lately the forum has been down a lot. This problem happened 2-years ago and Alpha solved it by moving to a new server. Not sure why the problem has reemerged.
                            Good. I keep wondering whether it was somehow a problem on my end. I didn't think so, but browser privacy extensions sometimes do some very strange things. I'm back to using firefox as of several months ago and it seems to happen frequently. (Moved away from Chrome due to "a little mistrust as to what google may be doing with all the data they collect from me", regardless of the browsers privacy extensions/"presumed locked-down" configuration!)

                            I remember it was really bad a few months ago. (December?) ~ It was "up and down" like a bouncing super-ball.
                            Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
                            It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
                            RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

                            Comment


                              #59
                              Re: v12 Release Notes

                              Hi Ray,

                              I'm so pleased other share my point of view regarding v.12+ and the desktop! Alpha could very easily appease all their desktop users/subscribers. (And if they value us, they will.) ~ It really wouldn't take too much effort! (It's not like we're asking for a lot of new things, just properly working things that should have been corrected long before now.)

                              IF V.12 IS TO BE THE LAST VERSION OF THE TRUE DESKTOP, MAKE IT A GREAT ONE & "GO OUT WITH A BANG!"
                              • Clean up the code & fix the browse. (They never fully accomplished this after recently moving to the new 1600 compiled versions.) ~ (It was not long ago, in version 10 that they split and were "re-writing" some code for the new compiler.) ~ The way I see it, Alpha just never finished what they started. *I could be wrong here, but that's how it appears to me.
                              • Provide a "bulletproof" single "distribution .exe container" for portable/seamless installations. (This should have been "perfected" years ago.) ~ A container that contains everything except user data .dbf files (that would get extracted), in the event a developer is using .dbf tables would be a near perfect solution IMHO.


                              If they're not careful (Alpha), v.12 is going to be extremely "painful" (for them) in terms of cash-flow...... Alpha needs "a Windows-7", not "a Vista."
                              (and not "a Windows-8", either) ~ CLEAN IT UP & FORGO A FEW "BELLS AND WHISTLES!" (and release a v.12.5 with the "extras") They'll get my continued support that way. (And when I'm ready, I'll dive back into the web side with renewed passion.)
                              Last edited by SNusa; 02-23-2013, 02:17 PM.
                              Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
                              It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
                              RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

                              Comment


                                #60
                                Re: v12 Release Notes

                                As Robert is suggesting, should we add more items for Alpha to fix for version 12 in this thread or should we start a new thread?
                                Perhaps 2 types of request for desktops:
                                1 Known FIXES due
                                2 Wish list ( at this point I will be happy with just fixes)

                                Comment

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