v12 Release Notes

[John Lemisch]

Re: v12 Release Notes

Has anyone here considered the possibility that Alpha IS monitoring this thread very carefully, and in so doing, is determining exactly how, and what version 12 should be? The thread touches on cost, content, intent, etc. and is a veritable treasure-trove of marketing data without actually asking customers what they woudl like. That would open a very direct and imposing can of worms now wouldn't it?

[kkfin]

Re: v12 Release Notes

Ken, give us a break, there is nothing at all humble about your opinions. Marcel's either, so I think you two joining forces makes for a good match at least in one respect.

Raymond, I always respond to a post. I also read your posts. Nothing to complain against them. I also read Marcels posts. Nothing to complain against them too. I have not noticed anything special in them. Just strong good opinions. If I have different opinion I will post it. That simple.

I will continue to post also to this forum if I thing I have something to say. I hope others will also. It does not bother me at all that somebody has different opinion. I can live with that.

If somebody thinks his opinion is better than others and others should stop posting I can live also with that.

I don't put my self above anybody.

[SNusa]

Re: v12 Release Notes

Has anyone here considered the possibility that Alpha IS monitoring this thread very carefully, and in so doing, is determining exactly how, and what version 12 should be? The thread touches on cost, content, intent, etc. and is a veritable treasure-trove of marketing data without actually asking customers what they woudl like. That would open a very direct and imposing can of worms now wouldn't it?

Absolutely, and that's been my hopes all along. (And explains my participation in other similar threads too.)
"Testing the waters" without providing concrete details. ~ Like any business, Alpha intends to maximize their profit potentials without the risk of loosing customers. I'm just not convinced their approach is as effective as they believe it to be.

On that note: I've been criticized for publicly voicing frustrations and disappointment on these threads. ~ It's my belief that if users don't voice their opinions here (and share their experiences, both good and bad): Alpha is going to price the product high initially, and not deliver what we as users expect..... And if that happens, users won't jump to v.12, and the initial offers will be followed by a resurgence of different (better) offers and new options... (Sound familiar?)

I've always (since v.7 I believe) upgraded yearly/whenever new versions appeared, subscriptions & all. (And I've owned older versions that came on CD's & floppies too.) ~ But I don't see myself making the jump/commitment this time around. (Maybe once the details arrive? ~ Concrete details, not "promises from sales" and/or "roadmaps." Those have largely proven themselves to be "irrelevant" at best IMHO.) For Alpha's sake, I sincerely hope that others (particularly those who have been waiting & using older versions prior to v.11) don't feel as I do.....

Note: "voicing opinions" doesn't mean starting arguments & creating animosity between forum members.....

[forskare]

Re: v12 Release Notes

Alpha is going about this the same way they have with each version. Many have voiced their thoughts of what Alpha should do or not do. No matter what plan Alpha comes up with, not every one will like it. One thing for sure, Alpha has always priced their products fairly although some will disagree. All this talk about not buying a subscription etc., is just that, a bunch of hot air. I just think it is downright to say, ai't gonna buy v12 or aint gonna buy a subscription. I'm wondering though, how does it feel to keep shooting yourselves in the foot? Do ya switch feet to give the one a break?

Yes, Alpha monitors the forums and they do listen to what folks say about pricing. However, (stand by for speculation) I bet they don't put much weight behind what some say they will or won't do because it all depends on how the song is sung.

[DaveM]

Re: v12 Release Notes

Kenn,

Try that statement on the hundred or so that have already left Alpha for whatever pastures they found. How many did I not know of? I did not leave, but had many converstaions and tried to disuade most of them. Will they ever be back, don't know. I do bet that a few come back to see what is going on.

Pricing issues are more likely to keep people away than anything else. I know this because I sold cars in the Luxury side of the auto business. I just don't think Alpha has crossed to the luxury side of the software business.

[Scott_Walker]

Re: v12 Release Notes

Bottom line is there is probably nobody on this forum who is qualified to tell Alpha what they should do! Why? We have no idea of the issues involved!

What are their costs. What are their sales. What are their profits. What are the trends. What is the profitability of their different types and sizes of customers. Are their implications for getting future funding for expansion? We don't know all the facts (nor do we have the right to). We don't know MOST of the facts. I bet you Richard can tell you the goals and the issues from memory. That is his job. It is his company.

Alpha should do whatever they need to do to achieve their business goals. If their goal is to make friends, then that gives them one path. If their goal is to maximize short time profits, then that gives then another path. If their goal is to grow the company medium term and sell out so they can put their feet up, then another path is called for.

We (this forum) cannot possible tell them what to do because we don't know their goals (short/medium/long term) and we don't know the facts.

Most companies that grow end up losing some of their original customers. The focus of the company changes over time. When I opened my business I picked the smallest bank in town. I wanted more personal service. I knew the President and major stock holder of the bank. He lived in the same neighborhood. Over time, and several mergers I no longer know anyone other than the cute teller at the drive through window (who seems to have virtually no authority to do anything but take my deposit and smile). They have gotten more corporate. The seem a lot more interested in squeezing fees out of me. Should I complain that they are no longer who they were? I don't think so. There are advantages....more branches, better on-line banking services, etc. I've got to balance them out and make my choice to stay or move to another bank.

Software companies morphing into something else are particularly painful since developers have often built their business around them. The only thing more painful than changes you don't like is them going out of business. What percentage of software companies that started when Alpha started are still around. I would guess (just a guess) less than 1/10th of a percent.

It could be better. It could be worse. It is what it is.

I hope they make the right choices for their sakes...they have worked VERY hard for VERY long and deserve much success.

I hope they make choices that allow long time users to stay on board and up to date and PAYING but if that does not match up with their goals and the facts, then so be it.

I only have about (50) customers. I like them but I would not keep doing it if I was not making the money I need to make. None of them are going to send me a check each month when I retire.

I have enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts and suggestions, but perhaps this forum in not the right place for Alpha's business plans or our business advice to them. I think it would be more appropriate in private email. Send them to Richard...I bet he would read them even if he does not always respond....only so many hours in the day.

Regards,

Scott

[DaveM]

Re: v12 Release Notes

Being a business person and in the car business as well as the software business and currently having a solid 29 on my biggest app and a lot more on a couple smaller apps, I also understand and no we do not know any of their particulars. I really don't want to know.

My own personal idea is for them to retain what they have as they grow, for what ever reason they wish to grow.

Many things they did that I did not want to see was a server, ms dependency, ms only web site hosting, etc. They did it any way, not my business. It is my business to have to install all these dependencies on a client's computer and do it again every time they need an update. I really don't think they wanted to go this far down the path either, but they did.

DO NOT mistake! I do want them to make money, lots of it. I think everybody on the forum wants that.

Their future is good, in my opinion but they have to get mainstream. I am not sure what that holds for the little guy.

I had an email from a not competing product the other day that wanted to send a reap out, but only if they were sure I had a budget of 25000+ as an initial amount. That would be tough to handle.

[Scott_Walker]

Re: v12 Release Notes

Being a business person and in the car business as well as the software business and currently having a solid 29 on my biggest app and a lot more on a couple smaller apps, I also understand and no we do not know any of their particulars. I really don't want to know.


***Then why is everyone talking about it here?


My own personal idea is for them to retain what they have as they grow, for what ever reason they wish to grow.


***We don't know what they want, so why is everyone talking about it here?

Many things they did that I did not want to see was a server, ms dependency, ms only web site hosting, etc. They did it any way, not my business. It is my business to have to install all these dependencies on a client's computer and do it again every time they need an update. I really don't think they wanted to go this far down the path either, but they did.

***I don't see how any of that is relevant.

DO NOT mistake! I do want them to make money, lots of it. I think everybody on the forum wants that.

**I doubt if that is what everyone on the forum wants...more like "I hope they make a lot of money as long as they do it in a way that suits my needs/features desired/budget/timelines". We don't even know if their GOALS include "Making A Lot Of Money"...it is not the goal of many software developers...they love what they do and love to share it with others...they have to make a living but one of their big goals (consciously or unconsciously) is being admired or appreciated or the coolest, or one of many other things.

**Since we don't know their GOALS, I don't know why we are talking here on the forum about how to achieve those unknown goals...that equation looks like " = "


Their future is good, in my opinion but they have to get mainstream. I am not sure what that holds for the little guy.

***Again...depends on their short/medium/long term unknown goals***

I had an email from a not competing product the other day that wanted to send a reap out, but only if they were sure I had a budget of 25000+ as an initial amount. That would be tough to handle.

***Not sure how that is relevant.

***Sorry about my quoting here...I have no idea how to quote on this forum. I will work on that...but since I said I don't think this is the right place for the Alpha V business advice to Richard to achieve his UNKNOWN BUSINESS GOALS taking into account a large number of unknown facts, I will have to drop out of this discussion.

**I enjoy reading your posts but my opinion is that this is the wrong place for this discussion and most of what has been said has been said over and over.

Regards,

Scott

[mronck]

Re: v12 Release Notes

Bottom line is there is probably nobody on this forum who is qualified to tell Alpha what they should do! Why? We have no idea of the issues involved!

What are their costs. What are their sales. What are their profits. What are the trends. What is the profitability of their different types and sizes of customers. Are their implications for getting future funding for expansion? We don't know all the facts (nor do we have the right to). We don't know MOST of the facts. I bet you Richard can tell you the goals and the issues from memory. That is his job. It is his company.

Alpha should do whatever they need to do to achieve their business goals. If their goal is to make friends, then that gives them one path. If their goal is to maximize short time profits, then that gives then another path. If their goal is to grow the company medium term and sell out so they can put their feet up, then another path is called for.

We (this forum) cannot possible tell them what to do because we don't know their goals (short/medium/long term) and we don't know the facts.

Most companies that grow end up losing some of their original customers. The focus of the company changes over time. When I opened my business I picked the smallest bank in town. I wanted more personal service. I knew the President and major stock holder of the bank. He lived in the same neighborhood. Over time, and several mergers I no longer know anyone other than the cute teller at the drive through window (who seems to have virtually no authority to do anything but take my deposit and smile). They have gotten more corporate. The seem a lot more interested in squeezing fees out of me. Should I complain that they are no longer who they were? I don't think so. There are advantages....more branches, better on-line banking services, etc. I've got to balance them out and make my choice to stay or move to another bank.

Software companies morphing into something else are particularly painful since developers have often built their business around them. The only thing more painful than changes you don't like is them going out of business. What percentage of software companies that started when Alpha started are still around. I would guess (just a guess) less than 1/10th of a percent.

It could be better. It could be worse. It is what it is.

I hope they make the right choices for their sakes...they have worked VERY hard for VERY long and deserve much success.

I hope they make choices that allow long time users to stay on board and up to date and PAYING but if that does not match up with their goals and the facts, then so be it.

I only have about (50) customers. I like them but I would not keep doing it if I was not making the money I need to make. None of them are going to send me a check each month when I retire.

I have enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts and suggestions, but perhaps this forum in not the right place for Alpha's business plans or our business advice to them. I think it would be more appropriate in private email. Send them to Richard...I bet he would read them even if he does not always respond....only so many hours in the day.

Regards,

Scott

Mr. Walker, you make fine quality posts.
I fully agree with your statements and the atmosphere in your post.

However, I can also understand why people are reacting sometimes a bit (too) hefty: for some this is their livelihood at stake. And maybe, most posts should not be seen as an advice to Alpha but more as a lineup for their own interests. That is fine and understandable. However, Alpha is not under any obligation to have the same goals or view as you/we have and may very well choose a different approach. Indeed Mr. Walker, since they have the privilege of having all the facts and Alpha being their company, it ultimately indeed is their decision and we have to see how far that matches our own ideas/wishes/requirements/possibilities.

People should also understand that constantly bickering around in as many threads as possible does also have a negative impact on their own business or at least on the business of colleague Alpha Five developers. Discussing things in a mannerly fashion is OK on almost any subject, even if it includes some irony or sarcasm for the cause of argument, but that stops when people resolve to insults. There is no need for that on this forum or anywhere else for that matter. Even if you are anonymous.

There is a difference in 'just growing bigger' and the changes the come from that on the one side, and changing your market position in terms of product placement. I think that with the introduction of "web" this change was set in motion, and with the coming of "mobile" this will even get into affect more. Alpha will get a more professional type of customer in the house as they started off with (the "no coding required customer"). It is not only a change because they get larger, its also because they are shifting to another customer group and because of product characteristics can shift the placement of their product into another market segment. The characteristics of the product change, and thus this attracts a different type of customer. This in itself may allow (or call for) different marketing strategies including something like a subscription model and/or other price settings.

There is not much to win in trying to hold the customer in the house AT ALL COSTS. At some point you have to accept that customers leave. So be it. New ones will take their places, and maybe even at higher profits. It's a natural way of business.

[SNusa]

Re: v12 Release Notes

Alpha is however under some obligation to honor past & present commitments, wouldn't you agree? (And also to meet future customer expectations, as a whole. ~ The consequences of not achieving this would be "dire.")

I suspect this is one of the primary reasons that Alpha (at present) is not (yet) making public statements as to exactly "what lies ahead this time around." In the recent past, they have occasionally conveyed "intentions" (for example the "v.11 roadmap") which did not materialize as expected. (Notably the "v.11 Release 2 features... It also appears the "futures" have taken a totally different direction, albeit those were only "speculations.") ~ Regardless, at the very least, "public statements" like this cause "mistrust" for those hoping/expecting. (Particularly if decisions and commitments had been made based upon these public "statements of intent.") What bewilders me is: Alpha has yet to remove (or update) the "v.11 Roadmap pages". (Is it even "plausible" that these "futures" are still outstanding goals? It sure seems unlikely at this point!

I'm "old school." I believe in accountability. I for one would much rather nothing be said than to be "misinformed." ~ At the very least, "selective withholding of information" does not adversely effect integrity.

[Raymond Lyons]

Re: v12 Release Notes

For goodness sake, this horse (thread) is dead. Virtually everything under the sun has been said and restated numerous times. Please, let's let this horse rest in peace. Don't even reply, "Yes, I agree." Just do it! I promise to, even if you don't.

Raymond Lyons

[forskare]

Re: v12 Release Notes

For goodness sake, this horse (thread) is dead. Virtually everything under the sun has been said and restated numerous times. Please, let's let this horse rest in peace. Don't even reply, "Yes, I agree." Just do it! I promise to, even if you don't.

Raymond Lyons

I look at this thread as a unusually long conversation. What's wrong with that? Sure some things have been said more than once but who wants to re-read and re-read to see if it has? Tell me, what makes you think the horse is dead, or should be? Just because you're tired of it (yet keep responding) doesn't mean others are because posts continue to be made. If you want the thread to die, then do your part and stop responding. That works, does it not?

[SNusa]

Re: v12 Release Notes

I look at this thread as a unusually long conversation. What's wrong with that? Sure some things have been said more than once but who wants to re-read and re-read to see if it has? Tell me, what makes you think the horse is dead, or should be? Just because you're tired of it (yet keep responding) doesn't mean others are because posts continue to be made. If you want the thread to die, then do your part and stop responding. That works, does it not?

For goodness sake, this horse (thread) is dead. Virtually everything under the sun has been said and restated numerous times. Please, let's let this horse rest in peace. Don't even reply, "Yes, I agree." Just do it! I promise to, even if you don't.

Raymond Lyons

It's interesting how much passion developers put into their work and tools. ~ Something as seemingly "cold" as coding bits & bytes sure brings out strong emotions.

[SNusa]

Re: v12 Release Notes

If it's any indication, I honestly thought that (somewhere) I had read that the v.12 beta was actually installed from the exact same file as the v.11 pre-release versions. ~ The difference being the the special beta registration codes unlocked the additional v.12 features. (I think this was stated under the release notes at some point.) I actually saved that page for future reference a few weeks ago, but now I'm seeing a 404 error.

The bookmark title (if this was the page where I got the info from) was: Alpha Software: Release Notes for Version 12
https://www.alphasoftware.com/platfo...&_hsmi=7384925 (presently showing the 404 error)

I may be wrong here, and this could have also changed. Nevertheless, I do remember reading and thinking to myself: "Smart.... That's how you address changes to both v.11 & v.12 simultaneously."

[mastermind315]

Re: v12 Release Notes

That's right Robert, v12 features were unlocked as feature packs for V11 pre-releases.