Estimating a job

[betty]

I am estimating a job for a client and wonder how to quote the app server and hosting .. are those recurring annual costs? Looking at zebra host, I am seeing $60/mo for hosting and the last price I had on the app server was $399. Is that a one time fee or recurring annually for the client?

I am thinking I will do the analysis and list the objects / activities / reports that need to be created and then quote on how much time I think it will take for each one. Is that logical?

Billing in 3rds .. a) Scope b) Testing c) go-live

Any suggestions? I have done development on other platforms in corporate environments but not too many of these alpha apps.

[betty]

Re: Estimating a job

Anything besides the app server / hosting I need to quote as far as stuff I don't provide?

[Peter.Greulich]

Re: Estimating a job

Well, you're in the v12 forum so for v12, the server cost is $99/month forever - or $1899 with 6-months of updates. But there are other options and they may cut you a price break. See: http://alphasoftware.com/buy.asp

[bhrt60]

Re: Estimating a job

Well, you're in the v12 forum so for v12, the server cost is $99/month forever - or $1899 with 6-months of updates. But there are other options and they may cut you a price break. See: http://alphasoftware.com/buy.asp

Hate to say this but unless there are "other" options these costs are probably going to kill it.

At least 2 of my existing clients told me they don't want a Shared Server & that they need full access to the Server & app (they are OK that I must protect my code)
$ 99 per month plus Windows Sever hosting - you are looking at $ 150 to $ 180 a month .... so that's at least $200 per month for the end user

I'm seriously looking at for fun / potential at the moment - will need it make me some money in the next 4-6 months or I'm out !

I know you are a moderator and probably nothing to do with Alpha.... just reporting to feedback.

Based on client feedback I've decided one of the App to an OPEN platfrom.. pitty I was hoping to use that app to get started with Alpha :)

[kkfin]

Re: Estimating a job

Anything besides the app server / hosting I need to quote as far as stuff I don't provide?

You should say to your client that if they take the Alphas WAS12 subscription server (99$ per month) and something (odd) happens to Alpha their server will be down in two months.

[betty]

Re: Estimating a job

It is discouraging isn't it. Putting myself in the client's shoes .. which is where I was when I first bought A5 .. $150/mo every month the rest of my life is not affordable. I went with Alpha because I had an issue with my own business - a kludge of multiple applications that did not work together - and a small fortune to integrate those or a subscription to a hosted application at $50/month per user. Alpha was affordable, they had been around a while, and I thought I might be able to make some money with it building apps for my very small clients. My son discouraged me .. because it is proprietary rather than open source.

The client in question has 15 customers and 25 contractors. Very small business.

I paid the subscription for the last two years (or whatever) and honestly, can't say that I've seen a whole lot for my money. This whole subscription thing is kind of like paying taxes. I understand that Alpha needs to make money - so do I. There is a market here for somebody. But I don't think that's me. Might not be Alpha. Guess it's time to get off the alpha bandwagon.

[bea2701]

Re: Estimating a job

Alphasoftware Sales model is not unique, there are several suppliers who apply it. I just want to say that you should look regardless vendor what is provided and how you want to use it in your situation.

Please keep in mind that both parties must have a valid subscription [[or at least the same Alpha build on both sites ] for webapps to deploy "your webapps" update and Alpha builds to avoid version conflict issues.
If not yourself and/or your customer take risk of corrupted application deployment at the customer [deployment] site due to bugfixing, new features etc. and not to forget different A5 builds so again there is a potential high risk that could lead to conflicts in production mode if versions are out of sync.

If your [end]customer subscription is no longer valid contact sales at Alphasoftware for a subscription offer.

Perhaps shared hosting is a better solution for small business like your client, i do some resarch to find out what the available options are or new to create.
It's wasting money that you can't use your developer subscription there is nothing wrong the Alpha toolbox.

[bhrt60]

Re: Estimating a job

Alphasoftware Sales model is not unique, there are several suppliers who apply it. I just want to say that you should look regardless vendor what is provided and how you want to use it in your situation.

Please keep in mind that both parties must have a valid subscription [[or at least the same Alpha build on both sites ] for webapps to deploy "your webapps" update and Alpha builds to avoid version conflict issues.
If not yourself and/or your customer take risk of corrupted application deployment at the customer [deployment] site due to bugfixing, new features etc. and not to forget different A5 builds so again there is a potential high risk that could lead to conflicts in production mode if versions are out of sync.

If your [end]customer subscription is no longer valid contact sales at Alphasoftware for a subscription offer.

Perhaps shared hosting is a better solution for small business like your client, i do some resarch to find out what the available options are or new to create.
It's wasting money that you can't use your developer subscription there is nothing wrong the Alpha toolbox.

Another blow for Alpha model...

I quoted a client for a Web application this has a small Mobile component - 2 weeks ago.
Application inc Web Component � 2500
plus hosting Windows VPS + Broker the monthly fee came to � 179

They have a quote from another supplier for a PHP based webapp � 3500 including Mobile for iOS + Android
Linux based hosting fee of � 25

So hosting will kill this I think - � 250 p/a against � 2148 p/a

Not yet a rejection from the client as we've worked together for over 10 years but it does look like I will have to find a Mobile developer (or subcontractor) rather than use Alpha for the mobile bit... PHP app I can do ....

[s.tsukuda]

Re: Estimating a job

I am in the same boat. Alphasoftware makes a good product but the value proposition is not as easy to argue as it was in the past. I would prefer to use one product on every job but there are now a bunch of services where the IDE and hosting are integrated on the web and the development process to move to one of these environments is not that difficult.

John Chambers of Cisco said, "We don't compete against competitors, We compete against market transitions." It is no longer Alpha vs Access but Alpha vs a market transition towards SaaS.

For sites that may have 1 main developer and some part-time developers (i.e. end-users) that can make minor changes on the fly, the hosted model produces quicker results and at less overall cost. Recurring software licence(s) and management costs for the developer IDE go away. In its place are a single bill for Software-As-A-Service (SaaS) and a single provider and a single place to troubleshoot issues. Although some of the SaaS "no programming needed" incumbents (Caspio, Quickbase) generally seem to have higher pricing, there are a number of startups that look appealing (1 price, no administration hassles of installation and patching of Microsoft+Alphasoftware) plus user management, templates, and backups are included. Other early entrants such as Trackvia seem to have evolved and include support for Google mapping and produce good looking products. Some alternatives may offer less at a lower price (Zoho Creator, KnackHQ) but that may be right-sized for your customer. Alpha had a unique pricing advantage until they moved to the software rental model (SaaS). I can see that they were forced to do this because the current foundation, the Windows Operating System (as with all operating systems now-a-days), is subject to continual updates and security patches.


I have an active developer license and am scheduled for training because I have faith that the people running Alpha are working hard to stay ahead of the competition. Alpha also has an advantage in that the webserver can be installed behind the firewall. That being said, my eyes are continually looking towards the horizon as what is best for the customer is best for me. Over the long run, I think the IDE will need to be free to compete and the hosting and maintenance is what we pay for.

[mikeallenbrown]

Re: Estimating a job

There is always version 11 to consider. Are there critical and/or compelling reasons that you must have V12?

http://www.alphasoftware.com/older.asp

Food for thought

[Clipper87]

Re: Estimating a job

On the last conference back in spring I heard Alpha was working on an Amazon based offer/solution; don't know what the status of that is for now though but you may want to inquire about it.

[Tbrondolo]

Re: Estimating a job

I believe that delivering WEB database applications has added greatly to the complexity of database development and you need code updates to keep it all working. So far my clients have accepted the subscription model and it has also allowed me to sell them new features. A recent example is a time card type system that was built for desktop. With V12 and subscription I was able to sell them rewriting the component so it worked in panels with list controls on desktop and mobile. The response was great, the added cost for them was minimal, roll out was two weeks and I have one code base to maintain for the desktop and mobile side.