Any input about what causes slowdown?

[kingcarol]

I now have many more of my users using my CHS application on the web and we really experience a big slowdown from mid morning to end of work day. My structure is such that my users all have access to my legacy Access application via Remote Desktop Connection and Terminal Services. For now, I have to keep my new web application on the same server because it accesses the same back end database for each customer as the Access application. I think that the number of users logging on to our servers via Terminal Services is actually what causes a big part of the web slow down.... Does anyone have knowledge that will verify this assumption?

My main question, though, is this.... When users log on via RDC / Terminal Services to use my old Access application, it means that their back end Access database is opened and remains open. Is it possible that when the web application needs to retrieve or update data in that back end database, it is slowed down because the file is open? I know the web application goes there, opens it, does what it needs, and then closes it. But the front end Access application that is linked to the back end data file (one for each customer) may already have the file open. I hope I'm making sense. I'm just asking these questions because I'd like to feel like we will probably have increased speed once I am able to move everything to the web on another server (if I EVER get done developing all the logic!)

My application is a very heavy duty job costing and accounting application, so there will always be a lot of callbacks to the server. I think that there are anywhere from 20 to 40 users using the web application within the same hour during the work day right now.

Any general thoughts or input would be greatly appreciated.

[coleresources]

Re: Any input about what causes slowdown?

Carol,

A simple way to see if it's a lack of resources on the terminal server or Alpha WAS is to open up the task manager when the slow-down occurs and see if there are any bottlenecks. For more in-depth information and analytics you can open the resource monitor. Media consumption (I include operating an internet browser in "Media Consumption") on a terminal server is a frustrating experience. Sometimes a more light weight browser such as Google Chrome can improve the experience but that could definitely be the issue. A lack of resources on the TS...The fact that they are using the browser inside of a terminal services session. Where is your server hosted? How much bandwidth has been allocated for your server? What are the specs on your TS and WAS? If you are using a hosting service such as Zebra Host they should be able to give you how much bandwidth you're using during the slow down to see if that could be the issue. Lot of variables.

[coleresources]

Re: Any input about what causes slowdown?

I also don't know how well Access for a back-end scales? Can you access the web version of your app outside of the terminal server?

[kingcarol]

Re: Any input about what causes slowdown?

This is a screenshot of our server config at Rackspace: image.jpg

Around 250 users, maybe 50-60 in any one hour on old app via RDC / Terminal Services. My customers use CHS all day long to run their businesses. When they log on to the web version, they do not go through terminal services. They just use their browsers. When they log on to my old Access app, they do so via a Remote Desktop Connection and Terminal Services (not a browser). It is all on a Windows 2008 server at Rackspace. I need Windows 2008 because later ones don't play well with Access Runtime version I need for my older Access app. I have to keep my back end databases for each client in Access for now.

[kingcarol]

Re: Any input about what causes slowdown?

Josh, we know how to use Task Manager to look at performance and resources and it keeps looking ok to us. The most memory is used by the front end Access application. Every user has their own front end Access application. One thing we notice is that Alpha does not make use of all of our server threads (is that right terminology?). Looks like it just uses a couple of them. We can watch those spike to the top and stay a bit when we send a large data request from Alpha web app to the server.

[coleresources]

Re: Any input about what causes slowdown?

Sorry Carol,

I try not to assume and some of my suggestions are definitely at a basic level and I know it can sound condescending when someone makes those types of suggestions but I don't mean it that way!

Server looks robust. My only question there would be how large is your pipe as in what is your max speed? Where I've COLO'd there were different tiers. 5MB Asynchronous or 10mb Asynchronous and so on. I see that 2000GB is the amount of bandwidth you can use before you are charged an additional amount but that doesn't tell me the speed of the connection. I'd be curious to know if you have a limit in speed that is causing the slow-down.

Does the WAS run on the array that uses SSD's, which array hosts your DB?

I think a single version of WAS should be able to handle 20-40 users but I'll have to look back to see if that is the case. Do you have logging enabled on the WAS? I'll think more on this.

[kingcarol]

Re: Any input about what causes slowdown?

I wish I could partner with someone who knows about this stuff (and javascript) and has time to focus on it for me. I'm so bogged down getting all the logic written and Alpha components (100's and 100's now) needed for full migration away from my Access app. I pay a server technician to manage the server and help my users with connection issues, but he is contract and too busy to give full focus to this. I have't encouraged or sought new customers because I don't want to explain all this double stuff to them so the income right now is not really enough to pay someone to do spend the time for me. I keep thinking I need a partner who would get involved for future reward...

[kingcarol]

Re: Any input about what causes slowdown?

Not sure what 'logging enabled' means. I don't use Alpha security and users. I have my own method for that.

[coleresources]

Re: Any input about what causes slowdown?

I would definitely be interested in talking to you about partnering with you. As you know I have been working for a homebuilder and am probably going to start consulting again within the next few weeks. Let's talk! I understand "Infrastructure" and have supported it on an enterprise scale and have worn many other hats as well. I see the value in what you do and think I could add value to it! It's funny you said that!

[coleresources]

Re: Any input about what causes slowdown?

WAS logs can give you information about potential performance issues as well. It's not only utilized for security purposes.

[bea2701]

Re: Any input about what causes slowdown?

Bandwidth should not be a direct problem unless the legacy Access apps has a lot of remote printing jobs * #users.
There could be a issue with the page locks inside the JET engine sleep proces() it has a default value of 50.
It means every time a record is updated or created there is a page lock in the system page memory as Acces has no knowlegde of record locks
If a TDS user and webapps use the same local database pending on the transaction statements that might rise the number of page locks and exceed the sleep time for each lock page request.
Change to a few settings at the OS level Windows R2 might help see for details http://www.experts-exchange.com/OS/M..._25091616.html. <<In the middle to end of the page>>.
Further notic that enough RAM is available how to calculate what is needed for best performance consult your administrator provider.
Microsoft acknowledge about performane JET engine and what ODBC drivers should be used 32 or 64 bit of your OS type.
So the answer might be in change setting how the Jet Engine responses by user process. At last I assume you handle the transactions at the WAS well by closing the connection.
BTW did you update to AAV3 that will run your webapps into 64 bit mode it will have more RAM available to handle user request and faster response from the WAS.

[kingcarol]

Re: Any input about what causes slowdown?

Reports and printing are a huge part of providing a job cost and accounting solution, so, yes, the Terminal Service users are busily opening and printing reports all day. I do close connection in all functions, etc. in WAS. I updated to a pre-release that was issued not too long before the official AaV3. Since I saw some people having licensing issues, etc., with the new 3 version, I decided to wait a bit. Will probably get latest pre release later today or tomorrow and test it locally a few days. I THINK I might already have a version that runs in 64 bit mode because of that August prerelease I have. Whew, I sure am uncomfortable with all the hardware side of things. Mostly lost. Eric, I will get someone more savvy than me to interpret what you posted. :)

[bea2701]

Re: Any input about what causes slowdown?

If you need more info let me know,, further ask your self these question since when do these problem occure how was the system response before what was altered and where in the system. Just a hint systems behavior changes always have a logical reason [ most cases:grinn] try to analyse the before and after system responses are change between our A and B <in time line>.

[Progytech]

Re: Any input about what causes slowdown?

I THINK I might already have a version that runs in 64 bit mode because of that August prerelease I have

Just to be clear, as far as I know there is not a 64bits version of the Alpha Web Server (AWS), they are simply using a compile directive to allow the server to use up to 4 GB of memory but that is not the same to say it is a 64bits application.

Carol, you have a very impressive server, without taking a look at the AWS log files I could say that the fact that you are using Access database for everything, your RDC and Terminal Server the common point of failing is your database. If possible reboot your server to see if that clears any lagging connections.

I don't know the details of your application, you mention having many customers, so I guess you are using a single database for all your customers, right?. I have experience moving applications to new environments and platform, if you don't have a carefully planned path you may end up having to maintain a dual application longer than expected and that is a real nightmare.

If you want to talk, please send me your phone information via a private message to my email [email protected], sometimes a brief talk is enough to clarify issues.

[bea2701]

Re: Any input about what causes slowdown?

In Carols situation each customer has it's own database that's the Access db used frontend Access by TDS and A5 for webapps by dynamic connection, just to make it clear.