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For a better understanding of the WAS - Web Application Server for Alpha Anywhere - I got some questions...

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    For a better understanding of the WAS - Web Application Server for Alpha Anywhere - I got some questions...

    I have a few question about the WAS that if anyone knows the answer to, I would greatly appreciate it.
    I believe this topic could be helpful to a lot of newbies setting up their own
    WAS for their applications and wanting to get the most performance out of it.
    I know the easy answer is go have ZebraHost to host the server, however it still is a good thing
    to understand the WAS anyway.

    Thank you all for reading through this and sharing any answers and pearls of wisdom you may have.
    Calyxte

    I currently own the Alpha Anywhere development platform with the 4 CPU WAS license.
    To be clear I am not leasing the software but purchased it in 2013.
    I am not sure if leasing it is a different deal or not.

    For leasing the website http://www.alphasoftware.com/buy.asp
    says "4 processors or fewer" and then says "4 CPU"


    1)
    The first question I have is what does Alpha consider 1 CPU?
    I always thought CPU was the actual chip regardless of how many cores the chip may have, IE does it matter to Alpha's license the number of cores within the CPU?

    For Example
    If I am running a server mother board that can hold 4 CPU's, each CPU has 8 cores, would that mean
    the Alpha Server would be running and potentially using all 4 x 8 = 32 cores giving me better performance
    than just one CPU with 8 cores?

    2) Does a single instance of running the WAS only run on one core?

    2.1) If one instance only runs on one core is that what is called single threaded?

    2.2) Does one instance run on multiple cores? If so is that called multi-threaded?

    2.3) In the Forums, I read that people run multiple instances of the WAS for better performance?

    2.4) How does multiple instances of the WAS give better performance?
    Is it one instance per core, so 2 instances would run on 2 cores etc.?

    2.5) Can I run multiple instances on the same machine on as many cores as I want as long as it is 4 CPU's or less?

    3) If running multiple instances is helpful - How can I run multiple instances on the same CPU for the same website to get the best performance?
    I.E. How do I setup the WAS to run multiple instances on the same CPU answering to port # 80 for one website?

    I do not believe a second instance of the WAS can answer to the same port # on one IP address.
    If I had 2 physical network connections on my computer would I bind one instance of the WAS to one of the IP addresses port #80 and
    the second instance of the WAS to the second network card's IP address to port #80 as well?

    IF this is so, is this where a network balancer comes in, to split the data between the two network cards within the one computer both using port #80?

    Or is this where the network balancer comes in, to split the data between the 2 network cards but also sends the data out to a different port number on the second network card?

    How would a network balancer work with one computer with multiple network interfaces?


    I have not found sufficient answers to these questions in the documentation I have read on the site.
    The information I have read seems a bit conflicting because I believe there is a difference in WAS engines from version 10.5 and version 12.
    Even that I am not so sure about.

    Thank you all once again for reading through these questions and sharing what you know with the rest of us.

    Calyxte

    #2
    Re: For a better understanding of the WAS - Web Application Server for Alpha Anywhere - I got some questions...

    This guide can help with your technical questions about multiple instances: http://help.iadn.com/bestpractices/
    Steve Wood
    See my profile on IADN

    Comment


      #3
      Re: For a better understanding of the WAS - Web Application Server for Alpha Anywhere - I got some questions...

      Thank you Steve for the link.

      I did review that document before I wrote these questions to the Forum and it certainly does answer questions about multiple instances setup for multiple projects unfortunately I did not see any mention of multiple instances setup for a single project. Did I miss something?

      I did do some more research and found the following thread
      http://www.alphasoftware.com/alphafo...ight=instances

      In this thread it seems the following and perhaps someone can tell me if this is true.
      For my 4 CPU license

      1) Each instance runs on a single core.
      2) I can have as many instances as I have cores.
      3) For up to 4 CPU's on 1 computer.

      Is this true too?
      4) Each instance must be tied to a different IP if it will have the same port number
      5) Each instance must have a different port number if it is tied to the same IP

      Thanks for the help.
      Calyxte

      Comment


        #4
        Re: For a better understanding of the WAS - Web Application Server for Alpha Anywhere - I got some questions...

        We spent a long time coming to the point of using multiple instances for one project and how to get those into different cores. I am hoping soon that my technician will have a document about how we got there and set it up, with screenshots, because I think it will be helpful to many on this forum. He's working on it and then he will probably start a thread about multiple instances of the web application server. We have been successfully running at better performance with NO sudden stops of the web app servers for a few weeks and are finally breathing a big sign of relief...
        Carol King
        Developer of Custom Homebuilders' Solutions (CHS)
        http://www.CHSBuilderSoftware.com

        Comment


          #5
          Re: For a better understanding of the WAS - Web Application Server for Alpha Anywhere - I got some questions...

          Hi Carol,
          I did read about some of your experiences in a different thread and have figured out much since I have started this thread.
          I would love to hear about your experiences on how you folks do it.
          I do have a few performance questions for you.
          1) I am curious as to how many cores you are running now and on how many servers.
          2) Is it correct to say one instance = 1 core = 1 IP address = 1 Ethernet connection?
          3) How many users would you guesstimate and over what kind of spread of time?
          4) Are you hosting your own?

          A) If so what is your hardware server / network setup that is working for you?
          B) What kind of internet connection do you have?

          Initially I plan on continuing to host my own since my Biz is growing I need a more serious server and that is why I am getting into these performance topics in a more serious way.

          Thank you so much.
          Calyxte
          Last edited by calyxte; 02-12-2015, 08:59 PM.

          Comment


            #6
            Re: For a better understanding of the WAS - Web Application Server for Alpha Anywhere - I got some questions...

            You do not need a separate IP for each instance if you use IIS reverse proxy plus port numbers. See this thread: http://www.alphasoftware.com/alphafo...056#post689056
            Richard Urban

            Grocery Delivery Software for Stores and Entrepreneurs: http://www.urbangrocery.com

            Comment


              #7
              Re: For a better understanding of the WAS - Web Application Server for Alpha Anywhere - I got some questions...

              Richard,
              In your reply you mention how to set it up for multiple websites.
              I am interested in multiple instances to service 1 website.
              How would you go about doing that?
              Thank you.
              Calyxte
              PS I have been to your urbangrocer website and it seems pretty quick. Are you using multiple instances to serve that website?

              Comment


                #8
                Re: For a better understanding of the WAS - Web Application Server for Alpha Anywhere - I got some questions...

                Elbee ... here are step-by-step instructions: https://www.alphasoftware.com/aareso...s-Services.pdf
                Mike Brown - Contact Me
                Programmatic Technologies, LLC
                Programmatic-Technologies.com
                Independent Developer & Consultant​​

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: For a better understanding of the WAS - Web Application Server for Alpha Anywhere - I got some questions...

                  Hello Mike,

                  Yes I reviewed those steps and this is what I am not clear on.

                  Can I use the same port and IP address on each instance?

                  Perhaps it is that simple but I am just missing that point because the documentation I am reading keeps on referring to changing the port or ip address.

                  Would you happen to know this answer?

                  Calyxte

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: For a better understanding of the WAS - Web Application Server for Alpha Anywhere - I got some questions...

                    Originally posted by calyxte View Post
                    Hello Ken,

                    Can I use the same port and IP address on each instance?
                    No you can't. Just one server(ftp, www or any other server) at time can listen to the port. You can use word server or instance it does not make any difference.

                    But one web site can be served from multiple servers but the server listening outside traffic has to be a reverse proxy server. AA server can not be a reverse proxy so you need other one. Because of the nature of how Alphas components route css files and ajax callbacks on the fly you may have problems that are hard to solve. But if you make your own xbasic, css and other code needed there should not be any problems you could not solve. Keep in mind that your servers have to be in same domain to get ajax work so for example my.site.com and site.com and site:85.com are all different domains if you think same-origin policy.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: For a better understanding of the WAS - Web Application Server for Alpha Anywhere - I got some questions...

                      Attached is our internal PDF document regarding our process for finally having a stable environment and using Multiple Instances of Alpha Anywhere. This may or may not work for someone else, but I've been asked to share how we did it. My server technician wrote this document and I am probably not much help in answering very many questions about it. Since I have gained much valuable help from this forum, I am happy to share this if it will help someone else.

                      Setting up Multiple Alpha Instances.pdf
                      Carol King
                      Developer of Custom Homebuilders' Solutions (CHS)
                      http://www.CHSBuilderSoftware.com

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: For a better understanding of the WAS - Web Application Server for Alpha Anywhere - I got some questions...

                        Dear Carol,
                        You are the KING!!!!
                        Thank you so much for providing this information.
                        WOW what a difference this can make.
                        I will be sure to use your instructions as I create my own hosting server.
                        Calyxte

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: For a better understanding of the WAS - Web Application Server for Alpha Anywhere - I got some questions...

                          Hi Carol,
                          The document is more or less sound, the only issue I would take with it is that we would not consider it optimal to use Always Up to bind each instance of Alpha to a specific core... Windows does a much better job handling this dynamically as usage increases and decreases and the functionality of it has greatly improved in Alpha Anywhere especially when using Windows Server 2012...

                          Calyxte
                          I am not certain if I missed this information but the question of how to best configure multiple instance would begin with understanding what the purpose of using multiple instances is.

                          If you intend to use multiple instances to service a single customer you would need a load balancer (to save them from having to divide themselves in Ips or ports)
                          If this is the case you would bind each instance of Alpha to a different IP address and then configure them to the loadbalancer this would allow for your users to use a single point of entry(such as a domain) and then be spread out equally among all of the instances for optimal performance.
                          In this case if you are using an SQL backend you could use a single webroot folder for all instances..

                          If you intend to use multiple instances to service different customer (with the same application or different)
                          The optimal configuration would be to configure Alpha as Carol's document suggests but ultimately it may be best to bind each instance to it's own IP this will allow for your users to access the applications without the need for clunky porting (:8080, 8081)

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: For a better understanding of the WAS - Web Application Server for Alpha Anywhere - I got some questions...

                            Hello Jason,
                            Thanks so much for your reply.

                            Unfortunately there is no single place to find the information I was looking for.
                            I was hoping when I started this thread that some of the other programmers on this site would have those answers to share as would Alpha themselves.
                            Since the time I have started the thread, I have figured out a whole lot of it speaking with some programmers off line and a lot of additional research including visiting a data center myself to get a better understanding how things work. I will be writing and sharing my own in depth document explaining how all the pieces come together in a few months time when I have had a chance to test what I have learned with my own server to see what I think I know is actually accurate.


                            Carol Kings document was very illuminating for me.
                            If I understood her document which can be downloaded from her reply a few replies ago, she says her needs are like mine.
                            One application available to hundreds of her clients. For that she wanted to run the WAS on multiple instances/cores where she found it runs best for her.
                            In addition she says that her server is a Windows 2008 R2 and before using Always up the server would not do a great job running multiple instances of the WAS.
                            This is also something that many other users have said over the years as well.

                            You did say something very interesting however and perhaps you would be so kind to go into more detail about it.
                            You said:
                            The document is more or less sound, the only issue I would take with it is that we would not consider it optimal to use Always Up to bind each instance of Alpha to a specific core... Windows does a much better job handling this dynamically as usage increases and decreases and the functionality of it has greatly improved in Alpha Anywhere especially when using Windows Server 2012...

                            Could you explain how windows server 2012 would do this dynamically? In other words how would the server add another instance of the WAS bounded to another core and another IP?
                            Or are you saying the one instance of the WAS somehow has the smarts to work with many additional cores/threads as additional load is put on the WAS?

                            I.E. Within your ZebraHost data center how are your servers setup to handle a few hundred (to even a few thousand) concurrent users in an accounting environment like the one that Carol has described, where these users are processing their accounting data throughout the day. What is the uptime of these servers, any restarting needed?

                            Jason thanks again for your interest in this thread and your information.

                            Calyxte

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: For a better understanding of the WAS - Web Application Server for Alpha Anywhere - I got some questions...

                              Elbee,

                              My understanding is the Alpha program looks at the usage on the available cores and picks one with low usage. So, it is dynamic each time the web application server starts.

                              I've tried assigning cores in AlwaysUp and have tried letting Alpha take care of it, and letting Alpha do it seems to work better. But, be sure to space out the startups as mentioned in this and some other threads so that Alpha can get a true picture of core use. You want to give the core that the first instance picked time to get in use by the web server instance before picking the next one. Otherwise all the instances might pick the same core.
                              Pat Bremkamp
                              MindKicks Consulting

                              Comment

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