Modern authentication

[Mike Wilson]

email_smtp_open(P pSocket ,C smtp_server [,N port [,C username [,C password [,C mode ]]]]).
There are only so many parameters to this Alpha function. If there is a required data element required to pass their authentication process upon submission other than what is in the parameters sent by the existing Alpha function, then I would believe that Alpha does indeed have something to do with it.

This is a disturbing thread, yet I am very thankful for it, because our IT backup group has been pushing for us to convert to Microsoft 365. More fuel to how the decisions by Big Tech can produce crippling consequences.

[MikeC]

It is even more involved than that Mike. In order to utilize SMTP securely(without using a set password) we have to be able to communicate with Office 365(or any other email client) to be authenticated and then aquire a Token which is basically a short lived password. I believe we can do this with HTTP_Fetch() or HTTP_Post() but I cannot test this without Office 365 being set up to allow this...so i cannot verify that it will work. The client's email IT refuses to set it up so the project is no longer being considered. Other current email sending software that I have seen(such as Mandrill/MailChimp) also do not meet the OAuth standards.

I believe all that Alpha can really add to their email functions is to have an argument that will enable the use of SPF/DKIM when sending...If HTTP_Fetch() or HTTP_Post() does not work then they would also need to add something as well...we won't know until someone has the capability of testing them.

[Ted Giles]

Mike C.
Have you a colleague with 365 on board who will let you fiddle?
I will ask on our RAD group if anyone has used this.

Edit.
This is spookie!
We have a council project being developed which will cost a bunch of money.
The Head of Highways had all my email about it "junked" afterthey migrated to a managed 365.
A Mayor, I usually get a quick response. I will be complaining!

[MikeC]

Ted, I use Office 365 via a large QuickBooks consulting company in which I am their main subcontractor for creating custom reporting and apps for their clients. They have an outside IT department that would have to be paid to set up anything regarding this...unless sending emails via SMTP becomes a common occurrence, they are not going to spend money for my testing. :-(

If you(or anyone here) has a way to test out using SMTP OAuth it would be great. I would definitely want to see if it can be done using current Alpha functions.

[martinwcole]

also, use Alpha to send to a special account of theirs, and they can then send themselves

[madtowng]

The problem, as described, is the firm that handles the clients email wants their oauth to be used to send email, but they haven't divulged the method to accomplish that.
Until that happens, things are as deadlocked as congress.
As for MicroSoft and Alpha, I had a lengthy call with MS support about options for 3rd party apps sending email via O365.
They are not abandoning my preferring authorization method, they just force new(er) clients to enable the feature.
As for MS Oauth, you get the process in motion by registering your app with Azure AD.
I'll know more once I free up enough time to actually mess around with it.

[MikeC]

I believe that the app has to be registered within the Office 365/Azure that the client has. This app is a very simple one. It is designed to send an email to each manager within the company network(most in different offices, buildings, states...) and include specified attachments. Right now they are either using USPS or sometimes an email to do this for each manager(about 200 of them). They wanted to do this more or less automatically just by pushing a button within an app....which is what I built for them.

It really should not be that hard to do once Office 365/Azure is set up to do so. Even though they have rejected the application I built(I will still be billing them as it will work under the initial paradigm they told me to build it for), I still want to figure out how to do this for future clients. I just need to be able to test it. I believe any Office 365/Azure set up will work if I have the correct information from anyone...and that an app name is registered. Once set up I will just try to use Alpha's HTTP functions to connect and see if I can get an authorization code which then will allow me to obtain a token. If this is accomplished then I believe Alpha's SMTP functions should work.

I appreciate the responses here. I had hoped someone else had already been through this as I understand Microsoft has been planning to do this for about 2 years now and it simply got delayed for various reasons. I had no clue about it as I have only built a few email apps over the years.

[madtowng]

For what it's worth, this is the registration that starts the process.
The folks at MicroSoft have actually been quite friendly and helpful.
Capture.PNG

[kkfin]

I believe that the app has to be registered within the Office 365/Azure that the client has. This app is a very simple one. It is designed to send an email to each manager within the company network(most in different offices, buildings, states...) and include specified attachments. Right now they are either using USPS or sometimes an email to do this for each manager(about 200 of them). They wanted to do this more or less automatically just by pushing a button within an app....which is what I built for them.

It really should not be that hard to do once Office 365/Azure is set up to do so. Even though they have rejected the application I built(I will still be billing them as it will work under the initial paradigm they told me to build it for), I still want to figure out how to do this for future clients. I just need to be able to test it. I believe any Office 365/Azure set up will work if I have the correct information from anyone...and that an app name is registered. Once set up I will just try to use Alpha's HTTP functions to connect and see if I can get an authorization code which then will allow me to obtain a token. If this is accomplished then I believe Alpha's SMTP functions should work.

I appreciate the responses here. I had hoped someone else had already been through this as I understand Microsoft has been planning to do this for about 2 years now and it simply got delayed for various reasons. I had no clue about it as I have only built a few email apps over the years.

I wonder if you could use a different approach to this problem. Maybe you could solve this using an Office365 account and MS Power automate connectors. >You could just send your file to an Office365 acount and then use Power automate connectors to do the job further.

Kenneth

[MikeC]

I am not familiar with power automate connectors but if it uses SMTP OAuth then it might work.

I did find out that Microsoft will allow developers to have a 30-90 day Office 365 "sandbox" to use to develop applications. I will have to give this a try when I get a break from my ongoing projects. The client no longer is interested in pursuing this but I figure I had better learn how to accomplish this for future clients.

[kkfin]

I am not familiar with power automate connectors but if it uses SMTP OAuth then it might work.

I did find out that Microsoft will allow developers to have a 30-90 day Office 365 "sandbox" to use to develop applications. I will have to give this a try when I get a break from my ongoing projects. The client no longer is interested in pursuing this but I figure I had better learn how to accomplish this for future clients.

What I did suggest is that you just send your file to an Office365 account email address (using Alphas SMTP). So you do not need any SMTP Oauth. Then use this accounts Power automate feature to process this email automatically (using emails subject filter in flow to separate email from others). You can process (send to others) many ways this emai if needed. But you need to have Office365 account or you need to use your customers account.

I have found that especially Office365 Power Automate is very interesting feature for Alpha developer. It makes things possible and opens doors. I recommend getting the premium connectors.

Edit: Power Automate is intresting because using connectors you can interact with Alpha Desktop application. There are many ways. Email is one, Sql Server is an other. But there are many other ways.

But the basic consept is that when something happens in database/email/onedrive/google sheets and so on you can do something using triggers. For example when you create a record in sql server using Alphas Desktop application office365 flow will note this automatically and use this data to create a business report and fills for example a Word template (you have created) and emails this word report to somebody.


Kenneth

[Rich Hartnett]

MikeC did you ever get this working? I am dealing with a similar situation here. I have a simple grid used to send alerts to police commanders. It works perfectly with a generic gmail account, but if I try to use a more professional Office365 (agency) account, it will not send. In my case, our agency uses MFA (multi-factor authentication) which of course won't work with an Alpha SMTP function, so I created an "app password" to get around MFA, but that didn't work either. Then I had the company that manages our Office365 account disable the MFA option on this specific email address, and then tried it with the non-app password, and is still doesn't work.

Just wondering if you'd had any better luck?

[MikeC]

The client required the use of OAuth. I found three ways to do this but they were not willing to set it up...and, of course, I could not set it up as it requires access to their Office 365 to make the necessary additions. So, even though I believe I have a way to use OAuth with SMTP, I have not verified that it works. I also have found an Office 365 sandbox that should allow me to test out the three ways on my own but have not done so as I currently have no projects now that require it. I will eventually do it though as a future client may want the same.

[MikeC]

In your situation, make sure that the special password is generated via Office 365 to use as it is required for all third party apps to work....the client would also have to use this password for sending their emails once changed as well.