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Feature Packs

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    #16
    Re: Feature Packs

    Originally posted by Bob Moore View Post
    I m a big fan of a subscription based model. Pay a set annual fee (or monthly payments) and get all updates and new releases. The cost is something that you can budget for and you don't feel like you are being taken advantage of as a captive customer.

    It's a win / win situation for all parties concerned.

    Autodesk used this technique quite successfully for it's upgrades.
    I think this is what your have at the present.
    Upgrading from 9 to 10.x [upgrade cost/months lifecycle] = average monthly cost. Other vendors ask higher prices for subscription, update support etc.

    Comment


      #17
      Re: Feature Packs

      Originally posted by Richard Rabins View Post
      You will see below that Alpha Five's pricing is a small fraction of our competitors. In fact we are often asked by people who are new to Alpha why are prices are so low??? ( because they know the cost of our competitors.) We tend to respond that our philosophy is to keep our product affordable and within reach of developers of all sizes
      1. Iron Speed: $2,795.
      2. OutSystem Agile Platform: $49 per user of an application per month. Equals to $6,000 a year for 10 or $60,000 a year for 100 users.
      3. Visual LANSA: Not posted on their web site, but we were given a quote by the company which stated "about $15,000 for first deployment server, and $5,000 for every additional server. "
      I don't have anything to complain against Alphas pricing model. Also Feature Packs are good but only if customers feel that way. I must say that exporting to excel as a Feature Pack product don't seem to me as a fair play.

      What comes to Alphas competitors today I have a very different feel. When Alphas users are now learning to use (X)HTML, XML, JAVASCRIPT, CSS and most of all SQL the real competitor are in traditional web markets: using open source librarys, tools and frameworks with some commercial developing tools. Zend is a good example of Alphas competitors. You just have to change xbasic to some other scripting language and you are ready to use these tools.

      In Version 10 Alpha has also a big problem in concentrating just for grid development and this is reason why Alpha version 10 feels today just almost like a grid utility.

      Ken

      Comment


        #18
        Re: Feature Packs

        Originally posted by Richard Rabins View Post
        Peter, I think you may be comparing apples to oranges

        The $599 you paid was not just for the developer version but included other licenses.

        ...
        I was half-kidding when I said Alpha owes me $450 (at least half my posts are half-kidding). Went back and checked my invoice and it was for both a WAS license + v10 developer. So looking at the latest promo, that same pack now goes for $359, therefore you only owe me $240. Just kidding. Alpha doesn't owe me anything :(. I know how the pricing schemes work. If you don't like the price, don't buy, wait a while, and eventually the price will come down. This is just basic market driven economics. There's no grudge here against Alpha. Personally, I haven't (yet) bought any of the feature packs because to date I haven't had a need. And they are way cool . And I can see it from both sides. Alpha needs a revenue stream, esp. in these difficult economic times, and users always want everything for nothing. But there is some truth to the notion that the sum of the parts cost more that the whole. Currently, (if my numbers are right):

        File image upload/download 3-pack: $249
        Five pack (Advanced Search, Tree Control, Grid Components for Desktop, Flying Start, Excel and ASCII): $199
        TOC: $99
        Upsize Database: $249
        ================
        Total: $796

        vs.

        v10.5 developer: $129
        or
        WAS license + v10 developer: $359

        But one does wonder, if the "feature-pack paradigm" were applied in years past, what functionality that we now take for granted, would be optional "pay-ins"? Really, I don't think there is necessarily any right or wrong to it. Ultimately the market will control (to some degree at least) what's extra and what's not.
        Peter
        AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

        [email protected]
        https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


        Comment


          #19
          Re: Feature Packs

          Hi...
          I tend to agree with most of the pro comments on the feature packs/Alpha, but.....what I have not heard, and this could sway my opinion somewhat, is whether or not these feature packs can be produced by a developer on their own for the most part.....or that they are impossible to create without the feature pack.

          I have been waiting to hear someone else ask this but apparently I may be one of the few that would even consider "creating their own" when you can just buy it.....I always consider doing it myself as I have yet to find anything created by someone else to have everything that I want or how I want it to be....and unless these feature packs can be easily modified to suit various needs then yes, I would probably want/need to create my own.

          Anyone know anything regarding these points?
          Mike
          __________________________________________
          It is only when we forget all our learning that we begin to know.
          It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
          Henry David Thoreau
          __________________________________________



          Comment


            #20
            Re: Feature Packs

            Originally posted by Bob Moore View Post
            I m a big fan of a subscription based model. Pay a set annual fee (or monthly payments) and get all updates and new releases. The cost is something that you can budget for and you don't feel like you are being taken advantage of as a captive customer.

            It's a win / win situation for all parties concerned.

            Autodesk used this technique quite successfully for it's upgrades.
            I have a different feeling about subscription or service contract based systems. As an IT manager I deal with these all the time and as long as you are getting value(ie: updates on a regular basis) then it's not a bad deal. More often then not though you are paying monthly and often not seeing any imporvements or changes for months. Sometimes years.

            What I find annoying is most of those pricing schemes are based on number of users. This quickly becomes an issue when your company grows and you now find yourself facing increasing costs...often not budgeted for.

            I guess what I find most amazing about the Alpha team is their willingness to hear and act on what the user base is asking for and suggesting. I do have a couple software packages that are "service contract based" and unless you are willing to pay for it they won't even talk to you.

            I could be wrong here since I wouldn't consider myself even close to an expert on programming in Alpha but from what I can see the feature packs are goodies to help create applications quicker and easier without having to learn in depth programming. The experts on here could confirm if I am interpreting this right but I think they could produce the same results with time and effort.

            Comment


              #21
              Re: Feature Packs

              Originally posted by kkfin View Post
              I don't have anything to complain against Alphas pricing model. Also Feature Packs are good but only if customers feel that way. I must say that exporting to excel as a Feature Pack product don't seem to me as a fair play.

              What comes to Alphas competitors today I have a very different feel. When Alphas users are now learning to use (X)HTML, XML, JAVASCRIPT, CSS and most of all SQL the real competitor are in traditional web markets: using open source librarys, tools and frameworks with some commercial developing tools. Zend is a good example of Alphas competitors. You just have to change xbasic to some other scripting language and you are ready to use these tools.

              In Version 10 Alpha has also a big problem in concentrating just for grid development and this is reason why Alpha version 10 feels today just almost like a grid utility.

              Ken
              Ken --

              The Alpha Grid component is WAY more than a grid utility

              are you aware of the following capabilities and examples?

              https://docs.google.com/document/pub...jCUv0FsZTgzUcc

              The vast majority of our customers (ranging from SMB's, enterprises and Gov users world wide - who are aware of alternatives to Alpha Five) are reporting back to us that they are finding Alpha Five to be an incredibly productive tool (compared to alternatives like php, ruby, visual studio.net etc.) In addition they are reporting that they especially like the completeness of the tool because of things like the built in security framework http://www.ajaxvideotutorials.com/we...ebSecurity.ppt, the reporting capability (have you looked at the cost of Crystal Reports recently) http://www.imakenews.com/alphasoftwa...x000432646.cfm, the richness of xbasic, the event model with the tie in to javascript, the support for REST web services
              http://blog.alphasoftware.com/2010/0...-v10-with.html

              I want to again thank everyone for the useful and spirited discussion on this thread and most importantly for your interest and support.

              Best Regards
              Richard Rabins
              Co Chairman
              Alpha Software

              Comment


                #22
                Re: Feature Packs

                Originally posted by rderksen View Post
                I have a different feeling about subscription or service contract based systems. As an IT manager I deal with these all the time and as long as you are getting value(ie: updates on a regular basis) then it's not a bad deal. More often then not though you are paying monthly and often not seeing any imporvements or changes for months. Sometimes years.

                What I find annoying is most of those pricing schemes are based on number of users. This quickly becomes an issue when your company grows and you now find yourself facing increasing costs...often not budgeted for.

                I guess what I find most amazing about the Alpha team is their willingness to hear and act on what the user base is asking for and suggesting. I do have a couple software packages that are "service contract based" and unless you are willing to pay for it they won't even talk to you.

                I could be wrong here since I wouldn't consider myself even close to an expert on programming in Alpha but from what I can see the feature packs are goodies to help create applications quicker and easier without having to learn in depth programming. The experts on here could confirm if I am interpreting this right but I think they could produce the same results with time and effort.
                Thank you for your comments here - The functionality of the feature packs could in theory be duplicated by customers of ours. Knowing the effort that went into them, it is likely that the time and money spent on duplicating them would likely be a very poor investment compared to the cost of the feature packs. The decision calculus for our customers is very simple - if a feature pack is useful to you - then it is a great deal in terms of ROI (building it yourself would be a huge waste of time.) If any particular feature pack is not useful, then it makes no sense to spend any money on that feature back
                Last edited by Richard Rabins; 08-29-2010, 01:40 PM.
                Richard Rabins
                Co Chairman
                Alpha Software

                Comment


                  #23
                  Re: Feature Packs

                  Originally posted by Peter.Greulich View Post
                  File image upload/download 3-pack: $249
                  In my opinion this is a basic functionality of a web program. Download/Upload.

                  $249/�174? I think who pays the price really needs it.

                  But before you buy it you should think a moment: Why this basic functionality is not built in to this advanced developing tool with Godeless Ajax?

                  Ken

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Re: Feature Packs

                    uploading a file from a local machine to a server may be basic functionality.

                    BUT the image/file feature packs do much more than that

                    for example

                    mapping to the right place in the database
                    taking advantage of the full security model
                    the ability to have these files be embedded into the html editor
                    more

                    I would encourage anyone interested in these feature packs to review all the recorded demos here http://www.imakenews.com/alphasoftwa...x000462492.cfm and then make a decision as to whether they see value in them or not. (So far we have sold of LOT of these and have received very good feedback on their power, their utility and their usefulness.)
                    Richard Rabins
                    Co Chairman
                    Alpha Software

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Re: Feature Packs

                      Originally posted by Richard Rabins View Post
                      I would encourage anyone interested in these feature packs to review all the recorded demos
                      As I mentioned before Feature Packs are a good thing from Alpha. I hope there will be new ones too. It is just a good thing that a customer have choices.

                      Is this list updated. I don't find the file upload utility? Are there others?

                      Ken

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Re: Feature Packs

                        Originally posted by kkfin View Post
                        In my opinion this is a basic functionality of a web program. Download/Upload.

                        $249/�174? I think who pays the price really needs it.

                        But before you buy it you should think a moment: Why this basic functionality is not built in to this advanced developing tool with Godeless Ajax?

                        Ken
                        Hi Ken

                        I know my hourly rate and know that it would have "cost me" much more to try and create that functionality. Same as Steve Wood's Alphatogo template. I could argue I could have done that all myself and probably could BUT it has saved me a fantastic amount of time so was well worth the investment.

                        Just my two minutes worth!
                        Glen Schild



                        My Blog

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Re: Feature Packs

                          Originally posted by kkfin View Post
                          Is this list updated. I don't find the file upload utility? Are there others?
                          This is the "real" list:

                          http://downloads.alphasoftware.com/a...60635869960943
                          Peter
                          AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

                          [email protected]
                          https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


                          Comment


                            #28
                            Re: Feature Packs

                            Originally posted by glenschild View Post
                            I know my hourly rate and know that it would have "cost me" much more to try and create that functionality. Same as Steve Wood's Alphatogo template. I could argue I could have done that all myself and probably could BUT it has saved me a fantastic amount of time so was well worth the investment.
                            You need it you buy it. That how it works. Nothing to complain.

                            But what comes with CMS I would never built that myself. I have always used TikiWiki and will continue to use it. I don't even think to use Alpha for that.

                            And what comes pure Web pages templates I use for them third party tools. They work fine with Alpha.

                            Ken

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Re: Feature Packs

                              I have never complained about Alpha pricing. Actually I personally do not mind paying $600+ IF there is a decent learning tool that is comprehensive and uptodate that comes with it. I can easily recoup the $600+ on the 1st project. I am not a seasoned developer but I do know that what one can produce with A5 is sold in the thousand of $ by other programmers using other tools. BUT the amount of time I spend learning A5 is high due to lack of decent doc. If I multiply the nbr of hours spent in trial and error trying to figure out things, even @ $3/hr amounts to several hundred dollars. The learning time and frustration more that make up for the low A5 price.
                              On the other hand it is a real fact that little guys like me cannot afford to use any other competitive product because they are outrageously expensive AND complicated.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Re: Feature Packs

                                I think Alpha's reasonable pricing attracted us all one way or another so it would be good if it where to stay reasonable. On the other hand compare the cost of a feature pack against what you charge your customers for custom built code. Finally I believe we (Alpha & us the developers) have a mutual interest; we need each other. I'd be ready to pay a reasonable fee for 'maintenance & upgrades' on a yearly basis and then if Alpha would offer a number of versions (with no,few or all extra features for example) it would be up to me to choose which flavor. Combine that with a flexible upgrade/downgrade system and we're all set. Alpha has a nice steady cash flow allowing them to be even more creative and on top of things, we are assured Alpha will always be around and bring us new & better tools again & again.

                                That said I also believe pricing should be fair for everyone at all time -ethical- and not the way airlines do these days; I just hate to be on the same flight and sit next to someone who paid half the price for the same flight. If you're after loyal customers be loyal to them.
                                Frank

                                Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand

                                Comment

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