Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conundrum

[Steve Wood]

Re: Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conund

Bob,

I can see that pre-testing model in a large-company, but difficult given that most of us are small shops.

Anyway, I take a different approach due to the size of my company and my faith in Alpha - as needed:

I typically wait a week or two before committing. During that time I listen to conversations on the forum, I discuss with my inside group (a half dozen or so guys/gals seen frequently on this forum) and I play with some of the new features on my Scratch application.

When I finally do patch up, I do it for ALL of my applications currently under production and all applications running on my servers for all clients, all at once. For instance, all of my client applications are now on V11 WAS, even though the native code is V11, V10 or V9. Obviously there are certian things I need to do to a V10 or V9 application to make it run on V11 WAS, but not much. There are also things I should do in them to take advantage of V11, but I often delay that step. I have complete faith in Alpha -- IF I find that something slipped by and broke due to the patch, I can fix it, work around it, or get Alpha to fix it.

Having said that, I am also conservative in my programming. I DON'T put in newely released Feature Pack stuff until I know how to use them, which takes long enough to find out if they have any problems.

Bob - also wanted to say I visited your website and reviewed your Proposed A5 Tutorial - nice to have you on board.

[forskare]

Re: Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conund

I have complete faith in Alpha -- IF I find that something slipped by and broke due to the patch, I can fix it, work around it, or get Alpha to fix it.

Ahhh Steve, but that's the difference. You have the ability fix it. I dare say, most Alpha folks do not. After all, that's why they bought Alpha. They didn't need to have the ability. You expertise is such that Alpha holds you, as well as several others, in high esteem, enough so that when you "bark", they listen. Most of us are not in that league. My curiosity would like you to elaborate a bit and explain what you mean when you say "I have complete faith in Alpha". What is it where you have complete faith?

kenn

[SNusa]

Re: Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conund

..... slow down a bit to catch your breath by making sure the small stuff works. If you don't, you will eventually find yourself in a "meltdown" and someone else will take your place, using your product or parts of it, to start their own merry-go-round.......

.....Now that's something to think about. Not only does it apply to Alpha, but it applies to all of us as individuals as well. Life is a merry-go-round. Sometimes we must slow it down to smell the roses.

Hello Ken, I couldn't agree more with your post!

[Richard Rabins]

Re: Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conund

Kenn

when you state the following

"You expertise is such that Alpha holds you, as well as several others, in high esteem, enough so that when you "bark", they listen."

We are not perfect and certainly not superhuman but we do try to take all feedback seriously and spend a LOT of time investigating any issues that people raise.

On the broader topic of the rate at which we bring out new features we are living in a fast moving world and we feel that constantly innovating is important!

For example if you look at one of the feature packs that will be released soon http://view.exacttarget.com/?j=fe5a1...726d05747c1371 you are able to build functionality into your site/app in about 30 minutes that otherwise would take days or weeks.

At the end of the day productivity is key here.

Another example -- here is an email I received this week from an Alpha Five customer


Robin Bennett
Feb 24 (2 days ago)

to me, selwyn
http://robinbennett.blogspot.com/201...lpha-five.html

Took us 5 days in total…

Robin Bennett
Director
Start Technology (Software) Ltd
Winners of the ICT Excellence Award



e: [email protected]
startsoftware

[SNusa]

Re: Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conund

Ahhh Steve, but that's the difference. You have the ability fix it. I dare say, most Alpha folks do not. After all, that's why they bought Alpha. They didn't need to have the ability. You expertise is such that Alpha holds you, as well as several others, in high esteem, enough so that when you "bark", they listen. Most of us are not in that league. My curiosity would like you to elaborate a bit and explain what you mean when you say "I have complete faith in Alpha". What is it where you have complete faith?

kenn

That's the reality of things. Alpha has gone "high scale" and is designing a product for advanced users/developers. (intentionally or not) It's a complex tool, "not for the faint of heart", to say the least..... (You have to be very disciplined to become proficient.) Whether this is good or bad in the long run, I don't know. But a casual user just can't develop a level of proficiency without a considerable investment in time. And very few "casual users" even have the time in the first place anyways, so this may be a moot issue.........

Maybe the two split versions (desktop only and web only) will help realign the product for the less tech savvy users.... Time will tell.

~Actually, the way Alpha used to sell their entry level product makes the most sense to me: Sell a previous desktop version to "newbies" at a significantly reduced price WITHOUT THE ABILITY TO REPORT BUGS. ~ This enables "newbies" on board with "hardened" / more refined code at a great deal.... Fewer problems means easier learning and less frustrations for everyone..... (And of course, the users that stick with it will want to buy future versions and help build a larger user-base)........

[peteconway]

Re: Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conund

At the end of the day productivity is key here.

- Richard - I agree with you.. that's the whole point of this thread, reliability and consistency brings productivity. - It's a great product Richard - make it better by, making it better, then grow it in functionality - small steps can also travel far..

[Steve Wood]

Re: Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conund

A couple mis-statements about me in last few posts. I am not any elite Alpha programmer. I work hard, and I screw up a lot and use Trial and Error like anyone else. I don't know SQL, CSS or coming well enough, and I am still comming to grips with client-side and e. I don't "bark" at Alpha, that would be shooting myself in the foot, plus they have earned my respect and don't owe me anything. If I need something I ask and use my resources. There are many recent brand new developers up here with far less knowledge than me, and building products equal or better than what I might build. In fact, I get my inspiration from them; ladies.

Someone asked me to elaborate on my statement "I have complete faith in Alpha". There are two answers to that: 1) the product is stable, I've never lost a project and never lost more than a few days due to any bug, its keeping up with technology and ahead of the curve, and 2) having complete faith is the only way to get anything done -- I've adopted the attitude that if something doesn't work, that this is MY problem. Like even if there were a real bug keeping me from moving forward. Well, that's MY problem, not theirs. And if I want it fixed, and only Alpha can do it, that is still my problem. If for some strange reason they don't fix it, gotta move on.

[peteconway]

Re: Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conund

Good words Steve... I'm also coming to grips with many things, and like you rely totally on this product for my income week-to-week (there would not be many on this board in that situation i'd say), so reliability is king. And like you, many come to me for development and assistance and mentoring and that generates income - but that's not the income I'm relying on, it's applications and they have to work..and work..and work... As for me sounding negative and being written off as a waste of time, well time will tell.. but i'll say it again "Reliability is King". As for what my issue is with Selwyn, well it's certainly not his ability.

[Steve Wood]

Re: Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conund

If we want apps that work forever, we should go back to DOS. Really, I have several DOS apps that just won't quit. I'm even installing DOSBox on a family members new Windows 7 machine so they can continue to run an application I wrote for them in 1993.

[peteconway]

Re: Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conund

Good old DOS - re

If we want apps that work forever, we should go back to DOS. Really

- between builds would be just fine, forever - well you never know..

[bobalston]

Re: Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conund

On a different aspect, about the little black sambo story, I thought we couldn't use that any more because it was not politically correct :)

Bob

[forskare]

Re: Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conund

Hello Richard,

We are not perfect and certainly not superhuman but we do try to take all feedback seriously and spend a LOT of time investigating any issues that people raise.

That's why I said in Post #87, "It is good for Alpha to read this type of thread." I don't believe the comments on this thread are meant to be negative towards Alpha or are in mean spirit. Rather, my posts #58 and #87 reflect exactly your next comment.

On the broader topic of the rate at which we bring out new features we are living in a fast moving world and we feel that constantly innovating is important!

The whole point of the comments made by me and others is that Alpha is truly a great revolutionary product. Because Alpha is what it is, there will be hiccups and frustrations; another reason for the “pups to bark”. The ‘criticism’ here should be taken as positive, just letting Alpha know there are issues which need to be addressed.

Kenn

[Richard Rabins]

Re: Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conund

Kenn - I appreciate your comments greatly. Thanks.

On a point I made in my earlier post about taking ALL feedback from everyone seriously, I just wanted wanted to mention a recent situation we had with a customer (one of the people on this thread) who contacted us about their app saying that certain aspects were slow. We spent a good amount of time analyzing the app and were able to trace it back to the fact that the app is using Access MDB files as its backend vs a SQL database. We then ran the same app against SQL and saw speed improvements in the 10X range.

[kingcarol]

Re: Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conund

That person on this thread with the slow navigation issue was me. And I raise a toast in salute to the Alpha staff that stopped to spend time analyzing the issue in various ways, not just SQL vs Access. They tested it thoroughly before drawing their final conclusion, and saved me a ton of time trying to figure out all kinds of ways to test what was causing the slow down. Yes, it has been my 100% experience, that Alpha pays attention to its users.

[Richard Rabins]

Re: Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conund

Thanks for the kind comments Carol

For people interested in this topic here is the full thread. Scroll to the posting that selwyn made today please for some actual speed data from our testing

http://msgboard.alphasoftware.com/al...723#post600723

Thanks