Whiney Baby after Mar 10 update - lost format of all numbers and older percent fields

[kingcarol]

I know how to fix the problems, but it's going to kill a day or more just cuz I got the update for something else I needed... and I just wonder why this has to happen... whiney baby video: http://screencast.com/t/o8rJoEiGkP

[Keith Hubert]

Re: Whiney Baby after Mar 10 update - lost format of all numbers and older percent fi

Hi Carol,

One question, were these alterations mentioned in the release notes? Which I'm sure you read first!!!!

[kingcarol]

Re: Whiney Baby after Mar 10 update - lost format of all numbers and older percent fi

I do read the release notes first (altho some of it is over my head). I just went back and did a Find on the Release Notes page (which goes back to Octboer) and did not find anything talking about how formats from an older Display Format builder would no longer work. I did see where they were having to take care of stuff about commas and formats and reserved words, so maybe in all of that, they had to do something to improve the Display Format. I get it... but I just get tired when a bunch of my stuff that was ok is now not ok.. makes me want to avoid upgrades... cuz the more grids I build, the more I always have to go back through and fix to work with latest upgrade. I know they are working to have the best product.... and this is why these things happen... just felt whiney about it this morning...

[madtowng]

Re: Whiney Baby after Mar 10 update - lost format of all numbers and older percent fi

Something Alpha we should all be well trained on by now, yet many of us ignore it out of laziness, is to backup the files before doing the upgrade.

[kingcarol]

Re: Whiney Baby after Mar 10 update - lost format of all numbers and older percent fi

I always back up before installing, and I always keep copies of previous install exe files (naming them with dates). I have just rolled back to the Jan 10 update that has been working pretty well for me. Had to grab a couple of my grids from my backup because something about the new update broke my Enable Expressions on them, and that problem remained after rolling back to the Jan 10 version. When I put my backup grids back in, my Enable Expressions became ok again.

[peteconway]

Re: Whiney Baby after Mar 10 update - lost format of all numbers and older percent fi

Keith, backward comparability is a must, in the same products development. What has happened to Carol is totally unacceptable, and if known about by Alpha, a display of arrogance to developer needs. If backward compatibility cannot be assured, then "the product" needs "another name" so it's clear it's not the same product and cannot be relied on to provide continuity.

[Keith Hubert]

Re: Whiney Baby after Mar 10 update - lost format of all numbers and older percent fi

Hi Peter,

I totally agree, backward comparability is a must, in the same products development. I recall there was a problem with a new version of Alpha, when [ ] had either to be or not used instead of what was already there. If such a change as Carol has found has been done, then it is only right that a notice should be put out.

Carol's plight would unfortunately be just the same, a developer would have to hunt down all those changes, before any end user or paying customer got upset by error messages that would surely pop up.

[kingcarol]

Re: Whiney Baby after Mar 10 update - lost format of all numbers and older percent fi

This particular problem had to do with losing formatting on all numbers (which doesn't make people using an accounting program happy). I had used the Display Format builder as it was several months ago to format numbers and percents. The percent format now threw an error and grids with percents on them would not open. I guess the Display Format builder has been providing a different format for several months, but I had been copying grids I have as templates so format continued in those, and the formats continued to work. Something changed in the last few builds (not sure which since I had been sticking with the Jan 10 build until now). But.... I did decide to install the latest one again (Mar 12) and spent all day yesterday changing all those formats in my many, many grids. I decided that was probably best for the future. Then late yesterday I read another post here that the HTML editor is broken in this build.... and sure enough... it is.... no Close or Save buttons. Alpha says they are working on it. I have now opened every grid in the latest build to fix formats, and am concerned to roll back after doing that.... don't want to use my backup cuz I don't want to lose all the re-formatting I just did. So..... now am stuck with this build with broken HTML editor (which is used quite a bit in my app). Am not able to deploy and give my customers some of the latest I've been promising them..... aaaaargh

[JerryBrightbill]

Re: Whiney Baby after Mar 10 update - lost format of all numbers and older percent fi

Making a program 100% backwards compatible is a laudable goal and one we try to maintain at all times. But sometimes it isn't possible. It is was, you could still run Windows 3.0 programs on Windows 7 without modification. As programs evolve, solutions that made perfect sense when designed may later may show some limitations. In this instance, a number of international users pointed out that our method to support regional numeric formats was flawed. We were relying on the developer adding a display format using str() to set the display, but in some instances, that required some functionality to be turned off, such as write conflict checking.

Working with a number of developers we recognized the original display format methodology for numbers worked, but was fundamentally flawed. After many hours of analysis and a couple users testing many various solutions, we found a proper solution, which was to automatically support the regional formats without the need for display formats. However, we knew that could break some existing display formats that used str() to convert numbers. We were faced with a decision to correct the functionality and potentially break some user code, or leave the old method in place which effectively prevented many international users from using the full functionality of the program. Part of the determining factor was another decision made quite some time ago for a completely different reason to change the syntax to convert numbers to character by using convert_type(). This V11 method worked fine with the changes for regional formatting.

However, when the last piece of the update was put in place, we learned that some users running grids built some time ago still used str() and this failed with the new code. A fix is already in place in the next build to allow str() to be used against numeric or character values, and now the new process IS 100% compatible with the older syntax.

The problems with the html editor have also been found and fixed within a few hours of being notified of the problem. We try to respond to every issue as it is presented to us, but instant results are not always possible. Some things may take a few hours or even a few days to find and correct.

[kingcarol]

Re: Whiney Baby after Mar 10 update - lost format of all numbers and older percent fi

Thank you, Jerry, for the clarification. Being developers ourselves, I think we probably know exactly what you have to go through to make these decisions. It just made me whiney to have to suddenly slow down and fix all my grids that had been working... when I was fighting time to release something else. I do get concerned that after I develop so many more grids, I'll have to go back through all of them again for some reason that is out of my hands... or that I may not notice that something like that has changed before my customers notice. Glad to hear that the html editor has been fixed. I am impressed with how fast Alpha jumps on those things. Is there a release for that now?

[kingcarol]

Re: Whiney Baby after Mar 10 update - lost format of all numbers and older percent fi

Have installed the new update (today, March 13) and I can verify that the HTML editor has been fixed.

[Keith Hubert]

Re: Whiney Baby after Mar 10 update - lost format of all numbers and older percent fi

Hi Carol,

Here is the note from the Update

Str() Function - This function, which is used to format numbers, is now more robust in that it can take either a numeric or string input. For example:

?str(23.2,10,2,"$")
= " $23.20"

'Previously, this would have returned "23.2" (without the $) because the input was not numeric
?str("23.2",10,2,"$")
= " $23.20"
As a result of this change, when creating a Display Format expression in the Grid or Dialog, it is now optional (and no longer mandatory) to include the convert_type() function in the generated function. If you use the Genie to generate the Display Format expression, the Genie will continue to use convert_type() in the generated expression.

This what you originally were "Whiney" about!!!!

[RichCPT]

Re: Whiney Baby after Mar 10 update - lost format of all numbers and older percent fi

I'm still fairly new to A5. Is there no global search and replace that works on A5 components?
-Rich

[frankbicknell]

Re: Whiney Baby after Mar 10 update - lost format of all numbers and older percent fi

There is a global search. But no global replace yet.

[peteconway]

Re: Whiney Baby after Mar 10 update - lost format of all numbers and older percent fi

A fix is already in place in the next build to allow str() to be used against numeric or character values, and now the new process IS 100% compatible with the older syntax.

- Thanks, but remember, the minute Alpha5 ceases being Alpha Five because it can no longer do what it used to, then make it Alpha 6, so it's clear. To quote you

It is was, you could still run Windows 3.0 programs on Windows 7 without modification.

it's very clear what these two products are - that is they are different. - Thanks for fixing so quickly, well done.