Web Server - How Useful is It?

[forskare]

Re: Web Server - How Useful is It?

Gandhi,

Thank you for your insight. I looked at the web publishing tutorial briefly but will spend more time on it.

[DaveM]

Re: Web Server - How Useful is It?

on a server like say windows 2003, 2008, etc., you have the server itself, the MySQL server for the dbs and the was which is another server. Then you have your application on top of that. You need the was to be able to see the a5w pages the right way.

You can have a html page to call the a5w page and vice versa. they are just calling a url of sorts.

[GGandhi]

Re: Web Server - How Useful is It?

hello ken

can you do the following and see:
start your alpha five and click on the application server or webserver that is on the top level next to file edit etc.
that will open application server folder
note down the server name and the port if any.
then click okay to close.
then select the web control panel the one next to regular control panel
then select html page then select new on the top when the editor comes just write down "hello ken" with out the quotation marks. highlight this and select h1 from the drop down list where it says normal. the word will become big. save as test_html
then select a5w pages and select new
repeat the same steps and save the page as test_a5
when all done close all windows and in the main web control panel there is a button that says publish click on that and publish all the files. when done.
start your browser and type in the address bar
http://"your server name"/test_html.htm (if port is different the after your server name add :port number, i doubt that. also note there is no html, it is just htm)
see what happens.
next type in
http://"your server name"/test_a5.a5w and see what happens.

replace "your server name: with what you noted earlier.
if i sounded too descriptive or elementary my sincere apologies.

[Steve Wood]

Re: Web Server - How Useful is It?

Except when you put a grid, etc on a desktop form you don't need an a5w page.

However, even on the Desktop app, if you embed a grid component, it really does run in a browser. To test, embed a grid, run the form, hover over the grid, click View Source. You will see it is an HTML page same as any A5W page. If you review the code, you find it is simply a Working Preview of the grid.

[DaveM]

Re: Web Server - How Useful is It?

Most of the websites out there can be used on a lan. some will require linus/unix with the proper servers, etc installed and others will work on a windows server. Some have to have their own server to assimilate the data like Alpha, Wakand, etc. Some don't.

[2ninerniner2]

Re: Web Server - How Useful is It?

Hey Lyle, how about those Flames? Probably skating on the same rink as the Wild in Jamaica

You got it ... the "rink" where they yell "fore" a lot! LOL

If you look really closely, I mentioned to open in your "fave" browser ... please tell me IE isn't your "fave" browser! ... try it again with FF or Chrome ... or if you really must try it with IE, rename the extension to htm or html. :)

[Peter.Greulich]

Re: Web Server - How Useful is It?

However, even on the Desktop app, if you embed a grid component, it really does run in a browser. To test, embed a grid, run the form, hover over the grid, click View Source. You will see it is an HTML page same as any A5W page. If you review the code, you find it is simply a Working Preview of the grid.

Yes, that's true. I guess my point was that you don't need to explicitly create an a5w page if you want to run on the desktop. Just like you don't need to create pages for components if they are going to run under a tabbed_ui.

[forskare]

Re: Web Server - How Useful is It?

Yes, that's true. I guess my point was that you don't need to explicitly create an a5w page if you want to run on the desktop. Just like you don't need to create pages for components if they are going to run under a tabbed_ui.

A couple issues I see with running on the desktop: 1) Images feature pack and 1 or 2 others will not run on the desktop and 2) A tabbed ui will not run on the desktop as it's not listed in the super controls. Have you found a way to load a tabbed ui onto the desktop?

[Peter.Greulich]

Re: Web Server - How Useful is It?

Have you found a way to load a tabbed ui onto the desktop?

Hhmm... I haven't done a lot w. web desktop stuff. A tabbed_Ui lives on an a5w page so maybe you could embed the a5w page on a form? But if you go to action scripting/web/tabbed-ui, you can do it like that. I assume it's running in an xdialog. You could call the code form your autoexec script or elsewhere.

[seaken64]

Re: Web Server - How Useful is It?

It's a shame we are stuck with these terms "desktop" and "web". They are inadequate and confusing. Now with Windows 8 there is more confusion about what is a "desktop" application. At any rate, I look at the "web" tools in Alpha Five as a means to allow my database to be reached from any browser anywhere in the world, including a browser on my local machine or local LAN, regardless of whether I have "Internet access" on that machine or LAN, or not. Is my local machine on the "Web"? No, there is no need to be on the "Web" when accessing a file on a server INSIDE my own network. However, if I am at a location OUTSIDE my own network (say, at a Panera Bread or Starbucks) I will need to use the "Web" to access that same file that sits on my server inside my network. This is very hard to do with only a "desktop" application that does not "serve" up data beyond it's own location. But with a "web" enabled application I can access my data that sits on my local LAN, inside my own buildings, simply by opening up a "browser" application. I can do this either from INSIDE or OUTSIDE my LAN. With a desktop application I can only do this from the inside. (Well, technically there are ways to extend access to a desktop application outside the LAN but it's not easy and security is a nightmare). The"web" app doesn't care if I'm actually coming in from the "web" or not. The experience is the same if I am accessing the data from INSIDE (and thus not actually on the "web") my LAN or from the OUTSIDE (through the "web").

Maybe the term should be "Web-enabled" application. The actual "World Wide Web" does not need to be involved unless you need to serve up the data to the outside world. (An over simplification I know but I think most people think of being on the internet as being on the "web" and that the only network being used is the internet, though this is not accurate).

Sean

[Peter.Greulich]

Re: Web Server - How Useful is It?

Maybe the term should be "Web-enabled" application.

The term that I have most commonly heard used is "browser based" application or simply "browser" application.

[seaken64]

Re: Web Server - How Useful is It?

I think Alpha was trying to simplify the terms so most people would understand. It really has more to do with what protocols are used between the machines than it does with the "Web". Also, many people would accept that the protocols in use can be termed "web" protocols, or the languages used as "web" languages, since they are most commonly used on the "world wide web", though not limited to the "web".

What terms will we be using for the mobile applications? Microsoft wants to use it's own terminology and Apple and Google also want people to use their terminology. These players also want to lock people into their own paradigm for what an "App" is. If you develop an application for the "web" will it also be able to be used on a mobile device? Yes, if that device uses an open standards browser and allows the user to go outside of the controlled garden paradigm the specific manufacturer or platform owner dictates. But what if your mobile device only allows "apps" from the "app store"? Will your web-enabled app be able to be certified for the "app store". I don't know. It's all very confusing. For now, we can assume that if you design a web-enabled A5 application and properly set up the server you will be able to use it on "any" browser. Until someone like Microsoft or Apple says differently.

Sean

[forskare]

Re: Web Server - How Useful is It?

I Sean,

Thank you for your comment. It is very informative. As with anything new, Alpha has to feel their way along as well, hence the confusion. There are really 4 ways to access an app:
1) Desktop Only
2) Desktop Hybrid
3) Browser Intranet
4) Browser Internet

I have gone back and forth between Desktop Only, Desktop Hybrid and Browser based and have come to the following collusion which doesn't mean I know all the answers; far from it:

At this point, my thought is to develop an app as Browser Intranet unless there are valid reasons to go purely Desktop. While it is possible to have a Menu form on the Desktop which opens other forms, hence using an extensive array of grids and dialogs, I think that one would be better served to use the grids and dialogs sparingly, simply because when field names are changed and other changes are made, it can be quite tedious to track down the resulting errors in grids and dialogs. Of course the same is true with Web Only but at least there are no forms with which to interact.

Perhaps the bigger issue is knowing the ins and outs of setting up an app to run Internet and Intranet. The do's and don'ts etc. It's like we have all these pieces of a puzzle but little direction on how to put it together. For those new to the web part of the arena, one word I would use to sum it up is, "OUCH!"

[jkwrpc]

Re: Web Server - How Useful is It?

Again, my only words of caution for anyone unfamiliar with setting up a web server, which needs to be done for an intranet app as well as an internet one, is to pay attention to what you are doing. If you can access the application from a coffee shop or elsewhere then anyone can. Proper setup and security is a huge issue and need to be given its do attention. So if I were going to move down this path I would ask lots of questions of those on the forum who have lots of experience doing it. Yup, I worry a lot.

I have worked a fair amount with IIS but have about zero knowledge with Alpha's WAS.

[seaken64]

Re: Web Server - How Useful is It?

This is on the reasons I have not jumped full in to the browser based application for my business. I am still learning all the ins and outs of security when accessing data over the "web". Certainly, any developer who does not have a handle on network security should be cautious about developing a web-enabled application.

John, do you think using the A5 security components to limit access is enough?

Sean

Again, my only words of caution for anyone unfamiliar with setting up a web server, which needs to be done for an intranet app as well as an internet one, is to pay attention to what you are doing. If you can access the application from a coffee shop or elsewhere then anyone can. Proper setup and security is a huge issue and need to be given its do attention. So if I were going to move down this path I would ask lots of questions of those on the forum who have lots of experience doing it. Yup, I worry a lot.

I have worked a fair amount with IIS but have about zero knowledge with Alpha's WAS.