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Filemaker 11

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    #31
    Re: Filemaker 11

    Originally posted by kkfin View Post
    I think you are wrong. The step is huge and very different than from dos to windows.
    To put your customers data to web is big big thing. Your really have to trust yourself. If you make mistake somebody will certainly find your mistake and take advantage of that.

    Ken
    Ken,

    As others have mentioned, it is not necessarily a web application but a browser application. Install the Application Server on a Windows server in the client's office and connect PC's to it using a browser. No web access and no outside security issues. Also mentioned by others, you can have Windows, MAC OS and Linux computers all running your application. Another big plus is that all you are supporting is the Application server running on a Windows server. No more trying to install the runtime on 20 different PC's in the office running multiple versions of Windows.

    Maybe Alpha calls it an application server instead of a web server because it runs "Hosts" applications that do not necessarily have to run on the "WEB".
    Last edited by jaryder; 03-26-2010, 12:35 PM.
    Jeff Ryder

    Comment


      #32
      Re: Filemaker 11

      Originally posted by kkfin View Post
      I think you are wrong. The step is huge and very different than from dos to windows.
      To put your customers data to web is big big thing. Your really have to trust yourself. If you make mistake somebody will certainly find your mistake and take advantage of that.
      Jeff outlined my meaning perfectly.

      I spoke of using the WAS on an INTRANET not the internet. In that case, your apps are not exposed to the web. They are on your network or even on a standalone machine. Not a big thing - no security risk - all the advantages that I spoke of earlier. Just a new way to think about programming that will work on the web when you are ready. You asked for a way to have your desktop apps work on the web. Well this is it.

      PS. Don't tell Microsoft not to continue with putting Office out as web apps. They have seen the enormous growth of things like Google Apps. Many desktop apps like this are being taken to the web. I won't use them but it sure seems that many do.

      Comment


        #33
        Desktop Applications

        Selwyn,

        I myself am very happy to hear that Alpha is not planning to abandon the desktop developers. I have built quite a good business using Aplha 5 and develop desktop applications for sale. I have also made quite q bit of money over the years developing desktop applications and there is no end in sight. Depending on the area of business that many businesses are in that don't need or want a web based application there is still a lot of demand for desktop apps.

        There is no doubt that we need web based apps and that the demand will forever grow but it will be many years before desktop apps will not be needed.

        Comment


          #34
          Re: Filemaker 11

          I tried Filemaker a while ago and found that it is really Rapid Application Development software, as well as Very Slow Performance one.
          It doesn't have so many bugs as A5, but not as flexible too.
          I like FM style. It is quite nice, and just a beauty comparing to A5 forms.
          FM allows to build applications using other languages in its interface. A5, frankly speaking, doesn't at all.
          All these 'little sweets' of A5 are useful only for english web/desktop interface.
          And of course there are a few databases A5 work fast with. This is not the case with FM. It is vaaary slow in external queries using JDBC.
          All in all, choosing between the two products I rejected FM and bought A5, and can't develop a single application with it because of problems with non-english interface. That's the difference.

          Comment


            #35
            Re: Filemaker 11

            Actually, Alpha does have a tool to get you started moving from dbf/desktop to web/sql - I forget the name of the utility, which you have to buy, but it will automatically convert all your dbf's to sql, and create grids for the forms. It will still require a lot of additional progamming to convert a mature app, but it will get you started.

            I will likely never go to the web. (Although I may - who knows!!) I have more business than I can get to with my current desktop, Lan, ans T/S clients.

            I think a lot of us who have been programming from CP/M thru DOS and Windows desktop/LAN apps for maybe 30 years and more get very grumpy when we realize that to go to the web you need to become faily fluent in several new "languages" - Java, HTML, Sql, etc. as well as develop new conceptualizations for how to do things.

            Things are changing. Many people don't even have landlines, don't use email, and run apps from mobile devices. Heck - just ask your granddaughters who the Beatles were, and they'll look at you like you'er out-to-lunch. Personally I'm glad Alpha has the patience to be making a Web App. They have to to survive.

            My philosophy is that if you can find something better than Alpha, go for it. Otherwise be someone who is contributing and not complaining all the time!! Ugh!!
            Cole Custom Programming - Terrell, Texas
            972 524 8714
            [email protected]

            ____________________
            "A young man who is not liberal has no heart, but an old man who is not conservative has no mind." GB Shaw

            Comment


              #36
              Re: Filemaker 11

              Originally posted by webzee View Post
              can't develop a single application with it because of problems with non-english interface. That's the difference.
              Email [email protected] and ask about other languages.
              TYVM :) kenn

              Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.

              Comment


                #37
                Re: Filemaker 11

                I have been a mainly very happy user of Alpha from v5 upwards. The support from Selwyn himself and from message boards etc has been excellent but I can't see that it will be worth investing in v11 or in web applications due to the costs involved and the benefits that will provide.

                My market is the very small business with many clients over the years being sole traders or wholly owned trading local companies who want simple software to suit their needs and their lack of sophisticated computer skills. They want low cost financial applications such as payroll, job costing and stand alone sales ledgers none of which they will want to run from an expensive web server. Some clients do have local networks but not many.

                While I may have to consider upgrading to v11 upwards or Filemaker in future due to Windows upgrades or other factors I find that grid displays are not really needed in desktop applications. I do appreciate that my market is probably very different from about 99% of Alpha developers but there may be others like me out there.

                Mike

                Comment


                  #38
                  Re: Filemaker 11

                  Not everyone will have a need to upgrade to v11 as is the case with you. However, there is one aspect of v11 that I am keenly interested in and that is the new application for the smart phone. Even more so if it one can sync it to a laptop or desktop. That could be worth the upgrade price alone.
                  TYVM :) kenn

                  Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Re: Filemaker 11

                    I think Webzee was lamenting the fact that Alpha doesn't have full multi-language support. Yes, on the webside they do have the <a5:r> tags, but. It seems to me he likes the program and wants to use it but can't due to that limitation. Seems like a reasonable "complaint" to me.
                    Peter
                    AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

                    [email protected]
                    https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


                    Comment


                      #40
                      Re: Filemaker 11

                      I think a lot depends on your starting point. I am relatively new to Alpha (v9 on) but have spent a lot of time on SQL in the past. I am primarily focused on browser apps but need to do desktop apps occasionally. I must emphasise that I am not a programmer and have limited time to spend on development work.

                      What little programming I have done was in VB and VB.Net and I found the A5 desktop environment less straightforward and and less flexible than VB, but admittedly faster (a paradox I know).

                      From my limited perspective Alpha is playing catchup to standards that have existed for years outside of Alphaville, e.g sql backends and the way the new dialog component functions (vb/delphi oop anyone...), but doing it in the magic Alpha way. Outside of Alphaville, SQL databases and their awesome programmability are the norm, not xbasic and dbf. This should make A5 attractive to a whole new crop of developers, which is good for everyone.

                      Alpha is essentially choosing to stay relevant and by extension, if we keep up, we will stay relevant too.

                      But while I agree with the strategy, i.e. web app side first, I too want the gap with desktop apps closed as fast as possible. Because of my limited investment in desktop work to date and a reluctance to spend to much time there, I look forward to the day where all development work is done on the Web App side of A5 and a press of a button magically publishes the desktop installer.

                      My simplistic wishlist for Alphas development path:
                      1. Publish the Chart Component already...
                      2. Publish the HTML report component already...
                      3. Publish a non-google map component that displays geometry data from a database
                      4. Publish the full mobile functionality set
                      5. Embed a programmable SQL compliant DB into A5 for use in all apps.
                      6. Break down the barriers between web and desktop apps eg a unified security model etc.
                      7. Enable publishing of a desktop app installer from the web app environment.

                      Oh and if it can all be done before my subscription runs out, that would be great!

                      Chris

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Re: Filemaker 11

                        Well, with regards to the web: I spent many years there. "It [the web] became so complicated in terms of development that I needed a support team which I didn't have."

                        Because Alpha draws on so many technologies to bring you web, there's a lot of risk [IMHO] should thing go wrong for developers using this technology. ~Unless [of course ] you fully understand how everything works at it's own level.... And that requires a ton of dedication, to say the least!

                        Most small businesses don't have this time & capability. Nor can they afford those who do... It used to be that if you knew Alpha, and also knew how to design a database.... All you needed on top of this was a familiarity in X-basic & some logic skills to do virtually anything you wanted. The present web solution does not follow suit. Sure you can run wizards, cut ant paste code, make some really impressive things happen..... But to actually "be in the know" you have to dive down a deep rabbit hole!

                        It's very easy to see where Alpha is headed with this subscription model. It's for high end developers. The only ones who will be able to "deliver the goods with backing"..... As complicated as all this stuff has become, I can't see small businesses using Alpha [internally] for web in it's present state/direction. It's just not going to happen.....

                        For this reason, I think it's a huge mistake for Alpha to not provide some kind of virtualized web/desktop server [similar to what is available from Citrix] to take any desktop app and virtualize it within a standard browser. It certainly wouldn't be fast with many concurrent users.... But it would be one heck of a "bridge" extending an existing applications reach over the web, without requiring installations on the clients.... With a "Citrix like solution", developers would also have something to sell to clients, as their existing desktop apps could be immediately ported to the internet.... IMHO, this enhancement / capability should have been incorporated into the desktop side several years ago.....

                        The biggest benefit to this concept of desktop virtualization is that existing developers could keep on developing & using what they know. (Without having to go back to school. I don't know about you, but "I'm getting too old for this viscous cycle!")

                        There is nothing wrong with providing the "high end" development tools to dedicated web developers.... I think it's a wise decision!
                        (But I suspect that many loyal Alpha followers are presently being left behind as result of the major commitment necessary to be a part of this "major product transition!")

                        Maybe I'm wrong about this.... I'd love to hear from some of the "Veteran Alphaholics" out there.....

                        Bottom Line: Users, wouldn't you like an option to [leverage your existing desktop/X-basic skills] & be able to instantly "plug your desktop application [serving a small office/business internally] into a web server and provide immediate access through a web browser GUI?") ~ I know I would! (And who knows, maybe there is already an inexpensive way to do this with a third party product???) It sure would make the subscription a lot more valuable (viable & affordable), IMHO!
                        Last edited by SNusa; 04-13-2012, 08:13 PM.
                        Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
                        It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
                        RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Re: Filemaker 11

                          Originally posted by Selwyn Rabins View Post
                          To state that "Alpha's development is 100% in the Web side" is actually 100% wrong!!



                          We are very committed to both Desktop and Web and to also bridging the gap.

                          Future versions of Alpha Five will continue to make significant advancements on the Desktop. I can say this with total confidence as I know what development at Alpha has already been completed, but not yet released.
                          That is good to hear. Most all of the end users my stuff is targeted at do not want their business stuff residing on the web. A few maybe, but most - no.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Re: Filemaker 11

                            How about an IIS "Desktop-Helper" connector (IIS web server integration forthcoming) that takes any existing desktop application, virtualizes it, and renders it in a browser through IIS?

                            Actually, this would be a great way to "re-position" / "re-purpose" the current a5 Web server! which is presently scheduled to be discontinued!


                            BOOM!..... Existing A5 desktop developers would be [instantly] "back in the game!" - All pre-existing desktop applications could be instantly available on the web for small user groups! [Kind of like the "Citrix Solution."] ~ NOW THAT'S SMART...

                            ~Just think how many subscriptions could be sold [kept alive actually] with this feature included!
                            (Not to mention the message sent [to the world] regarding the strengths & future viability of X-basic!)

                            Selwyn & Co., are you monitoring this thread? I'd love get some AlphaSoftware feedback on this....
                            Last edited by SNusa; 04-15-2012, 11:14 AM.
                            Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
                            It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
                            RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Re: Filemaker 11

                              Hi Glen

                              Interesting to see that you are being asked for more web work.

                              A point I would make is

                              Web applications are only ever going to work if you can have sufficient guaranteed bandwidth.

                              Take a client I visited last week. Located in the major industrial estate in Gateshead, one of the foremost in the North East, he tells me broadband speed is not only poor, it is unreliable.

                              Furthermore at 4:30pm each day it becomes unusable.
                              The reason he suspects is because a neighbour plc hogs the available bandwidth.

                              We install our desktop applications throughout the UK.
                              From Hertfordshire to Aberdeen.
                              From Bolton to Humberside and many points in between.
                              Rarely do we come across a fast reliable connection.
                              Some places people have difficulty just browsing.

                              Given that our applications rely heavily on Xbasic code to handle posting and updating, and that all our applications are business operation and financials (invoicing, sales ordering, purchasing) I would like someone to guarantee that with such poor bandwidth, our A5 applications will function to the same expectation level as they would on a desktop on a correctly configured local network.

                              You see the problem is that as developers clients buy our applications with certain givens (assuming it has professionally specified) � they expect it to work.

                              That it is the web fault is irrelevant to the business owner who is needs to get his invoices out. He doesn�t care. All he wants is it to do the job it was designed for.

                              I am quite prepared to be persuaded otherwise, but for me writing a business application for a client and making it web based is like putting a V10 application on a peer-to-peer network with 1 gig workstations and a 10/100 hub.


                              Kind regards

                              Alex
                              Database Software Solutions Limited
                              www.dbasesolution.co.uk
                              http://www.precise360.co.uk
                              PRECISE360 -
                              LYNCHPIN -

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Re: Filemaker 11

                                Geoff - just one question - hosting for $140 per month?

                                check out http://www.zebrahost.net/alpha-five-...-machine-.html - they have plans starting at about 1/3rd of that.

                                Also this page outlines what is new in the v11 for desktop apps

                                http://wiki.alphasoftware.com/What%2...+in+Version+11
                                Richard Rabins
                                Co Chairman
                                Alpha Software

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