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Having trouble with many to many links in a set

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    Having trouble with many to many links in a set

    Right now I�m very puzzled. I�ve created many a set design, but right now I cannot seem to get this set to work the way I believe it should.

    I have a:

    headertable
    =====>childtable
    =========>grandchild
    =============>GreatGrandChild

    All are Many links. The Linking fields are set up in the field rules to auto increment, to fill and skip. This only applies to the tables creating the linking field values.

    Using the defaults form, I notice that the first browse has the linking field out of view. When adding a new record to the first browse, the linking field is filled in automatically by Alpha. To me, this is normal and the link is created.

    The second and third browse both have the linking fields visible. To me, this is not correct. The second browse should only have the Jobs field visible and the third browse should only have the Parts field visible. When I try to enter a new record, the linking fields are not filled by Alpha. I do not believe that I should have to enter values into the linking fields. That�s alpha�s job. That's the way all the sets that I have created in the past have worked.

    It�s been a while since I last created a set, but I do believe my methodology is correct. Then again, maybe not as it doesn�t work like my other sets did.
    Alpha 5 Version 11
    AA Build 2999, Build 4269, Current Build
    DBF's and MySql
    Desktop, Web on the Desktop and WEB

    Ron Anusiewicz

    #2
    Re: Having trouble with many to many links in a set

    Ron,
    Your linkages are not what they need to be.....each table should have its own auto-increment field (and suggest naming them different from the other tables). Then each child should have a corresponding field (user entered) that will house the parent auto-increment field. Doing this for each linkage then gives you what you want.

    say:
    Parent--transno(auto-inc)
    Child--transno(user entered and link field) and its own auto-inc say called "ctransno"
    GrandChild--ctransno(user entered and link field) and its own auto-inc say called "cctransno"
    GreatGrandChild--cctransno(user entered and link field) and its own auto-inc say called "ccctransno"
    Mike
    __________________________________________
    It is only when we forget all our learning that we begin to know.
    It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
    Henry David Thoreau
    __________________________________________



    Comment


      #3
      Re: Having trouble with many to many links in a set

      Hi Mike,

      I thought I was the only person up so late.

      I have used this link scheme for years running complex invoicing applications and have never had a problem. Was I just lucky?? :-)

      In this case, I have a direct link to the header. So if I want to see how many parts were billed by a certain person, all I need is the first linking ID.

      Joe�s linking ID is �H00001�. So every table with the �H00001� in the Ctransno field is linked to Joe. This is real useful when creating reports.

      Lastly, by having a dedicated linking field, I can change any value in the table without breaking the link.

      I�m sure you know all of this. I�m just puzzled as to why I was able to create sets this way before and they are working fine, yet I can�t create sets this way now. :-(

      Ron
      Alpha 5 Version 11
      AA Build 2999, Build 4269, Current Build
      DBF's and MySql
      Desktop, Web on the Desktop and WEB

      Ron Anusiewicz

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Having trouble with many to many links in a set

        Ron,

        If you have had this working in the past it may have been more by good luck than good management. :) Being able to simply link on two or more fields is new to v10 so since you say it has been a while then you most likely used a slightly different arrangement. I do know of an alternative that would do what you want.

        However, now that we can specify multiple fields for linking , which is more in line with sql type databases, Alpha should be supplying the linking fields as you are expecting. It actually says so in the 'whats new in v10' documentation under desktop features. Sets - Linking on Multiple Field

        It does not say it explicitly but certainly by implication.

        I would submit the sample you have here as a bug report.
        Tim Kiebert
        Eagle Creek Citrus
        A complex system that does not work is invariably found to have evolved from a simpler system that worked just fine.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Having trouble with many to many links in a set

          Tim,

          Thank you for your reply.

          I used a5v5 originally for one of my applications. Through the years, I have upgraded the database engine and I'm currently using a5v8 for this application. It's been working great and I have never had any problems. I've attached the set structure for one of the tables.

          I'm making a new application using a5v10 and I'm having trouble. As best as I can tell, the methodology is the same.

          Thank you
          Alpha 5 Version 11
          AA Build 2999, Build 4269, Current Build
          DBF's and MySql
          Desktop, Web on the Desktop and WEB

          Ron Anusiewicz

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Having trouble with many to many links in a set

            When you link the tables on a common field and enter data at the parent table the child will automatically receive the parent value in the linking field provided the child record was touched in the case of a new record.

            Referential integrity should be used if you dont' want any orphaned records in any of the child tables should a root record be deleted.
            Creating Healthcare Work-Flow Solutions Since 2005

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Having trouble with many to many links in a set

              Tim,
              now that we can specify multiple fields for linking
              I have used multiple field linking for quite some time using an expression in the set's link definition (since v5). Definitely not a new concept.

              EDIT LATER: Awwwww! Pays to read what is in the link you provided!! Looking back my linkages were used for static report writing....not for new data entry.
              Last edited by MikeC; 07-31-2010, 02:26 PM.
              Mike
              __________________________________________
              It is only when we forget all our learning that we begin to know.
              It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
              Henry David Thoreau
              __________________________________________



              Comment


                #8
                Re: Having trouble with many to many links in a set

                Your topparent table is named "headertable" but in the set it shows as "person"?
                I am aware that you are using aliases for the other tables.

                One possible explanation:
                You have other sets using this table but as a child with the alias "person".

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Having trouble with many to many links in a set

                  Ron,
                  In further testing I created a new app from scratch in v8. Parent,child and grandchild. Parent to child linked on one field. Child to grandchild on two fields as you show in the image in post 5.

                  I could not get alpha to automatically supply the links in the way you claim is now working. Then I noticed in the image that you have referential integrity set to prevent changes. As soon as I made that change the linking fields disappeared from the browse on the default form and the links were getting filled in properly. I have never noticed that before. Probably because I do not use Alpha's referential integrity to avoid the table and record locking issues.

                  I did the same to your v10 example and get the same behaviour change. I have attached your v10 sample modified. I made a minor change by adding a jobno field in the job table and using three fields to link to the parts table. Otherwise the parts would not be filtered correctly for the job.

                  I still believe v10 is not working as advertised as per the 'Whats new'.

                  If you need it I can make an example of doing it without referential integrity.
                  Tim Kiebert
                  Eagle Creek Citrus
                  A complex system that does not work is invariably found to have evolved from a simpler system that worked just fine.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Having trouble with many to many links in a set

                    Don't know about v10, but you cannot use RI if you use expression for linking.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Having trouble with many to many links in a set

                      Originally posted by G Gabriel View Post
                      Don't know about v10, but you cannot use RI if you use expression for linking.
                      Thats what i always thought/assumed. See attached example. The set testset has RI-Prevent changes and seems to work.

                      The set testset2 uses calculated fields to pass the links.

                      EDIT: This example was created in v8
                      Tim Kiebert
                      Eagle Creek Citrus
                      A complex system that does not work is invariably found to have evolved from a simpler system that worked just fine.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Having trouble with many to many links in a set

                        In the same set you created, try to choose "cascade changes/deletes". Alpha won't let you. I suppose I should have been more specific.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Having trouble with many to many links in a set

                          Originally posted by G Gabriel View Post
                          In the same set you created, try to choose "cascade changes/deletes". Alpha won't let you. I suppose I should have been more specific.
                          Yep, I see that as well. I used the 'Prevent changes' because it seems that is what Ron is using in his sets that have been working.

                          In V10 'cascade changes/deletes' does seem to be allowed. The set editor accepts it at least. Don't have time to see if the referential integrity actually works correctly. The key fields still do get populated for new children and grand children etc.
                          Tim Kiebert
                          Eagle Creek Citrus
                          A complex system that does not work is invariably found to have evolved from a simpler system that worked just fine.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Having trouble with many to many links in a set

                            I can't quite remember if it was one of the very old versions of alpha or some other db that I used to use long time ago that allows that as well! maybe one of the ole timers can remember if it was possible maybe in v4.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Having trouble with many to many links in a set

                              Gabe,

                              In Version 1,3,5, we had a lot of lateral freedom, but it dissapeared with the first update. I think it may have caused problems at that time. I
                              was able to link almost anything almost any way. Not even sure they meant it to ever be that way. Data could have easily been compromised without great care.
                              We also had great speed that later slowed down with updates back then.


                              .
                              Dave Mason
                              [email protected]
                              Skype is dave.mason46

                              Comment

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