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Prepare the app for use in network enviroment...

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    #31
    Re: Prepare the app for use in network enviroment...

    Originally posted by MikeC View Post
    Here is a link to Ira's record locking thoughts...(too bad not all answers only took the 60 seconds to find with a search!!! )
    http://www.csda1.com/csda_codeutilit...#recordlocking
    Thanks Mike, I thought it was the CSDA link.

    Also, noticing you're an "Alphaholic": ~ Does my "field linking" concept (as presented above) "hold water?"
    (I'm kind of testing/questioning my understanding of the core underlying principals here.)
    Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
    It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
    RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

    Comment


      #32
      Re: Prepare the app for use in network enviroment...

      Originally posted by SNusa View Post
      ~ Does my "field linking" concept (as presented above) "hold water?"
      (I'm kind of testing/questioning my understanding of the core underlying principals here.)
      It does, as suggested previously in this thread by Bill, post 12, Mike #19, Cal #21, myself #25

      Comment


        #33
        Re: Prepare the app for use in network enviroment...

        So long as the linking field has guaranteed unique values that cannot be duplicated by another user then what you suggested should work fine...in fact, it may work better than many suggestions that have been made regarding the creation of user defined auto-increment functions as it is very simple with basically no overhead---don't believe that what you suggested even requires the checking of whether or not it already exists. To keep your database "clean" though, you still may have to get rid of any records that are saved that have no data entered when a user cancels the data entry....otherwise you will have to contend with these for queries/reporting.

        Cal seems to have experienced this issue more often...maybe he can chime in on this as well.
        Mike
        __________________________________________
        It is only when we forget all our learning that we begin to know.
        It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
        Henry David Thoreau
        __________________________________________



        Comment


          #34
          Re: Prepare the app for use in network enviroment...

          Originally posted by MikeC View Post
          So long as the linking field has guaranteed unique values that cannot be duplicated by another user then what you suggested should work fine...in fact, it may work better than many suggestions that have been made regarding the creation of user defined auto-increment functions as it is very simple with basically no overhead---don't believe that what you suggested even requires the checking of whether or not it already exists. To keep your database "clean" though, you still may have to get rid of any records that are saved that have no data entered when a user cancels the data entry....otherwise you will have to contend with these for queries/reporting.

          Cal seems to have experienced this issue more often...maybe he can chime in on this as well.
          WAY COOL ~ Thanks MikeC!

          My conceptualization just seemed "way too simple" and elegant of a solution to work properly. (Particularly since so may "little things" pop up over and over again regarding multi-user considerations.) ~ Before posting, it only took me a couple of minutes to setup a set and test it. But not being in a network development environment, I didn't want to be "headed down the wrong path."
          Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
          It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
          RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

          Comment


            #35
            Re: Prepare the app for use in network enviroment...

            I've got Ira's site link on my DT, as well as the Wiki.
            See our Hybrid Option here;
            https://hybridapps.example-software.com/


            Apologies to anyone I haven't managed to upset yet.
            You are held in a queue and I will get to you soon.

            Comment


              #36
              Re: Prepare the app for use in network enviroment...

              Originally posted by Ted Giles View Post
              I've got Ira's site link on my DT, as well as the Wiki.
              Drumroll please, while I claim the "Stupidest Question On Thread Award":

              What is DT? ~ anDroid Tablet?

              (I don't even own anything android, or even a tablet for that matter. But it sounded good. Particularly with all those young "texters" tapping away at warp speed.)
              Last edited by SNusa; 01-20-2012, 04:14 PM.
              Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
              It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
              RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

              Comment


                #37
                Re: Prepare the app for use in network enviroment...

                Took me a bit to figure too BTW.....must mean DeskTop...way too many acronyms already without having to deal with personal ones!!!
                Mike
                __________________________________________
                It is only when we forget all our learning that we begin to know.
                It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
                Henry David Thoreau
                __________________________________________



                Comment


                  #38
                  Re: Prepare the app for use in network enviroment...

                  Originally posted by SNusa View Post
                  Also, to avoid issues like the "ghost child records" mentioned above, couldn't this solve all issues:

                  Link the parent to the child using a second field. (not the primary auto-increment field of the parent table)
                  AND: This second field (in the parent table) is set to a calculated field using a a time-date stamp & user combination such as:

                  CTIME(NOW()) + vgUserID.
                  (vgUserID would be a global variable assigned to each user at login.)


                  Seems to me that if a database is initially created using this method, many potential multi-user issues are "solved in advance."

                  NOTE: My concept as presented here applies to parent/child tables scenarios on forms where users are entering the data. (ie: an invoicing form) ~ Although code could easily be generated to also do this "behind the scenes" when large amounts of data are being manipulated without user intervention.
                  Yes. This is correct. And it wouldn't even have to include anything about the user. It just has to be unique.

                  The value can be something like you've suggested and that sometimes eliminates the need for a separate autoincrement number. BUT, that might not be suitable for something like invoices where an auditor would want to see that none of the invoice numbers were skipped. In that case, the autoincrement value would not normally need to be visible to the user but could serve to show that no records (invoices) were deleted to hide anything.
                  Last edited by CALocklin; 01-20-2012, 06:04 PM.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Re: Prepare the app for use in network enviroment...

                    Originally posted by CALocklin View Post
                    Yes. This is correct. And it wouldn't even have to include anything about the user. It just has to be unique.*

                    The value can be something like you've suggested and that sometimes eliminates the need for a separate autoincrement number. BUT, that might not be suitable for something like invoices where an auditor would want to see that none of the invoice numbers were skipped. In that case, the autoincrement value would not normally need to be visible to the user but could serve to show that no records (invoices) were deleted to hide anything.
                    Yes, I know. But I'm inclined to believe you still would need the vgUserID assigned (in the event that two users tried to add a parent record at the same time) *to guarantee "uniqueness." Right? (Possibly I'm getting into what I've heard others refer to as "atomic record locking.") ~ and how different databases handle simultaneous access...
                    Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
                    It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
                    RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Re: Prepare the app for use in network enviroment...

                      Originally posted by SNusa View Post
                      Yes, I know. But I'm inclined to believe you still would need the vgUserID assigned (in the event that two users tried to add a parent record at the same time) *to guarantee "uniqueness." Right? (Possibly I'm getting into what I've heard others refer to as "atomic record locking.") ~ and how different databases handle simultaneous access...
                      As unlikely as it would be for two people to add something at the same one thousandth of a second, you probably should have something to guarantee uniqueness - just saying it doesn't have to be a user id. An ID created with something like API_UUIDCREATE() would be adequate if everyone was on one network.

                      On the other hand, I'm not sure it would be possible to get two new records in a .dbf file at exactly the same time. Maybe it is but I wouldn't be surprised to find out that it isn't possible. Anyone know for sure?

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Re: Prepare the app for use in network enviroment...

                        *to guarantee "uniqueness."
                        You can go as far as you want really---if using just a time stamp with say the now() function, what is the likelihood of someone adding a record at the exact milisecond? Could happen...but HIGHLY unlikely. Adding the user ID would prevent this. Could also just use the API_UUIDCREATE() function to create a unique identifier.
                        Last edited by MikeC; 01-21-2012, 04:28 AM.
                        Mike
                        __________________________________________
                        It is only when we forget all our learning that we begin to know.
                        It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
                        Henry David Thoreau
                        __________________________________________



                        Comment


                          #42
                          Re: Prepare the app for use in network enviroment...

                          Dang! You sure are smart Mike!

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Re: Prepare the app for use in network enviroment...

                            LOL must be that you're an hour ahead of me in time that makes me look slow!
                            Mike
                            __________________________________________
                            It is only when we forget all our learning that we begin to know.
                            It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
                            Henry David Thoreau
                            __________________________________________



                            Comment


                              #44
                              Re: Prepare the app for use in network enviroment...

                              Yep - DT = Desk Top
                              CP = Control Panel
                              AS = Action Scripting.
                              RI = Referential Integrity
                              ERD = Entity Relationship Diagram

                              I didn't invent this shorthand - most of it was already here!
                              See our Hybrid Option here;
                              https://hybridapps.example-software.com/


                              Apologies to anyone I haven't managed to upset yet.
                              You are held in a queue and I will get to you soon.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Re: Prepare the app for use in network enviroment...

                                Originally posted by CALocklin View Post

                                On the other hand, I'm not sure it would be possible to get two new records in a .dbf file at exactly the same time. Maybe it is but I wouldn't be surprised to find out that it isn't possible. Anyone know for sure?
                                Even if the now() function is set up in the field rules and the application is accessed from a central machine, I am quite sure that with the dbf system (as opposed to SQL) the code in the tables' field rules is run on the local machine. So if the computer times on various machines on the network are not synced to the thousandth of a second then I think it is possible to have two or more records with the same time value.

                                I do know that the now() function in a UDF records the time of the local machine. In an app I am working on that has 7 busy work stations (POS system) I have not seen an identical time but I have seen later records by record number that have an earlier time stamp. (by say a couple of minutes.)
                                Tim Kiebert
                                Eagle Creek Citrus
                                A complex system that does not work is invariably found to have evolved from a simpler system that worked just fine.

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