Form goes blank in Runtime but info shows when running the Full version

[kyosadls]

Re: Form goes blank in Runtime but info shows when running the Full version

Here is a stripped out version of the database. I left the info in tables that populate other tables. What's strange is ALpha keeps "flashing" that its "not responding" while trying to run it on my Win7 laptop. Here's the scenario: The Client tab works fine, the Case tab works fine. Typically from there they go to the Office tab and this is where things go awry. Sometimes the information is retained but you can't see it until you click on the Control Panel and go back to the Office tab, and sometimes it just isn't captured whatsoever. The problem always happens in the Office tab, none of the others seem to be affected, and it happens when using the default form -- but not all the time.....

[Tom Cone Jr]

Re: Form goes blank in Runtime but info shows when running the Full version

Diana, I will be interested to see what others have to say but for me, I think your set design is the fundamental issue. Tried to enter a new record on the Office tab and could not. The button that calls the data entry form won't work. I see that the called form uses the same overly complex set as the inputform. With both forms open you'd have every table in the set (and some are in multiple times) open twice, once for each form. That's too many balls in the air to juggle without dropping something in my opinion. Wouldn't handle it this way on a bet, especially in a networked environment. In short I think you've woven a web that's too complex, and that the displays go blank because data is being entered in records that do not have the necessary foreign keys to remain linked.

Suggest you simplify your design and try to use multiple, simpler forms, instead of the hugely complex one you've built.

May I refer you to an old article at www.learn alpha.com? It's served me well over the years. "Simplify your Application for Better Performance" worth a read.

-- tom

[kyosadls]

Re: Form goes blank in Runtime but info shows when running the Full version

Thanks Tom, I understand what you're saying, but why has this worked fine for a number of years? (This was originally built in 9 and was upgraded to 10.)

Second question, and I think the answer is most likely yes, if I design a different input form will the data remain intact? The client loves the way this form is set up, they are not going to be too happy if its changed completely, but I don't think I'm going to have much choice.

Diana

[Tom Cone Jr]

Re: Form goes blank in Runtime but info shows when running the Full version

I think you should wait for additional feedback from others.

The stripped down version of your app cannot be used to enter a new record on the office tab, so my conclusions may be premature.

[kyosadls]

Re: Form goes blank in Runtime but info shows when running the Full version

This is exactly what we're seeing, but you may go back later to the office tab and see your information. I threw the Enter button on the office tab just as a stab at a work-around and initially it did work. Now it doesn't. Are you running Win7?

Thanks for the article, I've downloaded it and am reading it now.

[Ted Giles]

Re: Form goes blank in Runtime but info shows when running the Full version

Comment:
The Enter New Record on the Office tab won't work as the process is looking for a match. There isn't one at this stage.
Client Number isn't getting populated in Office table
Had to recreate link to Cases-NU from the Office Tab New Record - works now on my PC. It was looking for a different path.
You have 2 Office forms in the Control Panel

I both agree and disagree with Tom. The form triggered by Office New Record only uses one table. But that is also open in the very cumbersome set behind the Input Form.
The level of complexity can easily be unravelled as you have defined the links you want and need in the "Monster!"

If you need a hand, just shout. The data will remain intact BTW. Data is held in the Tables, not the Set.

What is the Search part on the Client Form supposed to do?

[Tom Cone Jr]

Re: Form goes blank in Runtime but info shows when running the Full version

Ted,

The form that gets called from the New Record button on the Office tab is based on the same set of tables as the current form. They all get opened and fed to the app over the network, even if the called form only has fields that are found in a single table within that set.

The "office" table is linked into her set twice, with different keys. Alpha was probably populating new office records with one key, when the form was expecting another, so the data "disappears" when saved. By supplying both keys the data should display just fine.

-- tom

[Ted Giles]

Re: Form goes blank in Runtime but info shows when running the Full version

?
cases.png Office.png

[kyosadls]

Re: Form goes blank in Runtime but info shows when running the Full version

I feel I need to stress that the Enter Record on the Office tab is NOT part of the "regular" database -- I added that as an attempt to work around the problem we were having. I guess I should have removed it before posting. Having a strong network/desktop background, something is telling me that while the set structure may be part of the problem, it doesn't explain why this form worked perfectly for the last 3 years and my experience has been that when this type of behavior occurs, the one thing that does change on a constant basis are the Windows updates...

Also, I have seen behavior that once the Client and Case tabs were filled in, if you went to the Office tab, then clicked on the Control Panel, then went back to the office tab it worked fine, as if it were properly refreshing. And would the "record commit" errors occur because of the set? I tried repairing the set at one point and initially it said it couldn't find it, then it said it repaired it! Here's the 2 error messages I received. error.jpg error2.png What could be causing the unhandled exceptions?

FYI: I just heard from the client and she is telling me she is able to use the database for about 3 entries, then she has to jump to the control panel and then come back, so she can continue. This is the only consistent behavior we've been able to nail down: switching to the control panel and then back to the form, although from time to time Alpha will freeze and has to be restarted..

For me to completely rewrite the entry form is going to be a real hassle but I will gladly do it if it is the problem. Would it be an option to still use the tab form, but place subforms on the tabs instead of direct data entry as in the Clients, Office, Demand and Settlement tab -- OR just set them up with a browse entry such as in Cases, Defendant, Medical Record, Medical Bill, Contacts? Which brings up another question as to why ONLY the Office tab is problematic?

[Tom Cone Jr]

Re: Form goes blank in Runtime but info shows when running the Full version

Diana,

If multiple workstations are running the app over a local network I'd recommend using a "menu" form that calls separate forms to enter the data. Wherever possible the separate forms would be based on single tables or very simple (two table) sets. This will be a big change for your app to be sure, but it gives you greater control and will cure the problems you're seeing now.

Is there something else that might "cure" the problem? I can't say for certain. I noticed that your "office" table is joined in the set twice, using different link fields. Is that the only time this occurs? i.e. do you have other tables linked into your set more than once, using different link fields? If not, that may point to the problem you're seeing. Remember, in a set based form when you enter a child table record Alpha inserts the link field value into the child table record for you automatically. Your design assumes Alpha will insert BOTH link field values, and I don't think that's happening, nor is Alpha designed to do that. I would not be surprised to learn that your data stops disappearing if you link both instances of the office table into the set with the same link field.

[kyosadls]

Re: Form goes blank in Runtime but info shows when running the Full version

I see what you're saying about the set Tom. Not sure why that's there...it's been so long since I created this. Only thing I can think is that it wasn't automatically populating the client number in the office field..but what I will do is remove the Office link between clients and office and test it. I actually did start with a front end menu form but the client is really attached to the tab form. I asked how they felt about using a different "front end" for data entry and was rewarded with dirty looks -- that's the main reason I'm clinging to this form. Could someone have gone in and done something to it? I would like to think not. Could size be a factor as the database is now approaching over 1500 records?

Thanks so much for your time everyone, I'll do some more testing and let you know. Many of the forms in there that have _NU are forms that I started with but didn't use, thus the NU=Not Used. And I can't get over that sometimes although the data isn't showing, when you hit control panel and go back, or open the table in default form, the data is there! Very bizarre behavior, but consistent across Win 7, XP SP3 and Server 2008.

[Ted Giles]

Re: Form goes blank in Runtime but info shows when running the Full version

Diana, please see attached A5Doc in Notebook format.
It's the set giving you trouble I believe.
I'll look at the form and see if I can track any issies there using A5Doc

[Tom Cone Jr]

Re: Form goes blank in Runtime but info shows when running the Full version

Diana,

Your client is typical. Most want to see everything about their business on a single complex form. They have no clue on how it's all tied together, nor do they appreciate the problems that can occur. Did you find Dr. Wayne's article enlightening?

[Allen Klimeck]

Re: Form goes blank in Runtime but info shows when running the Full version

Diana I must be dense as I don't see what might be the correct way to enter data in your form. I'm sure that it is clear to you and your client. Could you give us an outline of correct data entry?

[Ted Giles]

Re: Form goes blank in Runtime but info shows when running the Full version

Most want to see everything about their business on a single complex form.

I've had to do this with very complex sets but in a VIEWONLY mode. 8 tables and 10 tabs with lots of Memo data. No updates allowed, just searches.
Update button triggered a separate form entirely based on the record being viewed.