Frustration and more frustration trying to install a V11 desktop app on another PC...

[DaveM]

Re: Frustration and more frustration trying to install a V11 desktop app on another P

For clarification Dave.
Do you install a Runtime separately from the App? YES, see below
I'm not clear about getting .net on the machine. Does it come bundled with the RT package?

KINDA YES, See below

I install a copy of my runtime that was created on my developement machine. I do not run the alpha installer because it wants to install somewhere else. I include registry entries, dotNetFx40_Full_x86_x64.exe, vcredist_x86.exe and the batch files(slightly modified) for registering. I isntall all this by way of astrum.

Astrum can detect .net4.0 and I can conditionally install.
I am working on c++ runtime now and got this response from Thraex:

Adding the following variable might work:
Variable name: <VisualCpp2010RuntimeExists>
Default value: 0
Variable type: Number
Get variable from: Registry
Root key: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE
Path: SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Uninstall\{5D9ED403-94DE-3BA0-B1D6-71F4BDA412E6}
And then tick the "Set to true if exists" check box next to the Path field. Value name may be left empty.

I now install runtime(copy) into c:\alda and the app into c:\alda\appname. I used to do this different, but watched what ms, broderbund and other large companies do. Figured there must be a reason.

.net did not come with runtime in v10, but later patches included the short version. It does not appear to run unless .net4 is not installed. I do not have v11 runtime, so cannot test it. I hope someone will.

It would be wonderful if alpha would chime in as how they detect some of this stuff.

[Selwyn Rabins]

Re: Frustration and more frustration trying to install a V11 desktop app on another P

Somewhere in this thread someone asked how the Alpha Five v11 Installed (which is written using the Wise Installer) detects if the .Net Framework is already installed, or if it need to be installed.

We are reading two registry keys:
I have extracted the relevant part from the Wise Installer script below to show what registry keys we are looking at:

item: Get Registry Key Value
Variable=DOTNETFULL
Key=SOFTWARE\Microsoft\NET Framework Setup\NDP\v4\Full\
Default=NotFound
Value Name=Install
Flags=00000100
end
item: Get Registry Key Value
Variable=DOTNETCLIENT
Key=SOFTWARE\Microsoft\NET Framework Setup\NDP\v4\Client\
Default=NotFound
Value Name=Install
Flags=00000100
end

[DaveM]

Re: Frustration and more frustration trying to install a V11 desktop app on another P

Thank you Selwyn!!!

Now the c++ runtime???

[Selwyn Rabins]

Re: Frustration and more frustration trying to install a V11 desktop app on another P

I am not in my office now, so i can't check for sure, but i don't believe we check if it has been installed - we just install it regardless.

[glenschild]

Re: Frustration and more frustration trying to install a V11 desktop app on another P

FYI I have almost nailed this insomuch as I now have an astrum installation checking for .net4 and installing if required. The C++ install is not currently recognising that it is already installed, once I have figured that out......

Thanks Dave for the various pointers, much appreciated.

[DaveM]

Re: Frustration and more frustration trying to install a V11 desktop app on another P

Glenn,

I have not tried this yet. It is from astrum:

Adding the following variable might work:

Variable name: <VisualCpp2010RuntimeExists>
Default value: 0
Variable type: Number
Get variable from: Registry
Root key: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE
Path: SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Uninstall\{5D9ED403-94DE-3BA0-B1D6-71F4BDA412E6}

And then tick the "Set to true if exists" check box next to the Path field. Value name may be left empty.

[glenschild]

Re: Frustration and more frustration trying to install a V11 desktop app on another P

Glenn,

I have not tried this yet. It is from astrum:

Hi Dave

I have tried it but it has not worked for me yet ie: it carries on attempting to install c++ but if it is already installed it offers to repair it!

[Ray in Capetown]

Re: Frustration and more frustration trying to install a V11 desktop app on another P

I installed my first long developing v10 runtime and app.

step 1.
Unzipped my A5 zipped app onto the server, I just use the same folder name that I have - not absolutely necessary but does eliminate some random possibilities later on. Also copied any external files if any. Also copied Alphas RuntimeInstaller exe - any folder plus the pre-modified shortcut.
step 2.
At a terminal, navigate to the server, runtime folder (step1.), run the installer - which also did a .NET4 install - and I copy the shortcut to the desktop. Test it.
step 3.
repeat step 2 at every terminal

However. Either I - or an appointed IS installer - or an on-site employee are present at the premises for the initial installation. I develop turnkey apps - with specific changes for almost every client. So I dont require any high level of automation.
to update I (previously) emailed my updated A5 zip, using a saved ZIP having de-selected tables that must not overwrite
Most developers couldn't do it this way. But for my type of scenario or starting out or for you own business - do it like this and then you will better understand what you need to automate for future.

I am definitely NOT advocating no need for an installer - on all the good advice I've been given will, when able, start setting up Astrum installer.
Remote updates have been nerve-wracking. It's so easy for me - or client - or even the presence of an unknown to cause error

[Michael Humby]

Re: Frustration and more frustration trying to install a V11 desktop app on another P

Ray,

We are not looking at a manual install this is not the problem, our aim is to prepare an install.exe that can be shipped on a CD or as a download that does not require any user PC knowledge or input. This has been pretty straight forward in the past but now we must introduce the .net4 and c++ stuff so until I can automate this I must hold back on shipping the later Runtime versions of V10.5 and V11.

I am presently considering a method to install both a dummy app with the older V10 engine that will run with or without .net4 together with the real app and V11 engine, then use xbasic within the dummy V10 app to check if .net4 and c++ exists and force the user to load if necessary then overwrite the shortcut .startup so that future starts will apply the V11 engine. Hopefully the user then will only need a 'yes or no' decision to install .net and c++ if indeed it is required. To achieve this I would need to know the xbasic to detect .net 4 or c++ existance, can any one help.

Michael
www.instantnurserymanager.co.uk

[Ray in Capetown]

Re: Frustration and more frustration trying to install a V11 desktop app on another P

Yes Michael, I understand fully.
My post was certainly not aimed at you. I haven't done a lot of installations.
With 69 posts here and questions coming up on other posts, installation of V10 could look fairly daunting to the less initiated.
I admit I didn't know what to expect myself - so I thought to share my experience of a manual installation for those

starting out, or for you own business - do it like this

[Chet Sapino]

Re: Frustration and more frustration trying to install a V11 desktop app on another P

You are not ruffling anything. People on this forum are simply trying to help you. Let's just stick to the issue, which I am STILL not clear about.

Is the issue that you can't install your app using the InstallMaker that comes with A5, or is it something else?

If the issue is simply that you can't install your app using InstallMaker, then I suspect it is because of the .net framework, which I have previously mentioned.

The Installmaker allows you to create an install for a) both the runtime files and your app files, or b) just your app files.

You should choose option b.

That leaves you with the task of getting the a5 runtime files installed on the target machine. I suggested earlier in this thread that the easiest way to do this is by distributing the a5 runtime install program itself.

If you don't want to do that (for some reason that you have not made clear), then you can use a 3rd party install program. If you are going to use a 3rd party install program, then you might as well have it install your app files as well - not just the runtime files.

Are you suggesting here that 1). the developer distribute the runtime install exe file to the end user, and in so doing, 2). the runtime will install the .NET runtime if it is not detected on the target machine?

This might be an easier alternative than having an installer such as Astrum automatically install .NET for you along with the runtime.

[Ted Giles]

Re: Frustration and more frustration trying to install a V11 desktop app on another P

Chet, see new thread started by Mike.
http://msgboard.alphasoftware.com/al...ng-.net4-and-c

[DaveM]

Re: Frustration and more frustration trying to install a V11 desktop app on another P

Let's say this.

You cannot run a bootstrap in v11 unless you have installed .net4 and c++ runtime. I do it from astrum
You cannot install of v11 to any folder you want unless you are at the machine. Only the user sitting there can.

You can use an installer like astrum to put v11 in any folder you choose(or clients choice), it can also install .net4(conditionally), c++ runtime, and put your application where you or the user wants. You can do this without being at the machine yourself. Then you can run your bootstrap when the startup link is pressed.

[Ray in Capetown]

Re: Frustration and more frustration trying to install a V11 desktop app on another P

Yes Chet
Since you asked on this post, I do it that way, I think anyone can but it depends on the level of automation you require.
That's the trade-off.

If you're doing it "manually" often, then you can decide.
But get the experience manually first then you will better understand what all the rest of this thread is about.

[Chet Sapino]

Re: Frustration and more frustration trying to install a V11 desktop app on another P

Mike,

Were you using something odd in the app that cause it to access .net? Mine are usually pretty plain Jane apps. There are few of the newer setups in them.

Anyway, based on what you just said, I am going to include the .net as I already do. I had figured that on moving an app to v11, I would need it anyway.

Some of my installs do not go on computers with web access. I pretty much have to install from the big file. I think there are 2 .net 40 installs. One is client and the other is the full. May be wrong, but I don't think it matters which is on the puter for alpha. Can you verify that? I have posed questions in astrum forum and hope to get an answer in a few days that may clarify some of this.

It seems like you might be referring to a 10.5 app and that you are going to install .net for it in the future?? Is this true?

as far as I know, you don't need .net for a v10.5 app unless you are using a .net component that requires it.