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V11 (and V12) compatibility with prior releases?

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  • V11 (and V12) compatibility with prior releases?

    With the advent of V11, I stopped upgrading for the first time in decades (i.e., my latest version is thus V10.5). Maybe it's only or mostly from one person (who has been on this forum for less than a year), but it makes me very concerned when I read things such as "considering the huge difference that exists between v11 and older releases" (and blah, blah).

    I get that there may be huge differences in the bowels of A5 and what is now available (i.e., .NET, etc.). But is V11 so radically different that if I were to move up to V11 (or V12 for that matter) that my desktop applications built with earlier versions might need to be totally rebuilt to run under V11 or V12? (Minor tweaking is never a problem for me.)

    I for one consider some degree of backward compatibility to have always been a huge plus for Alpha Five. If that ceases to exist, Alpha will have lost me for good. And no, I am not saying I must be able to run an A5Vx application forever or even that DBF must be in there forever. But if it gets to the point that I have to tell a client who has spent tens of thousands of dollars on a highly custom app that they will suddenly have to pay to have it totally rebuilt, they will abandon both me and Alpha Software.

    Some feedback please from long time A5 users who are using V11, is V11 (and V12) that radically different in ways I should be worried about? I hope (and actually assume) the answer is no and that statements to the contrary by some are overblown.

    Raymond Lyons


  • #2
    Re: V11 (and V12) compatibility with prior releases?

    Hello Ray,

    I would say, "No, it is not radically different and I would not hesitate one bit to upgrade a client from any of the recent versions of A5. Granted, the earlier versions will require more effort simply because so many features have been added. Other than minor issues, everything on v10 should run just fine on v11. Mine do.
    TYVM :) kenn

    Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.

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    • #3
      Re: V11 (and V12) compatibility with prior releases?

      Ray,

      I echo what Ken says. I have done some preliminary testing on a very complex v8 desktop app in v11, and all seems to be fine. I plan on moving the client to v11 for this app.
      Peter
      AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

      [email protected]
      https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


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      • #4
        Re: V11 (and V12) compatibility with prior releases?

        I do not agree.

        I have never moved any app from one version to another without having to rewrite parts of it. The jump from 8 to 10 required the most changes.
        Cole Custom Programming - Terrell, Texas
        972 524 8714
        [email protected]

        ____________________
        "A young man who is not liberal has no heart, but an old man who is not conservative has no mind." GB Shaw

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        • #5
          Re: V11 (and V12) compatibility with prior releases?

          Thanks guys.

          Martin, I tried to say I can live with having to make some changes when moving up, so rewriting small parts of an application is not my concern (depending, of course, on how extensive the rewriting might be). I have had to do what I'd call minor tweaking when moving up a level, e.g., I seem to remember needing to tweak arrays not long ago--not what I'd all a major problem. My concern was that given some things that have been written on the forum lately that all of the sudden with V11 a major rewrite would be required. Could you perhaps elaborate a bit on some of the specific issues involved when moving to V11, especially if it is from V10 or V10.5?

          Thanks.

          Ray

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          • #6
            Re: V11 (and V12) compatibility with prior releases?

            I've only moved one app from 10.5 to 11 - and I don't recall any issues at all. I have run into an unexpected issue in V11 when moving from 4.5 to 11 - with numbers and floating point errors.

            Bear in mind that I don't use ANY web features or super controls. My guess is that that may be the ares they are talking about.
            Cole Custom Programming - Terrell, Texas
            972 524 8714
            [email protected]

            ____________________
            "A young man who is not liberal has no heart, but an old man who is not conservative has no mind." GB Shaw

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            • #7
              Re: V11 (and V12) compatibility with prior releases?

              I believe moving from 10.5 to 11 will probably be OK.

              However; I have a version 8 application that fails miserably when moving to V11. This application has been in service now for over nine years problem free. In fact, I submitted some bug reports on issues that I felt should not happen.

              The good people at Alpha did review the issues and they felt that my code was reasonable. Some of the bugs were corrected. But some were not. I was able to recode to correct some of the problems.

              Although I want to, I'm not going to move forward until it becomes necessary.
              Alpha 5 Version 11
              AA Build 2999, Build 4269, Current Build
              DBF's and MySql
              Desktop, Web on the Desktop and WEB

              Ron Anusiewicz

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              • #8
                Re: V11 (and V12) compatibility with prior releases?

                Originally posted by Raymond Lyons View Post
                With the advent of V11, I stopped upgrading for the first time in decades (i.e., my latest version is thus V10.5). Maybe it's only or mostly from one person (who has been on this forum for less than a year), but it makes me very concerned when I read things such as "considering the huge difference that exists between v11 and older releases" (and blah, blah).
                I echo all of that, emphatically the last in braces. Expert know-all advice on every topic with no specific or visible working examples. Thanks for raising this enquiry, I have asked the couple of those who have mentioned the "tons" of new desktop features in v11 to enumerate some, responses nil.

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                • #9
                  Re: V11 (and V12) compatibility with prior releases?

                  Even if your V8 app runs fine in V11, you should go though an upgrade process, removing, and re-inserting all grids in their respective A5W pages. The A5W page code is very different (and streamlined) in later versions.

                  If your older applications have little Xbasic, they will upgrade pretty easily. However, if you use any of the now dropped or revised functions, you will need to address that. All of those changes are listed in the Help. If you ignore these changes you may end up with a broken site, but much worse you might end up with a site that only appears to work perfectly.

                  Not being backwards compatible is a pain, I agree. It forces me to maintain a V10 server for instance for my clients that choose not to upgrade (e.g. pay me to upgrade them). But the client pays for that. When Alpha supports IIS, I am sure I will have v10, v11 and v12 servers for a while.
                  Steve Wood
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                  • #10
                    Re: V11 (and V12) compatibility with prior releases?

                    Martin,

                    As I stated my app is desktop. Of course, I haven't thoroughly tested it. But I looked at some of the areas that I thought might give me problems and they seem to work flawlessly.
                    Peter
                    AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

                    [email protected]
                    https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


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                    • #11
                      Re: V11 (and V12) compatibility with prior releases?

                      1) Yes, you should always go through an upgrade process of verification and testing, no matter what you expect. The devil is often in the details.

                      2) However, I think the OP is going from the wrong assumption here: the fact that there ARE huge differences does NOT mean there is no backwards compatibility. There is no causal link between the two.

                      3) How much your app is affected if you upgrade depends on what technology you use in the previous version and what exactly has changed. An example: the system function clientsidexbasicfunction1() that would pass data from clientside javascript to serverside xbasic does not work anymore in v11. It's behavior has been changed (confirmed by Alpha) and in v11 it will take genericXbasicUIFromWorkingPreview(). So if you used the first function in previous versions you are stuck with non-working code under v11. The behavior of the approach has been changed. This is just one example.

                      4) This is nothing new. There have been many changes in version where there would be disruptions of backwards compatibility for instance going from version 5 to version 6 where in version 6 Alpha became much more strict on the syntax of xbasic as in version 5. This caused many scripts to give problems and caused a great deal of work to identify where all possible points of problems could be. Backwards compatibility can not always be uphold.

                      5) Applications have a life-cycle and they have life-cycle costs. Backwards compatibility disruption repair occurs and should be one of those.

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                      • #12
                        Re: V11 (and V12) compatibility with prior releases?

                        Ray, my free stuff works in V9, V10.5 an V11. No web stuff in there, (but that's the next project).
                        I'll give it a whizz in V12 Beta and let you know how I get on.

                        Edit. Yes it all works as expected Ray in V12 Beta
                        Last edited by Ted Giles; 03-06-2013, 05:04 AM.
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