Some Advice Needed!

[WokingJon]

Re: Some Advice Needed!

In my testing one pc was the master and two others where setup as shadows. When you setup a shadow on a normal network it creates a copy of the DB files and stores them on the shadow machine. The shadow updates the files local to it and then they sync to the master. The only difference with the Google Drive setup is sending that sync request across the internet instead of an intranet. I have had two of the machines, the master and one shadow create invoices at as close to the same time as I could and there was no conflict. Both machines where updated to see each others new invoice. I do not know if there is a setting or I am just being lucky but so far my test have resulted in Google drive syncing to all machines so fast I would have to say it was instant.

But to take this whole experiment one step in a sideways direction I am now testing mapping a drive letter to a ftp site. Doing it this way there is no local folder in between. The ftp site looks and acts just like a local dive on your pc. Will see how this goes.

Preston, The problem I found was that if the master (which holds the indexes) is on Google drive there are multiple copies of the indexes created, both locally on each PC and within the cloud. The FTP route should resolve this, but no idea what impact it may have on performance.

[David Boomer]

Re: Some Advice Needed!

When you setup a shadow on a normal network it creates a copy of the DB files and stores them on the shadow machine.

are you sure???
I am pretty sure that the shadow stores the forms etc not the data, on the local computer.

[Peter.Greulich]

Re: Some Advice Needed!

I am pretty sure that the shadow stores the forms etc not the data, on the local computer.

Correct. It creates a dbf which contains the path to the real data and the other files contain the forms, reports stored locally thus speeding things up.

[preston2]

Re: Some Advice Needed!

are you sure???
I am pretty sure that the shadow stores the forms etc not the data, on the local computer.

On mine the master contains these files for the tables and sets. .cdx . dbf .ddd .ddm . ddx .sem .set .sex . On the Shadow it has the .dbf .ddd. ddm .ddx .ddx .sem .set .sex . So everything except the .cdx which is the index file.

For the database file both the Master and the Shadow contain all the same files, .adb .aex .alb .alm .alx .muf .rmuf

In other words those are the files that Alpha installs on the workstation machines.

This is the code I use in the autoexec script for my workstation installer.

dim master_db_name as C
dim shadow_db_name as C
dim startup as c

a5.window_title = "Quick Quote 3.2"
a5.window_icon = "QQ32a.ico"
'Hide the Control Panel.
:controlpanel.hide()

master_db_name = ""
shadow_db_name = a5.Get_Name()
ui_modeless_dlg_box("Install Quick Quote",<<%dlg%
{can_exit=exit}
{lf};
Specify the filename of the master copy of the application:;
[%P=ui_get_file("Select file","(*.adb)",master_db_name)%.100master_db_name];
{lf};
<Click Here to Start Install!oK?.not.(master_db_name="")> <Cancel!cancel>;
%dlg%,<<%code%
if a_dlg_button = "cancel" then
    ui_modeless_dlg_close("Install Quick Quote")
    a_dlg_button = ""
end if
if a_dlg_button = "oK" then
    if file.exists(master_db_name) = .f. then
        ui_msg_box("Error", "Master Database not found.")
    else
        a5.Load(master_db_name)
        a5_nopt_CopyAddFiles(shadow_db_name, master_db_name)
        create_shadow2(shadow_db_name, .t., .t.)
        ui_modeless_dlg_close("Install Quick Quote")
    end if
end if
%code%)

[martinwcole]

Re: Some Advice Needed!

When you guys tire of all this (none of the approaches you have so far outlined will work,) put T/S on the server and let rremote users login in via T/S - works like a charm - very very fast. I have several clients using T/S for several years.

[jkwrpc]

Re: Some Advice Needed!

Martin

I have been interested in this discussion for a number of reasons. Why wont this work? Just curious.

[DaveM]

Re: Some Advice Needed!

seems to me that a mapped drive to a windows container should work great and with the servers out there today with unlimited connections, it would work better than T/S because of the ability to handle many more connections at one time.

[Ray in Capetown]

Re: Some Advice Needed!

I have been interested in this discussion for a number of reasons. Why wont this work? Just curious.

John, many reasons but in a nutshell to me - adjudication - there is no traffic control at the main repository.
Of course there are circumstances where this can be controlled, but judging by results posted here, not for error free multi-user table write operation.
For reporting purposes, at the read only end I would expect no problem.
I dont know enough about SQL but could the traffic control be done on the online server drive?
Of course it could but to be practical must be controlled at the source, not with data re-read to the client.

With TS / Citrix no data passes up/down. I support Martin. Not to say I am not supporting this exploration, but with the best shadowing there would have to be periods of data sending, however at zero cost it is worthwhile working on a strategy.

[jkwrpc]

Re: Some Advice Needed!

Ray/Dave - thanks for the feedback. I am not an expert on this nor an expert by any means with A5.

What interests me is the use of Google Drive and OneDrive as a 'cloud' repository for a shared database. It does seem mapping the drive would be efficient.

I am also curious about the services themselves. I wonder if they would have enough bandwidth to support database application activity in a production situation. Finally, both services are geared towards collaboration and sharing. Are there enough security features to protect the database from being hacked.

[DaveM]

Re: Some Advice Needed!

One does not have to use shadowed tables at all, but need plenty of memory on the server portion to accommodate. Also can use dbf if so desired.
Shadowed, the indexing is still done on the server. Passing of data for most apps is not such a big deal, but a really big one, it could be a bunch. Smart planning could overcome many data moving slowdowns.

I would think a designated server at a hosting account may be a good choice as well.

[preston2]

Re: Some Advice Needed!

Ray/Dave - thanks for the feedback. I am not an expert on this nor an expert by any means with A5.

What interests me is the use of Google Drive and OneDrive as a 'cloud' repository for a shared database. It does seem mapping the drive would be efficient.

I am also curious about the services themselves. I wonder if they would have enough bandwidth to support database application activity in a production situation. Finally, both services are geared towards collaboration and sharing. Are there enough security features to protect the database from being hacked.

I will be starting a new thread before long on this subject to hopefully discuss the the how-to's, why-for's, up-sides, down-sides and tricks to getting all this to work one way or another.

Just reading through the post here it seems some expect enterprise results from non-enterprise solutions. There may or may not be a way to get there with a no cost solution. Hopefully we can find out.

That said, using something like Google Drive does work and can work very well depending on your application and the way your customers use it. Mine works very well using Google Drive and the way my app is used. I will also be looking at adding a few lines of code here and there to minimize any conflicts even more but I believe that will be an easier task then an almost total rewrite to convert my desktop app into a web app using a WAS.

As for security when using Google Drive or Onedrive. First if you set a Google Drive to "Public" then there is no security for it. In Private mode only those the account owner invites in can see and use the drive or folder on the drive. I also have mine set to where it requires two different authentications before a computer can connect the first time. One is naturally a user name and password. The other is an access code that gets sent to my cell phone and you must enter that code to connect the first time. That code is different for each computer connection so people cannot just pass that code around. We must also remember that Google's reputation is on the line when it comes to security of your files stored on a Google Drive. This is also the case with Microsoft's Onedrive.

There are a lot of solutions out there to make this type of setup work. From a cloud drive to VPN to WAN and others. Not every solution will fit every need but there are solutions out there. Many are free or very low cost. Some are pricey.

I have never been a person that accepts "It cannot be done" so I will find a way to do this on various levels.

[user10]

Re: Some Advice Needed!

Another option would be to host the data on sql server which is inexpensive. Then simply map the data using active tables

[martinwcole]

Re: Some Advice Needed!

Will be inteesting how this plays out - and if it works (which I am a bit skeptical of) will be one more great way to make a desktop work as a quasi web app.

Until you have several users testing at the same time for a few days, you won't know. And you will need to confirm that local devices will work with it for several concurrent users.

[martinwcole]

Re: Some Advice Needed!

Has anyone made any progress with this? made it work, etc.?

[preston2]

Re: Some Advice Needed!

Has anyone made any progress with this? made it work, etc.?

I have not had much time to explore other ways of doing it. Right now the Google Drive is working just fine for my app but I know it does not fit the needs of some of the others here.