Browse Sorting Doesn't Work

[DRW]

Well I've been pulling my hair out over this one and after trying myriad alternatives I remain truly perplexed and am now at sort of an impasse.

I have encountered consistent problems getting embedded browses to properly sort. I've tried complete set and form rdesigns thinking maye its just corruption in one or the other. Nope. I've tried repacking and reilding indexes till I'm blue in the face. No go. So, I've prepared a simple example illustration of what I'm running into.

In the attached database I have defined essentially two identical sets - one includes a filter placed on a child table and another doesn't. The one with the filter defined as part of the set will not correctly sort an embedded browse for the child table that is placed on a form. However the same set without the filter defined in the set does permit the child browse to properly sort. Also of even more interest is that if the form properties (rather than the set) define exactly the same filter that the set defined the child browse will correctly sort.

One of my additional puzzlements is that in extensive playing around with filters and other embedded browses of somewhat more complexity I have encountered even more erratic and inconsistent results - like sometimes a the same exact set with a defined filter will correctly sort and other times it may not. Anyway Can anyone provide an explanation of the behavior exhibited in the simple examples I've attached. Maybe if I can perceive the explanation for this simple failure I can then deduce what may be happening with some of my more complex sets which aren't correctly sorting.

[MikeThomas]

Re: Browse Sorting Doesb't Work

Being fairly new to A5 I may be talking way over my head, but;

I downloaded your data and noticed that most of your indexes are greater that 7 characters long. I attended a A5 WEBinar a few weeks ago and one of the few absolute rules that they stated is that �You should never use index names greater than seven characters�.

If I have time I�ll fiddle a bit tonight and see if that clears the problem.

Mike T.

[forskare]

Re: Browse Sorting Doesb't Work

Being fairly new to A5 I may be talking way over my head, but; I attended a A5 WEBinar a few weeks ago and one of the few absolute rules that they stated is that �You should never use index names greater than seven characters�.

If I have time I�ll fiddle a bit tonight and see if that clears the problem.

Mike T.

Hi Mike,

I wonder what the reasoning is behind this? Check out this link and you'll see, not only are all indexes more than 7 characters but some are multi field.

http://support.alphasoftware.com/alp...lpv8/index.htm

kenn

[MikeThomas]

Re: Browse Sorting Doesb't Work

Kenn,

The A5 WEBinar seemed to say that the original DBase had a 7 character limit on all names, A5 has removed all the limits EXCEPT on the Index names. I did quite a bit of DBase 4 programing, in a past life, and they did have defined naming rules. For now, I'll just follow explanations given by the folks that know about the rules of A5. In thinking about what they said, I think they implied unreliable operation when index names are or 7 characters.

Mike T.

[whanigsberg]

Re: Browse Sorting Doesb't Work

I don't see the problem or any mystery. If you create a sort order in the set definition you cannot sort the browse displaying child records.

The issue of index expressions is beside the point.

What precisely are you trying to achieve?

[forskare]

Re: Browse Sorting Doesb't Work

Kenn,

The A5 WEBinar seemed to say that the original DBase had a 7 character limit on all names, A5 has removed all the limits EXCEPT on the Index names. ....... In thinking about what they said, I think they implied unreliable operation when index names are or 7 characters.

Mike T.

Mike,

I checked the indexes in AlphaSports. Most are over 7 characters, 9-or 10 and one is 15. Following the advice you received will not cause problems for you but I would not think the folks at Alpha would advise developers of the problem so folks could adjust accordingly.
The ones who taught the Webinar are much more knowledgeable than I and their advice should not steer anybody in the wrong direction.

kenn

[martinwcole]

Re: Browse Sorting Doesb't Work

It isn't 7 characters, its 10 characters for indexes. I wonder why they said 7, unless it has something to do with sql,web,etc.

[DRW]

Re: Browse Sorting Doesb't Work

The issue I described with sorting filtered browses is not related to the length of the index names. I truncated all the index names in the sample that I posted and it made no difference. Also Alpha documantation explicitly states for the length of index names: "32 (10 is recommended)". A5 itself automatically generates index names which are concatenations of an A5 generated character sequence and the actual field name - which results in indexes created in this manner exceeding even the recommended index name length. So it wouldn't be sensible to have a 7 chracter limitation.

Anyway, has anyone yet duplicated/confirmed the erratic behavior of the embedded browse sorts that I documented. A fix? Nobody else has ever experienced this?

[martinwcole]

Re: Browse Sorting Doesb't Work

Bill H. gave you the answer - remove filters and sorts from the set. Its always better to filter and order at the form level.

[DRW]

Re: Browse Sorting Doesb't Work

So what exactly are the rules for deploying filters and sorts as part of a set design and alternatively, or in conjunction with, form design? It�s not my intent to belabor this but I have searched the A5 documentation and have yet to come across a single, cohesive discussion of the topic. So far I�m left only to surmise the following based on my experience with A5 plus the comments of other far more seasoned developers.

1) Rule # 1: Don�t apply filters or sorts as part of a set definition. Why? Drawing on my experience and message board comments from others they just don�t work consistently or correctly. I can probably live with this one � but then my next question is then why is the ability to do use them in set design even provided.

2) Rule #2: You can apply one and only one sort, filter or sort/filter combo to a form design. Why? Again drawing on my experience and message board comments any more than one filter, sort, or combination applied to the same form produces very erratic display results. If this is in fact the case then I�ve got a big problem with the utility of A5 as a development tool; such a big problem that I have to think that my understanding of the use of filters and sorts as they apply to form design employing multiple tables must be either wrong or quite confused.

So, let me posit the following:

A) I have a set comprised of a parent and several child tables, each linked for arguments sake to the parent by a one to many relationship.
B) I have need to design a form displaying records from the parent table, with the records sorted alphabetic on a character field.
C) On the very same form described in (B) I have a need to display embedded browses for several of the related children tables, each browse possibly requiring a filter to restrict the range of specific records displayed in the browse and each browse needing to be sorted on a meaningful character field to organize the sequence in which the filtered children records are shown. For example several of the embedded browses need to display records in ascending sort order based on their unique alphabetic ID fields and simultaneously filter the actual range that participate in the browse view according to values of a particular fields that aren�t used in the file links defined in the set.

Lets say the parent table is called Properties. I have several children tables linked to the parent based on the common key called Property ID. When I create a form starting with Properties I want the properties to be sorted by Property Name, which I define in the form properties Filter/Sort tab. I have a child table called Facilities for which I want to have the children records listed in an embedded browse placed on the parent form. But for this embedded browse I only want the children Facilities to show that are classified as �Rental� and have them sorted in order of their Facility ID. A third embedded browse needs to show the Facilities children again but in this instance filtered to show those that are classified �Nonrental� and similarly sorted in the same order by Facility ID. I have several other embedded browses with similar requirements but I think you get the idea. Can it be done? My experience says no. I hope I�m totally wrong.

If I design such a form and the embedded browses, applying filters and sorts as needed in the form properties, the final result is a mixed bag of some of the browses working and some not. They appear to filter and sort properly except some don�t correctly the focus on the top row and instead want to drop to the last row, in which case they also do not properly show field content that may be placed outside the browse(s) directly on the parent form. See attached screen capture.

I might also mention that as experienced by another A5 poster on this board I have also experienced A5 arbitrarily dropping sorts applied and saved to a parent table in the form properties. Huh? They just disappear of there own accord. See:
http://msgboard.alphasoftware.com/al...ad.php?t=74157

So can someone clarify the filter/sorting rules, limitations, et al or suggest how my understanding of their usage is flawed because I�m just not getting it.

[forskare]

Re: Browse Sorting Doesb't Work

Hi Douglas,

Is this a fair summary of what you want to achieve?

You have a form based on a set. On the form, you want to show x number of browses each based on a of the child tables.

I presume the child tables are just that, child tables and you are not using a grandchild table?

kenn

[martinwcole]

Re: Browse Sorting Doesb't Work

See images
the set is one parent and two one to many child tables - the set contains no filters and no orders(sorts)

note that the two child tables are both sorted by date in descending order

and note that I have used form properties to establish a filter and order for the parent, and for the first child table (the second child table has the same sort)

in some cases, for optimum flexibility, I have no filters or orders on either the set or the form, and set them at form initialization, and reset them based on operator requests as per buttons, ui's, etc.

[martinwcole]

Re: Browse Sorting Doesb't Work

here is an image for the child sort - messed up adding two images

[Peter.Greulich]

Re: Browse Sorting Doesb't Work

1) Rule # 1: Don�t apply filters or sorts as part of a set definition. Why?

Sure you can. But if you do, it may prevent you from changing the filter dynamically.

Rule #2: You can apply one and only one sort, filter or sort/filter combo to a form design. Why?

Not true. You can apply an unlimited number of filters to a form.

I might also mention that as experienced by another A5 poster on this board I have also experienced A5 arbitrarily dropping sorts applied and saved to a parent table in the form properties. Huh?

Unfortunately, I have seen this happen in various versions of Alpha. Therefore, I generally use xbasic (you can use action scripting) in the form's OnInit event.

[martinwcole]

Re: Browse Sorting Doesb't Work

actually, it doesn't 'arbitrarily' drop the sort or filter
if you do ANYTHING to resort the form or a find, it will lose the sort and or filter

You have to enable the user to resort to the original and to the original filter - I always handle everything with xbasic.

basequeryrun() is a good way to filter and sort