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Network Performance

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  • Network Performance

    Aside from the network optimization utility - any suggestions for improving performance across the network? We demoed this app on a single user desktop (and it works great in that environment) and now have it running across the network and have lost performance. It's not unbearable but could be better.

    Windows Server 2003; database is on shared drive. Clients are XP Pro - using A5 runtime. All clients have 1GB ram. Using Shadow DB created through network optimization.

  • #2
    Re: Network Performance

    hi betty,

    i'm not comfortable in v9 performance and stability (still have bugs)
    i think the browse is also the problem in network performance

    i've try v8 and other old version but i have no trouble in performance.
    maybe others can help us on this.

    thanks,

    nehru
    "Knowledge without application is useless."

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Network Performance

      Hi Betty,

      Originally posted by betty View Post
      Aside from the network optimization utility - any suggestions for improving performance across the network? We demoed this app on a single user desktop (and it works great in that environment) and now have it running across the network and have lost performance. It's not unbearable but could be better.
      Network Optimization, while it doesn't hurt, doesn't necessarily make any improvement in network speed. See my tips here.

      Also take a look at the next tip on record locking. Any remote sessions (like Windows remote sessions) will slow it down to a crawl for all, unless it is a remote desktop viewer like PCAnywhere, Citrix, UltraVNC etc. And any bad network card, cable or client computer, could also make the network really slow (due to retries on failed sending/receiving of network data).

      Originally posted by betty View Post
      Windows Server 2003; database is on shared drive. Clients are XP Pro - using A5 runtime. All clients have 1GB ram. Using Shadow DB created through network optimization.
      You don't really say what your server is. Is it dedicated, or shared on a client. If a client computer has the shared database, add more memory (at least 2 GB). What's the speed of the network, 100 Mb, or 1 Gig? If you are using wireless, that's at best the equivalent of a 50 Mb network.

      How many users are using it and what are they doing when it slows down? If just 1 user is using it over the network, is it still slow? Or does it slow down when a 2nd user happens?

      If you are running a lot of large queries without LQO, that uses the network a lot. If you are coding with action scripts, it produces workable, but can be very inefficient network techniques, depending upon which ones you choose and it's settings.

      I don't know if you fall into this category, but designing a working database is relatively easy for non-programmers in Alpha Five. The gotcha is that with lack of database experience, bad database design, bad coding, or bad techniques can bring it down to a crawl (could be any database program, not just Alpha Five).
      Regards,

      Ira J. Perlow
      Computer Systems Design


      CSDA A5 Products
      New - Free CSDA DiagInfo - v1.39, 30 Apr 2013
      CSDA Barcode Functions

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      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Network Performance

        hi betty,

        try using v8 even you have a good/bad table design and complex sets or even if you have a minimum server requirements

        you will see the speed difference of v8 against v9 and even if you have a antivirus on your server
        i'm sure on that!

        for your concerns about the error you see in v9 pls click here
        http://msgboard.alphasoftware.com/al...ad.php?t=82344

        look for sir steve wood reply and then register to alphatogo.com and submit the error you see. your immediate feedback is needed to have us a guaranteed satisfaction in v9.

        "Push yourself on v8. Only if v9/v10 can't motivate you."

        Thank you.


        sincerely,

        nehru l. albania
        philippines
        bernabest food products, inc.
        "Knowledge without application is useless."

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Network Performance

          Like Ira had stated there is many things that can bring a network to a slow down. I have been using v9 for over a year now and have found few bugs and lots of help. Having a server doesn't make the network. Data reads and writes are also part of the server Hard drive array. I noticed huge difference in network response when I upgraded the server. Core 2 quad 3 gigs of ram 4-500 gig SATA Having running raid 0,1. And another big Common problem is the antivirus on the server system. It scans on read write access, set your antivirus to exclude the folder containing the DB Files.

          I think People should stop bashing V9 and rethink ways to help others overcome the problems. This is a Community
          It is a FACT Most ERRORS are user errors.
          pibkac "Person between the keaboard and chair"
          https://www.housingeducator.org
          k3srg

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Network Performance

            I agree!!
            I think People should stop bashing V9 and rethink ways to help others overcome the problems. This is a Community
            Now, as far as the network speed issue. When you tested it on a single machine, did you have your data in one folder and your runtime files in another? That is a decent test.

            Your netwrok being slow can definitely can give some problems as well.

            I have 8 users running a large app off of a slow xp machine as a server. this server has no outside contact and no virus software. It performs very well. The other computers vary from a slow xp machine to a very fast vista ultra machine. Access time is a little slow due to the slow server and 100 network with 45 other users.

            In another location, they have an N network with a very fast server 2003 machine and lots of memory and all fast xp machines with lots of memory. Yes, there is a world of difference.

            1 very slow network card can bring Alpha(and others) to a crawl. Good coding can speed Alpha up tremendously. For example: I tried to use lots of different indexes to sort thigs out but found a well written and well placed query was a huge boost(expecially) over a network(less problems too).


            .
            Dave Mason
            [email protected]
            Skype is dave.mason46

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Network Performance

              let's get real people
              v9 still have bugs! going to v10 is not the way to fix this! or changing server specs...and so on....
              if you let people use v9 (still have problem) you put them in big trouble.

              does v9 needs a heavy, very high specs for server for you to run the system faster on the lan? as i can see that you are saying yes. now using v9 is not good.

              no matter what processor you have, dual core, core 2 duo, quad core, etch... still v9 have bugs ... and still v8 is solid ... what help you will give in this v9 desktop forum when your v9 have bugs on fetching records on the lan? what!? you will say that you need to upgrade your server ? hehehe that is a stupid answer. and now you say to code your action scripts? stupid again!, alpha has an option to use code and prebuild action.

              let's get straight to the point on this matter!
              PUSH YOURSELF. ONLY YOU CAN MOTIVATE YOU.

              As i can see that you are manipulating outcomes on speed performance issue. I'm telling you that you will never ever provide the best results on it. it's just getting worst. The customer's perception is reality. Don't be too comfortable on v9. Do you thoroughly know the features and benefits of your products? I think NO. Be yourself. You can't fool the audience!

              a lot of people here complaining about the speed of v9 not only me. EXCELLENCE USUALLY TAKES A LITTLE LONGER. And hope for the final patch on v9. For now using v8 is superb. no lag on the network. Be nice! Tell The Truth!

              BEWARE OF THOSE WHO DROP IN. THEY ARE TIME WASTERS.

              Good luck.
              "Knowledge without application is useless."

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Network Performance

                Actually, Nehru, I don't see lots of people complaining about speed over local networks. I see a small handful complaining often. Big difference. It's puzzling that suggestions offered in hopes of helping are ignored or belilttled.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Network Performance

                  Tom,

                  Very well said.

                  .
                  Dave Mason
                  [email protected]
                  Skype is dave.mason46

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Network Performance

                    Nehru,

                    This is a thread about Network Performance (not any particular version). While a statement that using a particular version may be better or worse, don't dilute the thread by complaining about issues you (and others) have. There are other threads that address those issues.

                    Betty asked about network performance, and bad design and/or coding will bring any network and any version of Alpha 5 with an application to extremely slow operation. I would say that bad design and/or coding constitutes about 90% of the applications that run unacceptably slow.

                    Just because Alpha Five is a database that is made accessible to "non-programmers" (try having a non-programmer do any real application in Access), does not mean that it will run efficiently or fast. That's why there are database consultants (for any program). IF IT WAS ENTIRELY THAT EASY, THE EXISTENCE OF DATABASE CONSULTANTS WOULD VANISH!

                    No matter how fast an application runs with 10,000 records, it will run 10 times slower with 100,000 records if you are using queries (either coded explicitly or implied in the code you created - You can tell if the blue bar at the lower left of Alpha show's up and takes any time) without LQO or not using indexes. No one typically cares if something takes 0.1 seconds or 1 second, but they really start to care if it takes 100 seconds instead of 10 seconds.

                    There are action scripts that are created by Alpha that will do a query with a filter just to find 1 record. If your database had 100,000 records, that's 100,000 data accesses, record locks etc over the network. Do the same thing with an index or LQO (which uses an index) and that goes down to 1. Now multiply it by the number of users doing exactly the same thing, at the same time, and your network bandwidth is easily exceeded, bringing the entire application to a crawl. If you had chosen the correct action script, or coded it correctly in XBasic, there would be no noticible difference.

                    As for updating the server, I myself, never said that you need to, although if it's a very slow network server, it should be. I assume if Betty is running Windows 2003, it probably is a fast enough computer.

                    If it's in the budget, it never hurts to buy a better server. Server specs with today's OS's should have (in most important to least important);
                    • #1: have a large amount of RAM 2 Gigabyte minimum, 3 Gigabyte is better, more if the OS allows, but probably diminishing returns at about 3 Gigabytes
                    • #2 Fast hard drive system. 2 drives, one for OS, one for application is better than RAID disk system. If you add a RAID, do it for the application drive.
                    • #3 Reasonably fast CPU specs. Anything more than 2 cores for desktop applications is probably wasted, and I suspect that would also be true on the Web application Server. In the future, that will change.
                    Network specs should be
                    • #1, fast network cards (1 GB or better)
                    • #2, fast network switch
                    • #3, Never wireless, unless absolutely required. If possible, use high speed Powerline or similar network connection boxes to send data over the power lines, this is faster than wireless
                    • As many stations wired as possible, good wires and connectors will eliminate network retries from the network.
                    Regards,

                    Ira J. Perlow
                    Computer Systems Design


                    CSDA A5 Products
                    New - Free CSDA DiagInfo - v1.39, 30 Apr 2013
                    CSDA Barcode Functions

                    CSDA Code Utility
                    CSDA Screen Capture


                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Network Performance

                      Great way to bring the details to light IRA. When I started to use alpha 5 a year ago I had problems with LQO which had caused me slow downs with network performance. My alpha DB has over 400,000 Records all built with A5v9 I found that ALL the problems that were experienced were Programming Errors. Once I consulted with the alpha Message board I found Solutions for all my problems. I can bet even the big dawgs on this message board still run into problems from time to time that they consult with other alpha members.

                      I just hate hearing alpha being bashed in such a way when I started using alpha with 0 DB experience there was issues that Help files don't cover but for the most part I am 100% satisfied with the design and performance of A5V9...
                      Another silly problem that I ran into as a Neub was I made a shadow DB but was using the runtime to connect to the backend and not the shadow.

                      Keep up the Good work Alpha Team.
                      https://www.housingeducator.org
                      k3srg

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Network Performance

                        Don't tell to everyone how good you are. Show them!
                        You're not learning anything when you're talking.

                        You can't please everyone.


                        Good luck.
                        "Knowledge without application is useless."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Network Performance

                          Ok nehru,

                          You show us! show us some of your code and use the thread(s) you started. A lot of people on here will help, but not if you are bashing Alpha and all of us. If it is your coding or equipment, we should be able to help or guide you with the coding part. All of the Alpha community is stronger than any one of the community. They will help if you ask and not be militant.

                          I have a very large program in 25 dealers now with records from 200 to 400,000. It is running on V7, V9 with no noticeable differences in speed. There are all kinds of setups, but all are shadowed. The equipment ranges from xp to vista, wired and wireless, 100 cards to 1000 cards, slow to fast switches, slow to fast servers(not all are dedicated), win 95 servers to ms server 2003, experienced and non-experienced users.

                          Note: You are from the Phillipines? I am dating a Phillipino lady. She doesn't always listen very well.

                          .
                          Dave Mason
                          [email protected]
                          Skype is dave.mason46

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Network Performance

                            Dave,

                            Good comments throughout. Being "re"-new to A5V9 after using A4, I was getting a bit nervous about performance and stability after reading about the patch issues, but I'm feeling better about it after reading your comments and others with a history of Alpha.

                            ...and I'm getting a kick out of this thread! Nehru, calm down, man. Switch to decaf. :-)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Network Performance

                              Betty,

                              Your thread was kind of sidetracked. Please let all of ushelp you?

                              .
                              Dave Mason
                              [email protected]
                              Skype is dave.mason46

                              Comment

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