Linked set making ring-around, maybe.

[BDennis]

I have a problem I have noticed approx 6 times, only solution is to switch off and restart the computor.
I suspect it may be caused by my set design.

I have three tables:- a client name table, and a firm table. They are linked by a linking table which has two fields, a client number and a firm number.
(I think I was told that is good practise.)
I want to select a client with all the firms he may work for, or alternatively select a firm with all the employees.

In one set configuration, client/firm set, the client is the parent, linked by clinumber field to the child linking table one-to-many; the linking table is linked by firmnumber field to the grandchild firm table one-to-one.

In the other set configuration it is the reverse. Firm table as parent linked to linking table on firm number, linking table to client table on client number.

Either one works fine, and normally both work fine, but sometimes it seems like I have lots of Alpha A5's suddenly installed:- across the top of the page where it says "file edit view form records" etc it repeats itself approx 3 lines, and yesterday I got lots of blurred A5 images superimposed one on another at a re-start up.

Frm the kind advice of A5 helpline I have installed the patch from the update board, but the problem has occured after that update and restart.
I am thinking I need to use some kind of conditional linking to avoid the problem of "ring-around". If I cut the set design of one configuration the other works fine. The first was working fine until I made the reverse configuration. But I cannot get it to make a problem consistantly. I don�t want to make conditional anythings which are not required, to avoid complications in future.

We have situations where some clients work for different firms at different times, and some firms have many employees. Thus the linking table may be causing a continuous circle of a client linked thru the linking table to a firm, which is linked back thru the linking table to the same client; or another client who is then linked backed to the same, etc. Could that be the problem? I expect this is a normal problem about which I should know, but I am new to this.

Brian.

[Tom Cone Jr]

RE: Linked set making ring-around, maybe.

Brian, sounds to me like a problem others have encountered with repeating system menus.

Here's what Jay Talbot found in December, 2000:

'If you start the application with all of the "load on Run" form menus set to None, you will have this problem when you go from view to design. Putting a single item menu (in our case I used Exit) on the form prevented the problem entirely.'


Might this be your situation?

-- tom

[Bill Warner]

RE: Linked set making ring-around, maybe.

Here's another thought that could apply to the erratic nature of your problem:

If you are opening forms using:

form.view("form_name","dialog")

but you don't close them RIGHT AWAY, i.e.,

form.view("form_name","dialog")
:form_name.close()

then, even though the form seems to close when you click on your CLOSE button on FORM_NAME, it remains in memory. If this dialog form is accesses enough times, you'll eventually get an error.

[BDennis]

RE: Linked set making ring-around, maybe.

Tom,
Thanks for the response.

I have one form, which will be our main application menu form, set to load on run. I thought that meant it would run when A5 started, as opposed to when that database is started. Other tables have no form selected.
I unclicked the standard welcome screen menu form, and now cannot find how to get it back if I want it.

The problem appeared after I did those changes, but it is not consistant. So far, I can�t get it to happen by trying to.
Are linked sets ok to use, as I described above; or could they be calling themselves repeatedly ? Should I ensure that both sets cannot be current simultaneously, or not worry?

Brian

[Tom Cone Jr]

RE: Linked set making ring-around, maybe.

Brian,

I would be very surprised if the sets you describe are causing the display problem. It's not unusual to arrange the same tables in different ways, using multiple sets. There's nothing wrong with one user on the local network using one set, while a different user works with a different set.

As indicated in my last post, if the repeating system menus that you saw were occurring during design mode the cause is what Talbott said. You specified a particular form to auto load on startup of a particular database. In that form, you have specified 'none' for the menu. Your choice to overcome this is to either disable the autoload, or to include a simple menu in the properties of that one form. This is a glitch in Alpha Five, Version Four. Fortunately, the workaround is simple.

-- tom

[JerryBrightbill]

RE: Linked set making ring-around, maybe.

Brian,
If you want to turn the welcome screen back on, search the forum for "welcome screen". Charles Kistler posted a nice little method to edit the registry to turn that option on and off.

If you click a form to run on load, it loads when that app loads. Until an app (database) is selected, Alpha has no way of knowing where that form is located.

As for you set problems, do you have any filters on the set linking definitions? I have seen a problem similar to yours when a linking definition includes a filter.

Jerry

[BDennis]

RE: Linked set making ring-around, maybe.

Jerry,

Thanks for the response.
Ref the welcome screen thing, I found the message ok. Sounds to me as safe and enjoyable as playing catch with a running chain saw. I�ll live with what I have; if other people have switched it off, there is probably a good reason to do so, which I�ll find one day.

I see your point about the form loading only when the app loads. Logical really, I�m just not thinking that well yet.

On the set problem, no filters are installed. I�ll try the above ideas in this thread and advise.

Thanks.

Brian

[BDennis]

RE: Linked set making ring-around, maybe.

Hi Tom,

Thanks again for the help.
Yes, it does seem to be my situation. I have one form to load on run, that form has all the menus untouched, (ie form, design, properties, menus/toolbars, all squares are blank). It has buttons on the form only.

Now this is whre I start to feel really stupid, how do I set them to do anything ? Obviously I�m missing something simple, and where in the help shld I get the info. ( to avoid the next stupid question) ?

Thanks
Brian.

[Tom Cone Jr]

RE: Linked set making ring-around, maybe.

Brian,

Open form in design mode
Select Form menu
Choose Properties off drop down list
Choose Menus/Toolbars tab

If all the boxes on this dialog are empty leave them as is.

If any of them have the word none inside them blank them out. Then save your form.

-- tom

[BDennis]

RE: Linked set making ring-around, maybe.

Tom;
Thnks for the reply,
Well, they are that way, blank, and always have been; so I guess that is not my problem. that is on the one run-on-load form I have. Maybe something else is the problem, I�ll try the other suggestions.
Anyway, my interest is aroused. What are these menus, and what do they do? How does one set them? Except for on this message board, how are people to know about these.

Brian

[Tom Cone Jr]

RE: Linked set making ring-around, maybe.

Brian,

Chapter 29 of Dr. Wayne's first book "Learning Alpha Five: The Database for Everyone" is where I learned about custom menus.

-- tom

[BDennis]

RE: Linked set making ring-around, maybe.

Hi Tom,
Yes found it, page 253 Dr Wayne, xbasic for everyone. All I need to do now is understand and apply it.

Thanks,
Brian

[Jay Talbott]

RE: Linked set making ring-around, maybe.

Brian,

I really think you should change the blank boxes in the menu properties of the run-on-load form to from the drop down list instead of leaving the boxes blank.

The erratic nature of this problem makes it a bit hard to solve, but start there.

Jay Talbott

[BDennis]

RE: Linked set making ring-around, maybe.

Jay,

You say:
"I really think you should change the blank boxes in the menu properties of the run-on-load form to from the drop down list instead of leaving the boxes blank. "

Can you explain your meaning of "run on load form to from the drop down list"

Frm the book, I have now the idea that I can use these these menu properties to restrict users from messing up our applications by clicking in the wrong place etc. Is that realistic, maybe combined with the form properties restrictions; do you think ? I�m going to try to have an application that cannot be altered/messed up by the users.

Thanks for the help,
Brian.

[Jay Talbott]

RE: Linked set making ring-around, maybe.

Sorry,

Too early, not enough coffee.

I'll try again:

"I really think you should change the blank boxes in the menu properties of the run-on-load form to NONE from the drop down list instead of leaving the boxes blank. "

I originally had the word none in brackets. This board ate the brackets and the word.

Alpha forever, html: never (grin).

Jay