Version 5 & Hewlet Packard

[martinwcole]

does anyone know if Alpha has changed their use of dlls like mfc40, etc., that cause alpha to crash with several different HP Printers, in version 5?

I thought at first it was only the G55, but have discovered it is also with the deskjet 1220c as well as the Sony laptop Vaio computer. I just bought one to demo my app on, and it crashes in many of the same places that it crashes at with HP printers - so I presume that HP and others are modifying these dlls to the detriment of alpha.

[martinwcole]

RE: Version 5 & Hewlet Packard

?

[JerryBrightbill]

RE: Version 5 & Hewlet Packard

Martin,

There have been a number of posts about problems with HP print drivers. Search the forum for HP Printer, or HP, or something similar. Maybe you will find what you need.

One thing I have found with another program is to put the required version dll's like mfc40 in the program directory rather than in the windows/system directory. Windows looks first in the program directory. However, this won't work if the dll has already been loaded by another program. On one program I use, I have to reboot the computer and then open the program to prevent a crash, since newer dll's are used for a number of other programs. Isn't plug and play great?

Jerry

[Michael Humby]

RE: Version 5 & Hewlet Packard

Martin,

You will recall I have posted exhaustive tests concerning a problem with Alpha crashing after performing print previews and then opening certain forms on certain computers. The crash only occurs with a certain variety of print drivers that are set as default via Windows. I have finally flushed out the causes of Alpha crashing my application on these selective computers.

AlphaV4.5 onwards, no networks, on any computer

I have finally found the cause and the remedy but am at a loss as to why it should be specific print drivers or the bizaar connection between the cause and cure.

There are two causes.

1. Print preview any saved report, letter etc, then open a certain forms containing an embedded browse and the crash occurs. Remove the browse from the form and the crash will not occur, not the best of solutions. The form can be opened with a button or from the control panel, the browse can be saved, default or embedded, it makes no difference. But, the common link is, the table containing the form and browse will always have a character field that is set to contain previous values under field rules.

Alpha gives the previous value field a default index, based on the field name, and if as I often do, the fields are named 'add_1', 'add_2' for customer info, these become the default alphabetical index names and take up the number 1 and 2 slots in the index window.

To see an example create a table with a character field 'add_1', set the field rule with previous values and enter data but leave some previous value fields empty. On start up imediately select the default browse and observe it will be filtered on the number 1 slot index. (Check the records, advanced option from the default menu, you will see that the index is set to the first slot in the index list) This is fine if the previous value fields contain data, but bad news if they have null values. Sometimes there will be no records showing in the default browse because the index is set on a field containing null values.


My solution.

Build a dummy index based on a field that is guaranteed to contain data in each record and name it AABB_1. This will default to the number 1 slot in the index list and precedes the default indexes that Alpha builds for the field rule. (Providing there are no previous value fields named AAAA) I could have renamed the fields but this does not help if there are no other indexes.

The default browse on start up then shows all records and the action of opening the form that holds the embedded browse no longer causes a crash, even following a print preview and setup with a rogue print driver.

2. Another cause is having a date variable set at form level holding a null value. The solution is to place a default date in the variable even though it is not required. I am not certain yet if cause 1 and 2 are connected in any way.

Michael Humby

[martinwcole]

RE: Version 5 & Hewlet Packard

Jerry & Michael - thank's for the response. The only thing I haven't tried is putting the dlls in the Program Directory. I think you mean putting them in the folder where my application is - not Program Files on "C"

Although, I tried reinstalling Alpha from 4.01 up through 4.5-466, booting W98 2nd from a floppy, and overwriting the 5 Windows-System dll's that Alpha uses with Alpha's versions - but that didn't do it either. (mfc40,sh31w32, msvcirt,msvcrt, and msvcrt40.) I suspect other files are modified as well.

I have been hoping against hope that Alpha would change something in version 5. I have an app I have been getting ready to mass market for a year. My client/backer has an "Intellectual Property Rights" attorney working on copyrighting it. But as it stands now, the system requirements would be pretty strange. Recently, my confidence in Alpha has been greatly shaken. Some of the potential buyers I have would buy 100 or greater copies if they bought any. And there are several that would be 25 or more. But if I tell them that the only way of knowing if the app will run on a computer is to try it first, they will laugh me out the door.

While I can usually modify the app to make it work for a particular printer, when the printer changes, the fix sometimes doesn't work anymore. (Hp 1220C Deskjet is worse than HP G55 All In One)

But when it showed problems on a Sony laptop with no printer or other devices installed, I was floored. A user could install some new program they need, maybe a mapping or graphics program; or they could buy a new computer - and it could render parts of an app useless.

This weekend I brought one of the problem printers home and installed it on my computer, thinking that would be a way to try to problem solve the offending forms. But I started getting messages where Alpha had caused a fault in one of HP's drivers. (Like maybe HP has some script somewhere that says if it calls for mfc** - use this other dll, instead.)And once the program crashed so badly, it damaged the Arial font, and I had to reinstall the fonts.

Sorry I sound so gloomy, but I am just now. My fear is that there is nothing Alpha can do, because of the way their software is written. Unless there is something I am doing wrong, or some work around, Alpha is not a viable product for mass marketing. I have no way of knowing whether the time I am spending on a particular module/form/etc. will work on other computers!

[Michael Humby]

RE: Version 5 & Hewlet Packard

Martin,

Is there not a common pattern of actions leading to the crashes? Can you force the crash?

Michael

[JerryBrightbill]

RE: Version 5 & Hewlet Packard

Martin,

Sorry for the lack of clarity. I meant the folder where the A5 program is loaded. This problem is not unique to Alpha. I have had similar problems in a CAD program and continue to have a conflict in an existing program(written by IBM). Both of these conflicts are with dll's and have no connection to the problems with HP drivers. However, drivers in general and HP drivers specifically have been mentioned on the forum to contribute to many problems. I have an A5 app that only crashes on one computer due to a conflict with the video driver. The crash occurs only when print preview is maximized. Since this same computer has other video "quirks", I suspect that the problem is with the video card and driver.

With computer programs and operating systems getting more complex, comflicts seem inevitable and very frustrating. Interestingly, Microsoft is not immune. On my previous work computer, an installation of media player 6.0 corrupted my registry so badly that all of the problems could not be found. Uninstalling the player didn't work. The only solution was to reinstall Windows and even that didn't clear up all of the problems. A new computer did.

A simple question however. Does your application work correctly on a computer that was never configured for a HP printer? If it does, why suspect Alpha as the source of the problem? If even Microsoft can create the mess I had to deal with, any software can result in a conflict.

Jerry

[Michael Humby]

RE: Version 5 & Hewlet Packard

Martin,

I have been down the same path as you. My prime application would never crash on my own computer and only on a minority of client's machines, too many for comfort. Now I have flushed out the cause, the application is marketed nationally on a wide variety of computers without any problems.

My tests point to the scenario that if the active index contains zero records or null values a combination of events causes the crash. But only with certain rogue print drivers set as default (too many to blame HP alone) and only following any single print preview at some stage of the operation. Jerry mentioned maximised previews causing a crash but during my own tests I was able to dismiss this as a factor.

You may want to try experimenting the active index route. I don't know exactly how Alpha selects an index at start up but sometimes if you check the default browse, before running any queries or filters, then Advanced from the Records menu, you will find Record Number as the start up active index and sometimes it will be the first index in alphabetical order.

I personally think the .dll is a false trail otherwise, why does the Alpha invoice app not crash with certain print drivers etc.

Michael

[martinwcole]

RE: Version 5 & Hewlet Packard

Well - I will try putting the dll's in the same folder my app is in (not A5V4, they are already in that folder) tonight, via PCAnywhere.

The problems won't hold still.

Here is one that is very perplexing:
When an operator sells an extended warranty, in New Charges, it pulls up a dialog/form with an embedded browse showing hearing aids belonging to that client - so they assign the warranty to the correct hearing aid. If the client they are using is the FIRST or LAST client in the database, it crashes very badly, requiring a reboot. But if it isn't the first or last - works fine. This only occurs on the problem computers - on all others it works fine. I have tried opening not as a dialog - making a new form - opening several different ways, and using several different techniques to only show the correct records on the browse. but I haven't found a way to avoid the problem. As long as they don't use this form until another customer is added it works great.

On another form, which has buttons for additional forms, the first time one of the forms loads it works great, but the second time it crashes - when I use Ctrl-Alt-Delete to close open programs or reboot, one of the messages I get is "DDE Server" error. I have no idea where that comes from. I'm not using DDE. And I'm using a standalone.

In general it seems to occur more frequently when a form is opened as a dialog, but not always.

[martinwcole]

RE: Version 5 & Hewlet Packard

I have no crashes associated with printing, print previews, etc. My crashes are all when opening forms. I will continue to look for work arounds. 98.5 % of the app works fine - just certain things.

[russ Boehle]

RE: Version 5 & Hewlet Packard

For your first problem perhaps you could create 2 records with keys so they will always be first and last in the dbf. for example one could have a key of "ALT 001"
(this won't print on this board)for the first record (if character) and for the last "alt 254" . This is sort of a cludgy workaround but if it works until something better comes around, what the heck.
On the button, perhaps you could rewrite the code on it so it completely reloads, resets or whatever, perhaps close the screen and reopen it? Again a cludge, but sometimes you have to do whatever it takes to get the thing working.

Russ

[martinwcole]

RE: Version 5 & Hewlet Packard

thank's Russ. I tried the dll's in all possible folders. No help.

Here's what I tried with the first-last. (its first and last in customer number order, but not in record number order - although the last record entered would have to be in record number order, too.)

I created a new form - no rules. And put a button on it to create a query based on the customer number value) - it crashed. I think I may try the dummy records - but man oh man all the forms and browses and reports that would have to be filtered - to exclude them.

Does anyone know if version 5 will be different? regarding dll's?

[martinwcole]

RE: Version 5 & Hewlet Packard

Just thought of something. If Windows XP will protect from changes to system files, perhaps it would protect the same dlls (or whatever causes the problems) - and, if so, "fix" things.

Also - HP and others will have to make new drivers. And perhaps the new ones won't cause problems. I could install it on problem computers.

[Peter.Greulich]

RE: Version 5 & Hewlet Packard

Martin,

Not to rub salt in the wound. You may be grasping at straws to hope that HP will come out with new drivers, etc. I know many Alpha lovers are bending over backwards to blame HP, MS or whomever for these Alpha crashes. The fact is it is an Alpha problem. Other programs get along fine with the drivers. I know, people cite examples where another program crashes, but this really is the exception, not the rule. Hopefully, Alpha recognizes that their very survival and viability depends upon fixing this. I can only trust that ver. 5 fixes resolves the issue. If I get a chance, in the next week, I will reload my HP driver and test my app on v5 beta. Please note FWIW that the mere presence of this printer driver almost immediately crases my app. I'll let you know what happens...

Peter

[French]

RE: Version 5 & Hewlet Packard

...and none of this explains those of us running A5 happily on machines using HP drivers with no apparent problem.