Simple question for the Network Experts amongst us

[mronck]

Hi Guys,

I have a simple question:

When you install your app on a network, you install the app on the server, install runtimes on the clients and run the app from the client.

We can go a long way in customizing the app so it looks like an application independend from Alpha.
But how do we do that with the runtime ?
Can we create a runtime without CP etc. just buttons to perform tasks needed ?

How do you do it in practice, just use the runtime, or do you modify it in some way, or do you create your own "runtime apps".

Please point me in the right direction with this...

Greetings

Marcel

[Tom Cone Jr]

RE: Simple question for the Network Experts amongs

I design the app to start from a shortcut icon on the user's desktop. They do not start the runtime engine and then manually open the app. Instead the shortcut does this for them. Since my app does not permit them to get the control panel they need never be aware that the runtime could be run separately. As a practical matter however, I've found that it's helpful to explain the setup to them anyway.

-- tom

[mronck]

RE: Simple question for the Network Experts amongs

Hi Tom,

I guess you would install the applications yourself on Site then ?
How else would you get the shortcuts on the clients desktops ?
What if you do NOT install the applications yourself, but let us say, just send them on CD-Rom over the post ?

Greetings,

Marcel

[Finian Lennon]

RE: Simple question for the Network Experts amongs

This is really a job for an install program. For the simplest cases the built-in Alpha installer is adequate. For more complex scenarios you can try the Astrum Installer or Install Creator, both of which I've used.

With an installer you can package the job of installing all the necessary files, including the runtime, and create desktop shortcuts that - with the right command lies and icons present - can completely hide the fact that Alpha was the development tool.

Finian

[mronck]

RE: Simple question for the Network Experts amongs

Hi Finian,

Yes, that's it.
It may sound stupid, but I just did not make that connection. Of course I have used installers before, I just did not think of it as a way to have the shortcut installed in case of the runtime only.

Thanks.

Marcel

[whanigsberg]

RE: Simple question for the Network Experts amongs

On a Novell network you can create a "Nal object" (Nal=Novel application launcher) which will pump an application on to a local client from the network.

This tool is not as flexible as an install program but if you need to install an identical (and identically configured) application to multiple local machines this is a one-click solution.

Bill

[CALocklin]

RE: Simple question for the Network Experts amongs

OK guys, now tell me how you get the workstation optimized if you don't know the paths the user will have and without allowing the user to get to the control panel. (In other words, it's a generic app and you have no idea who will be installing it or where they will be installing it.)

Cal Locklin
www.aimsdc.net

[Tom Cone Jr]

RE: Simple question for the Network Experts amongs

Cal,

I think it's unrealistic and a bit dangerous to try to produce a 'shrink-wrapped' multi-user app that could be installed on 'any' LAN with zero input from the developer, apart from built in help and a self-installer.

Am I nuts?

Is anyone doing this successfully?

-- tom

[whanigsberg]

RE: Simple question for the Network Experts amongs

I provide a site-specific install. Once the network admin sets up user groups you know that all members of a particular group will share drive mappings. Therefore you can create an install for all local files (shadow, shortcut, registry keys).


But since this convention would exist only on a site-by-site basis I see no way of producing a generic install for the multi-user case.

So I'm with Tom and he probably isn't nuts.

Of course, if you set up a recommended drive mapping scheme and can convince admin on a site to adopt it you won't have to make them a new install.

Bill

[mronck]

RE: Simple question for the Network Experts amongs

All valid points here.
So the conclusion can be, if not premature, that you can not shrink-wrap a final solution for clients.

You should create an installer that "installs" the runtime and then offer the right documentation to run the client normally, and offer the right documentation to run it optimized.

However, couldn't you create an app with an xbasic script that prompts for the "master" database path name, and then have the master database loaded from there ?
There could also be a button that launches the optimization dialog (if possible) but that would probably have to end there, and leaving the rest to the user.

Regards,

Marcel

[Finian Lennon]

RE: Simple question for the Network Experts amongs

Not exactly but we're beta testing our upgrade program now. So far, so good ....

For the sake of sanity, I have two install programs, one for the server, one for the workstation.

I require that the server installation be into a specific folder name, but don't care on which drive the files are installed.

For backward compatibility purposes I require that the install folder be shared. I remove the share from the current location of the database. See mapping below.

I force the install of the runtime to the the C drive but have a written a separate version that doesn't care. The shortcut opens the master copy.

The workstation version prompts the user for the server name. This is required for mapping purposes. I don't know of an easy way to get this with an inexperienced user. So, on the button which sets up the app options, the first thing it does is pop up the machine name. The workstation instructions direct the user to the server to they can click that button.

Once they enter the server name, the code deletes the existing U drive mapping and recreates the mapping to the servername\install folder. It the creates the shadow folder and optimizes the files silently to that location. (Anyone who wants a working V5 function to do this - I got the core from Selwyn because the current V5 silent option does not work - can email me.)

The last step is the creation of two desktop icons. One runs the silent optimization. The second has the shadow startup.

This is designed for a typical in-office LAN. I haven't tested it extensively on a large network such as Bill works with. Having said that, all my testing WAS done on machines that are part of a large domain so who, knows. As long as the machines are shared and the "server" folder has shares for "everyone" it worked fine.

I ended up using the Wise Installer for this. Over the course of several months I worked my way from Install Creator to Astrum each time hitting what seemed to be insurmountable obstacles with each. Looking back, it seems to me that the only reason I gave up on Astrum was that there didn't seem to be a way that allowed the user to select ONLY the install drive and keep them out of folder level selections. If I had time I visit that. However, all the other stuff I describe above is done in the A5 apps that are launched by Wise.

Wise can be hard to fathom until you realise that its ability to create scripts pretty much allows you to do anything - or at least allowed me to do what I needed to do. Fortunately I didn't have to pay for the installer, we already had a license. The prices for the latest Wise and Installshield - which my co-workers use and hate - are jaw-dropping. In any event, it's the simple scripting that keeps me with Wise because it's so easy to make quick changes.

Finian

[CALocklin]

RE: Simple question for the Network Experts amongs

I'm not surprised to see Finian with the closest thing so far. (I'll probably be contacting him for the optimize info.)

Here's what I do. It doesn't require any special drives or folders but it does require that somebody at the install location know how to navigate a network with Windows Explorer - or equivalent. My assumption is that someone has to set up the folders to be shared and that person should be able to navigate folders.

First, the app is installed on the server using my server install file created with Astrum. This can be done to any folder or drive and can include a copy of A5 or not. BUT, the person who installs it must know how to share the folder and be smart enough to remember what folder it was installed in. (Yes, sometimes even the last part is asking a lot.)

Second, a special workstation app is installed on the workstation - any folder, any drive. This is actually a 'generic' app that can be used for any application installation just by changing the name of the .adb and .al* files. The application has only one table - Menus.dbf. This is the table I use for menu forms in all my applications. (If a different table is used in the app, it would still work but the Menus table would be left setting there "orphaned".)

The workstation install installs the runtime and the application. The app is installed to "A5Runtime_folder>\Shadow\"adb_name>\"adb_name>.adb. A shortcut icon is put on the desktop to start this application. Note that this is a "full" application at this point even though it is in the Shadow folder.

When the user starts the workstation application, a screen appears (see attachment) that provides instructions on navigating to the server and starting that application then clicking my Update to Server button to start the initial optimization. This optimization will overwrite the original app installed on the workstation and the next time the user clicks the desktop icon, the real app will start (shadowed, of course). (FYI: I got away from using the term Network Optimize because too many people thought it was doing something to make the whole network run better.)

You should note that the text is very generic and the name of the application is being taken from the .adb file. In the example, the name of the .adb file is Diet_Results.adb. By doing this, I don't even have to change the text to use these files for another application. All that is changed is the .adb name.

One last but very important thing. You may have noticed that the user does not go to the control panel to run the initial optimization. This is the only use I have anymore for the Opt_Net_v5 addin I created. (Selwyn has now added most of the other functionality right into A5.) The Opt_Net_v5 addin allows a user to run a full optimize without going to the control panel.

The Opt_Net_v5 routine basically uses the Create_Shadow() function to run the full optimize. The rest of the routine just decides whether to run a full optimize or a refresh optimize, calculates the shadow path, and runs my Copy_other_files() function that copies any .aex files or .al* files in the server folder to the shadow folder. It also copies any files listed in Alpha's ".Network_Optimization_Additional_Files" file. (In other words, it's not really a complicated script. I think anyone who has responded to this thread so far could create the same thing very easily.)

Cal Locklin
www.aimsdc.net

[CALocklin]

RE: Simple question for the Network Experts amongs

Sorry, I forgot the attachment.

[mronck]

RE: Simple question for the Network Experts amongs

Hi Call and others,

This is a very interesting thread !

However, it is possible to give the user on a client computer the possibilty to network optimize without giving him full access to the control panel, as I found out (I am sure I invented this wheel at least for the second time).

You can create a button on any form, and attach a piece of action scripting to it using the command "Select action from the control panel" and then choose "Application" and "Network Optimize".

This will enable the user to startup the Optimizing process without having access to the whole CP.
Thought I should share this with you, incase it was not obvious already...

The function needs to be implemented in the main application.

Regards,

Marcel

[CALocklin]

RE: Simple question for the Network Experts amongs

Marcel,

Where did you find that? I can find a "Refresh Shadow" as an Action Script but not something to create a new shadow database.

Also, I tried creating a new button and looking on the Pre-defined Buttons tab and couldn't find anything there.

Cal Locklin
www.aimsdc.net