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RunTime - Need Pro's & Cons

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    RunTime - Need Pro's & Cons

    I have a few programs I want to write and distribute. I need to know the pro's and con's with Alpha5's RunTime program. What limitations does an end user have over the full version, for example. I know they won't be able to change my applications which is good, but will they be able to create and design their own reports, letters, email, etc?

    Can you lock people out of the control panel or give them access to it ... my choice? What's the pro's and con's to this?

    If anybody has a runtime program I can review (install and run) so I can see what the runtime program is about, that would be great.

    What about installing it ... is it hard to create an installation process? Virtually 100% of the installations for my program will need to be via CD meaning I will not be physically installing the program for them. How are others creating installation programs.

    With my first program I want to distribute it will be a single user. My next program will need to be ran off a network ... is that going to create any problems? I currently only own a single user version of v5.

    I think you get the idea of what I'm looking for here. All replies will be greatly appreciated. And, if anybody has a runtime program they can email me for me to review, that would be extremely appreciated so I can see what the limitations are, how smooth the installation goes, etc.

    #2
    RE: RunTime - Need Pro's & Cons

    I know they won't be able to change my applications which is good, but will they be able to create and design their own reports, letters, email, etc?

    Your application IS the reports, letters, and other layouts. (Maybe not e-mail?) It is also the scripts. So, layout of fields on reports and letters cannot be designed BUT the text in them can be modified.

    Can you lock people out of the control panel or give them access to it ... my choice? What's the pro's and con's to this?

    Yes. In fact, I believe they are locked out by default. You can give them access but they will not be able to do a whole lot of things. It's easier to list what they can do:
    Tables/Sets: Open Default Form, Open Default Browse, Run SAVED Operations, Update existing indexes, View properties.
    Forms/Reports/Labels/Letters: View, Preview, Print, Copy, Paste.
    Operations: Run existing saved operations.
    Code: Not accessible.

    Sorry, I would not send you a copy (I don't have it myself yet) because that would be the same as giving it to you for free.

    Installation: This really isn't an Alpha issue. It depends on what Windows installation routine you want to use. There are a number of freeware, shareware, and, of course, retail versions. Like any installation, a single user would be easier to set up because you don't need to worry about setting up both the server and the workstations then creating icons to access them. Personally, I would much rather maintain a networked application in Alpha than Access but either one is more difficult than a single user version.

    Comment


      #3
      RE: RunTime - Need Pro's & Cons

      Bradley,

      The reason you are not getting answers here is that the issues you raise have been ventilated repeatedly on this board, in both the Ver. 5 forum and more extensively in the Ver. 4 forum.

      I suggest you do a few searches on "runtime" alone and in combination with other keywords. Do some reading and then post whatever questions remain.

      I'm sure people will then be more forthcoming.

      Bill
      Bill Hanigsberg

      Comment


        #4
        RE: RunTime - Need Pro's & Cons

        I did do a search in the V5 area on "runtime" and have read all of them. I'll jump over to V4 area and read them also.

        This thread is the only one I've seen addressing specifical what the difference is between Runtime & full. In order for me to consider getting the Alpha Runtime copy, especially with the HUGE price tag on it I need to know the pro's and con's to it, to know exactly what I'd be getting myself into. As is, I already have the runtime for Access XP and if I can't get enough information to determine if Alpha runtime will allow me to accomplish what I want to accomplish or not, since I already have Access's Runtime version then it makes sense to go that rout.

        One person mentioned that if they sent me a runtime it would be like giving it away free. Giving what away free? It's not like I would start using the program or anything. Heck, I wouldn't care if somebody sent me one of the sample programs that comes with Alpha5 as a runtime. I just need to see what's different, etc so I can determine if Alpha Runtime is the way to go.

        I'm just not going to spend that much money on the runtime version if I'm not clear on exactly what it is, limitations, etc.

        I hope this all makes sense. I hope people will continue commenting on this thread since it's the only one like it I've seen and I'm sure other Alpha 5ers would like one specific thread addressing this question of Pro's and Con's to the Runtime program. Many of us out here would love to be able to write a software program and distribute it as a profit center, but many of us don't know what that would entail from the programming side, how we'd need to write the program differently for a runtime, etc.

        I think this could be a very good thread that many other people would greatly appreciate. Let's keep the discussion going ... what do you all say?

        Comment


          #5
          RE: RunTime - Need Pro's & Cons

          Well Sir Bradley,

          I don't think anyone can tell you much of the pros and cons of runtime. It simply boils down to this. If you want to distribute apps that your users can't modify, change the code, etc. then you need the runtime. The alternative is to have them purchase v5 and then you can block them from the control panel and password protect the sensitive parts of your app.

          Guess you need to decide the most ecomomical route basing it on your needs and your client's needs as well.

          kenn
          TYVM :) kenn

          Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.

          Comment


            #6
            RE: RunTime - Need Pro's & Cons

            Bradley,

            Perhaps you know this, but Alpha's runtime is NOT a compiled exe. Rather, it is identical to the full version - excepting the limitations described by Cal above. So the runtime is in-fact the Alpha program. Your application runs under the runtime, exactly as your application runs under the full program.

            Peter
            Peter
            AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

            [email protected]
            https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


            Comment


              #7
              RE: RunTime - Need Pro's & Cons

              The A5 runtime is the same as the full version with the ability the create and maintain applications taken out (or disabled). You cannot compile your application and create a .exe file for distribution as you can in Visual Basic and some other development software. I'm not saying that is good or bad just a fact. I got the impression that you were not asking for the runtime, but a sample application that had been compiled. That is not possible with A5 at this time.

              Comment


                #8
                RE: RunTime - Need Pro's & Cons

                As far as distribution... I am using the Setup Specialist Windows installer package to do the full install of all runtime files and my application via CD. The installation looks very professional and is seamless to the end user that the Alpha runtime is being installed separately. This is only being installed as single user setup right now and works very well. Network installs will take a bit of re-working I suspect.

                -Kevin Anderson

                Comment


                  #9
                  RE: RunTime - Need Pro's & Cons

                  Hi Kevin,

                  Do you recommend setup specialist? Is it easy to work with?

                  Thanks,
                  Bill
                  Bill Hanigsberg

                  Comment


                    #10
                    RE: RunTime - Need Pro's & Cons

                    I have not tried any others, other than Indigo Rose which we distribute our VB apps with. I can highly recommend Setup Specialist to anyone for Alpha apps. It's simple to use and I tell ya the install is as professional as they come if you ask me. You can even specify minimum system specs as well that could help alleviate some problems before they have a chance to pop up, as in a minimum video resolution in our case.

                    SS even reminds me of Alpha... very easy to use, and very capable in what it will produce. Embed License Agreements and readme files, write to the registry if needed, install and register DLL's... the works. They offer a fully functional demo. Try it... I think you will be pleased.

                    (Has a truely functional uninstall as well that does a better job of removing all traces of an app than we have found Indigo to do. Can also produce internet enabled special download apps that install a small file locally and guide the user through the rest of the download and install. Sounds much like the IE install MS uses. Better info on that on their website.)

                    http://www.us.setupspecialist.com/en/

                    Kevin Anderson
                    Anderson Software

                    Comment


                      #11
                      RE: RunTime - Need Pro's & Cons

                      More Info on Setup Specialist for those interested.
                      And no, I have no stock in their company. :-)

                      Completely visual development environment - no programming or scripting required

                      Intuitive tabbed user interface

                      Complete context sensitive ("F1") help available

                      Interactive training card feature guides you through the setup creation process

                      Imports Microsoft� Visual Basic� 6.0 projects

                      "Watch Application" wizard helps you to determine the components required to run your application

                      Imports Windows Registry Editor files

                      Royalty free distribution

                      Supports Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows NT, Windows 2000 and Windows XP (including current Windows .NET server beta)

                      Modifies the Windows� Registry

                      Creates Start Menu as well as Desktop shortcuts/icons

                      Modifies INI files

                      Launches external programs during the setup process

                      High file compression ratio saves disk space and bandwidth

                      Automatically detect the location of a previous installation of your application

                      Optionally removes previously installed version of your application

                      Conditional install of files, registry settings, program icons

                      Complies with the modern "Wizard97" standard

                      Natively supports the new Windows XP look

                      Choose which dialogs are displayed during the setup

                      Set the main window background to any color gradient

                      Completely disable the background window

                      Supports custom logo graphics and title bitmap

                      Display "billboard" advertising graphics during the file copy process

                      Display a license agreement

                      Prompt for user information, such as name, company name and serial number

                      Display late-breaking readme information

                      Allow the user to change the destination directory

                      Prompt for the name of the Start Menu program folder

                      Allow the user to choose the setup type such as Typical, Custom or Full

                      Offer the user the option to directly run your application at the end of the setup

                      Copies your files to nearly any possible location on the target system

                      Supports file version checking

                      Supports OCX/DLL/ActiveX registration ("self-registration")

                      Supports Type Libary registration

                      Supports the Windows shared file usage counting mechanism

                      Supports installation of TrueType� fonts

                      Provides efficient file compression

                      Prompts for Start Menu folder and allows browsing of existing folders

                      Creates shortcuts on the Start Menu, Programs Menu and on the Desktop

                      Specify working directory and custom icon

                      Check for System Requirements
                      Check operating system platform and version number
                      Check for minimum display resolution
                      Check for minimum CPU class
                      Ensure that a previous version of your application is not running during the installation
                      Check for expiration date

                      International Support Std Pro
                      11 built-in installation languages
                      Multi-lingual installations allow the user to choose his preferred language before the setup starts
                      Set different setup texts per installation language

                      Internet Distribution
                      Creates single-file installers ideally suited for online distribution

                      WebSetup� simplifies and improves the reliability of your downloadable setups

                      Supports partial installations (typical, minimal, custom)

                      Files can be clearly grouped simplifying the maintenance of your setup project

                      Complete "one step" uninstall
                      Added to "Add/Remove" Control Panel applet

                      Unattended Installation
                      Installs your application without any user intervention
                      Ideal to automatically deploy an application on multiple computers

                      Password-protect your installer

                      Extend the setup program's functionality using a custom plug-in DLL

                      Conditionally perform the installation based on target operating system and/or external variables

                      Unlimited technical support via internet and e-mail

                      Comment


                        #12
                        RE: RunTime - Need Pro's & Cons

                        The only thing missing is the price tag.

                        kenn
                        TYVM :) kenn

                        Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          RE: RunTime - Need Pro's & Cons

                          $96.50 - Standard
                          $145 - Pro

                          As compared to $395 for Indigo Rose's Setup factory.
                          And I found it easier to use. Others may know of a better solution.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            RE: RunTime - Need Pro's & Cons

                            Kevin,

                            Let me recap for my simple brain, if I may: I create an A5V5 runtime of my application, then I make a Setup Specialist install which I deliver to my clients. Did I get it right?

                            Dave
                            Dave Jampole
                            www.customalpha.com

                            Women and cats will do whatever they want. The sooner men and dogs realize that, the happier they will be.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              RE: RunTime - Need Pro's & Cons

                              Hi Dave,
                              Well all I'm capable of is a simple minded answer. :-)

                              You create your application.
                              You create a setup profile in SS that compiles your application files and the runtime files, and it creates a single setup.exe file that executes the standard install program and loads all of the files onto the end user's system.

                              I don't mean "compiles" as you might expect in VB, but it does compile the files you have selected for the install and creates a single "setup.exe" to deploy and install them with. It's a mighty slick little program, and it keeps you from having to force the end user to "run" the Alpha Five runtime installation itself to get it loaded on their system. SS allows you to load the A5 RT engine, all support files and your app... all in one seamless pass that you have total control over. Hope that is clear enough.

                              -Kevin

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