Pricing

[dchiass]

RE: Pricing

No.

You buy a WEB license like you do Alpha5 now, roll-in the extra cost of the software if a client asks for web capability. How is that any different then what we do now?

If you buy a computer where is the warranty from? In my part of the world if I buy a PC with a MAXTOR then I "usually" contact MAXTOR supplier locally if it packs it in within the warranty period.

Some PC makers do have their own warranty though.

DeWayne

[Van Jones]

RE: Pricing

It is completely different than how we do it now. The runtime cost is a one time cost to me as a developer. The cost to pass on to my customers is relatively low because I can divide the cost among all future sales.

With WAS, the cost is repeated with every new customer. The cost to pass on to my customers is much higher because each customer must have a full license.

I go back to my example of building apps for churches on non-profits. The idea of having the clients access the apps through WAS simplified the install and looked as though support issues would be reduced. The problem I have is that an app I would sell for $299 to these customers by using the runtime will now cost me $999. At that price point, I won't have these customers anymore.

We need a license for WAS that follows the same guidelines as the runtimes. It is a one time purchase for the developer and can be used at as many customer sites as needed, but with limitations like a maximum of 20 user connections and can only run 2 applications.

[DaveM]

RE: Pricing

Marcel,

You took that point the wrong way. You are the car sales man that sold the car I made.

You will be sure that your customer does not forget you, but there are things down the road that maybe you cannot control. You may be able to help but not make perfect. That is the resposibility of the maker(me). You will make sure that they get service and so will I as the maker because I want them to buy from YOU again because you sell my product.

Make better sense?

I do prefer the end user, who may not even be the purchaser, to not know who is supplying what. I guess that with the new pricing, that may not be.

I am not the smartest one comes here 156IQ. There are higher ones here, I am double sure.

There are other solutions than Alpha out there, but I doubt they will be as seemless as Alpha will make it. Each of us will have to figure our own needs and desires against our client needs and wants.

Dave

[DaveM]

RE: Pricing

Lenny,

Price sold for is goverened by WANT, NEED, CAN AFFORD and in that order. I could elaborate for hours and have when doing sales training. This is the first lesson in auto sales. It has always applied to other sales too

Dave

[Gordon Bliss]

RE: Pricing

Dave,
With all due respect, Car sales and software development are two different worlds. In car sales, you are acting as an agent of the manufacture. An obvious reseller. In software development, You ARE the manufacture. Nobody cares what program or language Quicken is developed in. Only that it works. And if it doesn't because there was a bug in C++, who are you going to complain to? Microsoft? Charging more for more features only makes sense but... If Alpha maintains their current pricing policy regarding WAS, it will greatly impact who will become an end user. I venture to say most small businesses who could benefit from this product will be priced out of the market. So what do you want? two really great Hummers on the road or a zillion VW's?
Power to the People!
ps: I really like Alphasoftware.

[Cheryl Lemire]

RE: Pricing


Wow, I think you are all missing the point here. Have any of you stopped to calculate the cost of any 'webserver'???

If you purchase a domain name, ie google.com or yahoo.com, you pay for the name, and then you pay for the 'webserver'

You can pay a monthly fee for this internet service or you can maintain your own server. WAS is a means for you to maintain your own server and control this from your own end.

Think of the monthly cost of an internet web hosting service, then add the fact that there is no easy way to manipulate your Alpha applications using it.

The cost of WAS is minimal and more than worth the benefits you, as a developer, will reap in the long term.

As far as a client 'knowing' that the software you use to create your application is Alpha, why does that even matter???? Do I care what brand underwear you have? Nor do I care if the software you use is Alpha, Access, FileMaker, MySQL, Oracle, or any other db program out there.

Alpha Software is a phenominal product and I for one am NOT ashamed for my clients to know that it is the software that I use to create their applications :)

[mronck]

RE: Pricing

Hi Cheryl.

Of course this is not an issue of being ashamed to use Alpha. We all have a certain bondage with that great product, I think that is not the issue here.

When you sell products from the shelf in stores, like I do, how would that have to work if the customer buys my product, installs it, and then has to contact Alpha to get a WAS license (in Holland "WAS" equals "LAUNDRY" by the way). He buys my product for let us say $60 and then needs a license for $699 ?

Again, two points:
1- WAS license fee needs to be included in runtime fee
2- End customer would not need to license WAS but the developer.

I guess that is what I think or would advise.
There is a huge difference between a company developing for its own use or a company that creates software to be sold from the shelf stores.

Good discussion though, in this way the problem gets structurized and a solution comes into sight for anyone who wants to see it.

Kind regards,

Marcel

[DaveM]

RE: Pricing

Gordon,

"Car sales and software development are two different worlds"

I have been doing both for over 30 years and you intend to tell me how different they are???? I doubt it, but in case you have been selling cars for 45+ years and doing software since '71, go ahead. I could spend a long time explaining how much alike they are.

"In car sales, you are acting as an agent of the manufacture"

That is so far from reality!

I work for a Dealership and sell the products of the dealership that happen to be GM Products. We also sell other products that GM does not make. GM warranties and pays us to repair their product. WE/I do not answer to GM about any price we sell the products for. It is up to us to win/lose/draw in profit. GM will not pay me a dime of wages ever for selling the Dealerships vehicles.

I have the good fortune of being one of the best in my field and can sell anything I want, but if I were and agent of GM, I would be selling cars to the Dealerships.

I'm not trying to sound off on you, but you would be surprised at how many people blamed me for some imperfection when I did not make their car. I never would sell some makes because of the shoddiness. I am sure you would not do Alpha if it was shoddy either.

Dave

[john coon]

RE: Pricing

Marcel,

Even if the license was included in the price, have you thought what a small church or such will run the web server on. Are they all going to have a web server or hosting service availible in their budget.

The WAS license will have to be used on a server somewhere.
How else will they use it. The real issue should be to make sure there are servers availible to your clients. If you would host a server or talk a local isp into hosting a server you would only need 1 license per server. $60.00 A client for the software, $50.00 extra for the rights to access the server for the life of the app or a small monthly fee.

This would still be cheaper than them having to buy a server or hosting it regardless of the price of the license. Also they would not have to know or buy a license from Alpha, the ISP or you would do this.

Just my opinion.

[Gordon Bliss]

RE: Pricing

I like the way you think!

[mronck]

RE: Pricing

Hi John,

Yes, your point of view was shared by others on this forum as well, and it is a valid one too.
The only thing what could be brought against this (good) solution of hosting your customers apps on your server would be that one could say he is an application developer and not a hosting operation.
But it is the best solution at hand for now, and I also can not come up with a better one.

++
* It prevents the customer from having to close a license agreement with Alpha;
* It prevents from high pricing of the app;
* It brings in extra money for the developer;

--
* It will change your set of responsabilities

Kind regards,

Marcel

[Bobby Neal]

RE: Pricing

I for one have been very exited for a while now anticipating the arival of A5v6. One of the main things they have advertised is its ability to access your data over the internet. I thought, "how convenient this will be". I knew I would have to buy a copy of the software to develop and run my applications and was expecting it to cost a few hundred, but I was mighty disappointed to find out I would have to spend an additional $699.00 to buy an additional piece of software in order to use it over my server. "Build interactive, data-driven desktop and web applications" is what is advertised on the alpha website about V6. I really fail to see why Alpha bothered to include the ability to build a website if you weren't allowed to use it. At most it should have been an add-in feature you could purchase along with your liscense. I have not yet purchased V6, but as I understand it, the website building feature is completely useless with out the liscense. I have seen a lot of references to the car sales industry in this thread, one person compared it to buying a car with a 150 hp motor and having the option to pay extra to upgrade to 300 hp. In my opinion, it is like buying a car without a motor at all, it may look pretty and have a nice stereo, but if you want it to go, you have to buy a motor at an additional price. It would be nice to access my records over the net, but at a minimum cost of $898.00 (A5v6 1 user upgrade at $199.00 + $699.00 for the WAS) just for the software, That's a little out of my range. I love Alpha products. I started using them (alpha4v3) when it only cost $49.00 to purchase. As a very small business owner, I could afford that. I have upgraded most every time they had a new product out even though they have got a lot more expensive, but $898.00 is out of my range. I'll just stick to my current version.

I wish Alhpa software all the luck,
Thanks,
Bobby

[[email protected]]

RE: Pricing

I'm very new to Alpha but I'd like to share an observation. I just came from Filemaker where the web application was included with a purchase of the regular software, about $350. It is a very stipped down version, allowing only 5 people to access the database at a time, but it works. And it serves up your actual forms. To get into the "business" of unlimited people accessing the data is much more expensive than Alpha. It's not available yet but I think it will be about $1500. So Alpha is in the middle price wise, but being able to access your own data remotely would be nice. I guess it's one of those situations where you can't please everyone.

Having said that, the marketing could be clearer that the web option is just that, an option, and not included with V6. I must say I was a little surprised, but I just figured I hadn't read the marketing materials thoroughly.

It's too bad some are so disappointed that they'll not upgrade to V6, because that and the web version are really two separate issues, and priced that way.

Bill Belanger

[mronck]

RE: Pricing

Hi Bobby,

Although I also have my concernc about the pricing structure used for WAS, one should maybe not reflect that onto V6. As you know, A6 is primarily a developing environment. It allows you to develop Web Based Applications. How that application is used once built, is a totally different question.

To stay with the car-example:
You can built a car, but in order to drive it, you need to put gasoline into it (and you will not have to do it once only either).

If you want to use the app developed with A6 on a server, you need WAS.

If you buy any other software product you would not be surprised if you had to buy a Windows license first because the just bought product needs it to run.
Nobody expects the developer of the other product to pack Windows for free with the package.

How come this does not apply for Alpha ?

Kind regards,

Marcel

[Bjorn Hallberg]

RE: Pricing

"but being able to access your own data remotely would be nice"

I second that, in fact I believed that it at least had one connection, so you could test web-application for real.

I think Alphasoftware should reconsider it.

I believe that a cheap 3-user connection will make everyone happy.

Thanks