Alpha5 "for non-programmers". That's BS!

[Steve Pick]

Re: Alpha5 "for non-programmers". That's BS!

An interesting thread.

On this, board I typed in GRID, WHAT IS and got so much irrelavent info I thought I would use the HELP on the menu (V7) to find a tutorial or reference manual. However I did find this thread and a few dummies like myself.

In the A5 info I did find:
New Grid Customization New grid customization options allow you to add HTML code:
below the column headings and above the existing records of grid.

below the existing records and above the rows used to enter new records

between rows of the grid.




But WHAT IS A GRID?

A4 never had them. Were they just introduced in V7 as I don't remember seeing the word in previous versions.

Steve

[Peter.Greulich]

Re: Alpha5 "for non-programmers". That's BS!

But WHAT IS A GRID?

A4 never had them. Were they just introduced in V7 as I don't remember seeing the word in previous versions.

Grid = a WEB (i.e WAS) browse

[Steve Wood]

Re: Alpha5 "for non-programmers". That's BS!

.

[Tom Cone Jr]

Re: Alpha5 "for non-programmers". That's BS!

a Grid Component is an object used in a Web App Server application. It's not applicable to traditional desktop apps. For more info open HELP then choose Index tab, then type Grid.

--tom

[Steve Pick]

Re: Alpha5 "for non-programmers". That's BS!

Thanks all for quick explanation. I guess for now I needn't figure out when to use and apply it.

Steve

[iggy21uk]

Re: Alpha5 "for non-programmers". That's BS!

I'm non-programmer, bought Alpha v7 have thought it might be easier than Access tried reading the tutorials, been playing with Alpha Sports so much so had to delete it as it kept on bring up error after error no wiser than day one.

Now special offer for Alpha 5 V8 should I ????

then I read......

Tesco in the UK bring out a complete package with a relational database for �20.00 [$30.00].

I know it won't be the same as Alapha 5 but if I can't get it to do what I want I hav'nt lost a lot.

[Mark Campidonica]

Re: Alpha5 "for non-programmers". That's BS!

Tesco in the UK bring out a complete package with a relational database for �20.00 [$30.00].

I know it won't be the same as Alapha 5 but if I can't get it to do what I want I hav'nt lost a lot.

I think anyone, except perhaps a very experienced Access programmer, would agree that A5 is much easier to use than Access.

I'm glad to see that I haven't seen much of "for non-programmers" being used in Alpha Software's pitches ... because A5 requires a lot of programming. The application allows you to develop commerical grade database applications in Web and/or Desktop environments. On the other hand it is cheap enough (a good wordprocessor program costs more than A5 at promotional pricing) to use for personal applications, which is how I use it.

If you want to track recipies, or make a custom address book, your $30.00 program may be easier to use than A5 and a better purchase. I use Wordpad a lot to write notes, rather than WordPerfect, my regular application for writing because Wordpad is very easy to use. Wordpad also works faster with my dictation application (Dragon Naturallyspeaking, which also works well with A5).

Just don't try and use Wordpad to write your Doctoral thesis (I used WordPerfect) or your $30.00 program to run a 65 person boot camp (I used A5).

[Robin Hoare]

Re: Alpha5 "for non-programmers". That's BS!

A good word processing program (and spreadsheet etc.) will cost you $0.00 if you download it from OpenOffice.org

Have used it for years, will save and read files in the usual MS formats.

Robin

[jmatienza]

Re: Alpha5 "for non-programmers". That's BS!

Just curious. The database component of OpenOffice.org is the least known in the entire suite. Anybody have comments about it, tried it, etc?

[Peter.Greulich]

Re: Alpha5 "for non-programmers". That's BS!

Just curious. The database component of OpenOffice.org is the least known in the entire suite. Anybody have comments about it, tried it, etc?

Somebody here in my office has it. I glanced at it once. It's very bare-bones. I think MS-Works has a similar very basic database, as well. Comparing those products to Alpha5 is like comparing a first year elementary school child to a PhD in computer science. There is no comparison.

[Marcel Kollenaar]

Re: Alpha5 "for non-programmers". That's BS!

Have a look at HSQLDB and a database tutorial for OpenOffice Base.

You will need more brains because not everything is as nice documented as in Alpha Five so a lot of try and error is needed. No Genies, no XDialog but there is a basic language present which is as strong as VBA.

I glanced at the StarOffice version with the Adabas engine but for the time being I'll stick to Alpha Five. ;)

[Thontlb]

Re: Alpha5 "for non-programmers". That's BS!

There are a couple of databases equal to or easier than Alpha. Most are less powerful than Alpha. The most notable one and the most powerul and one that Alpha compares itself to is MS Access. There's no comparison in how much easier Access is than Alpha. I've used Access since V2 and Alpha Dos 2,3,4, and all of Alpha's windows versions except there will be no V8. (I never gave up hope for alpha, just money) The vba language is simple. The wizards are plentiful and can be revised to suit. You can sucurely complie acess databases for distribution (for free) by compiling it as an .MDE file which the user must run on his own copy of access. All of the code, reports, form...everything is secure from changes. There is a runtime available if you want to buy Visual Studio and Microsoft Tools for Developers, but even most Access professional devlopers don't distribute their apps that way. They just compile an .mde rather than an .mdb.

You don't have to learn a new, even more difficult language just to make dialogs that aren't attached to a database.

Access writes it's own SQL whcih can be copied and pasted as the data source for almost anything, i.e.list and combo boxes. A database with no SQL capabilities is a waste. In the area of relations, Alpha is prehistoric.

I realize that there are limitations to dbf databases, but foxpro got around all of them (not that I'd reccomend that one, it's in it's own league of difficulty to learn.

There are many more forums (free) on the net that have have participation many-fold what Alpha's is. Abundent addins, tools and compatibility with other DBs blow alpha away. I don't doutbt that many posters here that believe that Alpaha is the easiest db on the market. Those are the ones who never learned Access.

You can navigate through your code through modules rather than hundreds user functions cluttering up the database container. Alpha's libraries are a feeble attempt to orgaize fucntions in some logical way but fails miserably compared to class modules and code modules in access.
enough

[Peter.Greulich]

Re: Alpha5 "for non-programmers". That's BS!

... enough

Thontbl,

I don't get it? If everything you say is true, why is it that you used Alpha at all? If Access is as great as you say, why did you ever bother with Alpha? I never understood people who complain about Alpha, touting an alternative db that's supposedly way better, but still hang out on this board. Something doesn't add up. If Access is it, as you say, why complain about Alpha? But I'm repeating myself.

[Thontlb]

Re: Alpha5 "for non-programmers". That's BS!

I don't use Alpha at all anymore.

I do check the boards hoping that the next version might be an actual upgrade rather than a patch. Alpha Four was a great DOS application generator. I used the windows versions (version 1 was unusable and didn't run at all on my machine) but found that I could make some fairly sophisticated, but limited applications with V4. V5 became a little more difficult but was the best upgrade except having to learn xdialog to do what other programs do with little effort. V6 & V7 were rip-offs and should have been sold as patches or really as seperatly packaged web generators.

Alpha is very limited in how it derives recordsources for everything except a wizard generated form. Nothing is easier than having a form, combo box or contol's record source be "select X from tbl where X - Y". I guess my problem is that I learned Access first and every time I tried to create an Alpha db, I would run into something that I couldn't do easily or at all with Alpha.

I no longer attempt to use Alpha even though I wasted my money on V6 & V7hoping that they would be easier. I've read the improvements in V8 and there won't be one in my future. If I wanted to create web databases, I would have looked for one to buy, possibly Alphas but I hear it's slow as the dickens. The desktop user got the rug pullded out from under them druing v5.

The bottom line is that as long as Alpha continues to claim that it is easier and more powerful than Access, (neither of which is true) someone who has a lot of experience with both ought to speak out. Alpha is one of the most difficult databases to use unless you plan on letting an Alpha wizard make a boiler-plate phonebook manager for you. The end-user should make the choice, but in my opinion Alpha is being mis-represented. Most anyone should be able to create a sophisticated db faster with Access and would only have to learn one language to boot.

All of the newbies just nod there heads up and down when the Alpha gurus claim how easy Alpha is. Then they post a million questions on the board because they can't figure out how to do anything.

Seriously though, Kudos to Sweleyn for having lost and regained the program along with a small but ferociousy dedicated user base.

I'm sure the million copies sold claim goes back to the DOS versions. With the last 4 versions being sold at 1/2 price most of the time or for money fronted out in advance for an unreleased version, I wonder about the health of the company.

[SteveHanson]

Re: Alpha5 "for non-programmers". That's BS!

There are pros and cons for each.
I've used Access and have written a huge desktop application that is being used by a company to generate Access Bills for UNE-P telephone companies that covers most of the United States. It's by no means state of the art but it does what they need and they're processing 100s of millions of Call detail records by front ending it with cobol batch processes. Every other system that I am aware of loads all the CDRs to a relational database. That's dumb. Mine runs circles around the others, literally, and is two orders of magnitude less expensive. Speed is paramount in every large application. The faster it runs, the faster you can make changes and test those changes. If you have to wait for 2 hours or 2 days (no shit) to see the results of a test, just throw in the towel.
A con for Access is that it can be really slow if the queries aren't performed correctly and if you don't do certain things (like save intermediate results in a table, etc) like break large complex queries into smaller pieces. It would be very nice if a relational database performed an analysis of a large queryset and did that for you, behind the scenes. Optimizing speed should be the responsibility of the system, not the programmer necessarily.
For processing SQL, you can't beat access and Sql Server because they have gorgeous tools for working with relational data. I have purchased Alpha V8 and hope that they give us something along those lines because it's needed.
Now I'm trying to learn how to develop a web application and I chose Alpha because it was recommended to me by my brother. There's a learning curve for sure but I like many of the approaches they've used for things like field rules, etc. Also, the component approach for web pages is pretty nifty too. But there are some things that annoy me. Little stuff like web page object positioning, a better editor that doesn't pop to the top of the source code if you don't put the curser inside the text on a line and, of course, some of the documentation tools that we don't have yet. The search sucks, for instance - or to be more exact, the search results presentation sucks. Those results should be by category (web page/ desktop, etc) and I should be able to select the category first.
And, something to help me along the learning curve - like mini courses before getting into specific subjects. For instance, I've spent an enormous amount of time wandering aimlessly in the world of html, javascript, and CGI when mastery of certain things should be required before you even get to start working with that stuff. The DOM should be mastered as well as the syntax to get at the pieces - as I'm so painfully learning. And our skill level should be monitored and developed by the Alpha development environment. That would put Alpha head and shoulders above the rest. That's a different approach but it would be a great way to do it.
A pro for alpha is that when you need responses from someone at the company... you can actually get it. They're small and can respond faster. And, the folks you talk to OWN the damn company so there's some pride there. Also, my feedback has a chance of affecting their course. With Access my opinion about anything is just a butterfly fart in a hurricane.