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Table design help needed...

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    #31
    Re: Table design help needed...

    Don,
    You are welcome. Although this example highlights a problem with the v8 browse. I'm pretty certain it's a bug. Do these four steps:

    Open the Exam Form
    Select the third Client- Beach, Andrew
    Press the Body Region Filter button and select Cervical to filter that table.
    Press the top, up-arrow icon of the scroll bar on the Clients Browse.

    The Client Browse will fill with Client, New M. This does not happen in v7. The v8 Browse has quite a few issues. You can certainly make it pretty, you just can't always trust what you're are seeing.
    Mike W
    __________________________
    "I rebel in at least small things to express to the world that I have not completely surrendered"

    Comment


      #32
      Re: Table design help needed...

      If Don reckons he's an bit of a newbie, then I am a super newbie :)

      I don't even have a working application yet, and spend a few hours every couple of days or so working on it - I might even have to start again from scratch (albeit using some forms etc I have already constructed). I have hardly asked any questions, as I do try to "work it out" from examples and the A5 forums

      What I am trying to say is a big thank you to those members for the many generous responses they give. For example, Mike Wilson: I have downloaded his Exam application and added yet again to my knowledge. I really like how he has chosen to not use an auto increment field for the normal client/customer ID field that many applications will have, but uses a calculated field starting with the first three letters of the surname.

      Comment


        #33
        Re: Table design help needed...

        Originally posted by Esio Trot View Post
        For example, Mike Wilson: I have downloaded his Exam application and added yet again to my knowledge. I really like how he has chosen to not use an auto increment field for the normal client/customer ID field that many applications will have, but uses a calculated field starting with the first three letters of the surname.
        Mike

        What do you do when the client has multiple children linked by this id and they get married/divorced and their surname changes?

        Using this type of field for finding a client is a good idea. Using it to link tables together is not.
        Al Buchholz
        Bookwood Systems, LTD
        Weekly QReportBuilder Webinars Thursday 1 pm CST

        Occam's Razor - KISS
        Normalize till it hurts - De-normalize till it works.
        Advice offered and questions asked in the spirit of learning how to fish is better than someone giving you a fish.
        When we triage a problem it is much easier to read sample systems than to read a mind.
        "Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler."
        Albert Einstein

        http://www.iadn.com/images/media/iadn_member.png

        Comment


          #34
          Re: Table design help needed...

          Suggestion would be to use an incrementing field always to link tables!!! If you find it necessary/desirable, make a second field(maybe indexed) that is calculated for the search possibilities. We do have 155 fields per table we can use. One more wont hurt.

          Dave
          Dave Mason
          [email protected]
          Skype is dave.mason46

          Comment


            #35
            Re: Table design help needed...

            Originally posted by DaveM View Post
            Suggestion would be to use an incrementing field always to link tables!!!
            Yes, the usual option is to use an auto increment for that.

            The other option is to use a value based on api_uuidcreate(). It makes a value unique on a single computer that won't be generated on another computer. It's helpful for combining data from multiple machines (and separate tables) when you don't want any overlap that 2 auto increments might have.

            Originally posted by DaveM View Post
            If you find it necessary/desirable, make a second field(maybe indexed) that is calculated for the search possibilities.
            Yes, that was one of my points.

            Originally posted by DaveM View Post
            We do have 155 fields per table we can use. One more wont hurt.
            Dave
            Where did the 155 come from? Here are the specs in the help file.

            http://support.alphasoftware.com/alp...ifications.htm
            Al Buchholz
            Bookwood Systems, LTD
            Weekly QReportBuilder Webinars Thursday 1 pm CST

            Occam's Razor - KISS
            Normalize till it hurts - De-normalize till it works.
            Advice offered and questions asked in the spirit of learning how to fish is better than someone giving you a fish.
            When we triage a problem it is much easier to read sample systems than to read a mind.
            "Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler."
            Albert Einstein

            http://www.iadn.com/images/media/iadn_member.png

            Comment


              #36
              Re: Table design help needed...

              Yes 255. I obviously mistyped. I am so glad you were there to catch it.



              Dave
              Dave Mason
              [email protected]
              Skype is dave.mason46

              Comment


                #37
                Re: Table design help needed...

                Second kudo

                Over the last few years I have enjoyed and have learned quite a bit about database design, just here on the Message board. I still have a long way to go. There was another thread the other day where the gentleman complained about there not being a lot of books about Alpha, and was giving up.

                I ended up on this thread from the Weird Browse thread.

                Anyway, wanted to let Mike know that I have always wondered and never asked how to control the X(Exit) to keep Alpha itself from closing down, and having the control to shut down Alpha through the application. Looking at his example "Exam" data base did the trick.

                Thanks

                Ed

                Comment


                  #38
                  Re: Table design help needed...

                  Originally posted by DaveM View Post
                  Yes 255. I obviously mistyped.
                  Looks like 1,023 fields per table to me.

                  Originally posted by DaveM View Post
                  I am so glad you were there to catch it.

                  Dave
                  You're kindly welcome.
                  Al Buchholz
                  Bookwood Systems, LTD
                  Weekly QReportBuilder Webinars Thursday 1 pm CST

                  Occam's Razor - KISS
                  Normalize till it hurts - De-normalize till it works.
                  Advice offered and questions asked in the spirit of learning how to fish is better than someone giving you a fish.
                  When we triage a problem it is much easier to read sample systems than to read a mind.
                  "Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler."
                  Albert Einstein

                  http://www.iadn.com/images/media/iadn_member.png

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Re: Table design help needed...

                    Originally posted by Al Buchholz View Post
                    Mike
                    What do you do when the client has multiple children linked by this id and they get married/divorced and their surname changes?
                    I believe you have the belief I was trying to make a concatenated unique ID and common ID to serve as a linking field to other individuals and also serve as a unique identifyer. NOPE. I believe a unique identifyer is just that and only that. You can use the Unique ID concatenated with a group ID to generate a second value for linkages, but that is not what this value was generated for. Just a (different) unique identifyer. It would (should) serve no purpose but be the unique ID in this instance. And what would I do if they get married etc.... nothing. ABC-12345 can be as unique as 123456789 in small populations. A Chiropractics office I would consider that.

                    It sound as if Dave and you both believe each person in the database needs two unique identifiers. One to ID the person and one to link tables. Is this what your saying?
                    Mike W
                    __________________________
                    "I rebel in at least small things to express to the world that I have not completely surrendered"

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Re: Table design help needed...

                      Al,

                      I want to see a table with 1023 fields in it.

                      Dave
                      Dave Mason
                      [email protected]
                      Skype is dave.mason46

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Re: Table design help needed...

                        Originally posted by Mike Wilson View Post
                        And what would I do if they get married etc.... nothing. ABC-12345 can be as unique as 123456789 in small populations. A Chiropractics office I would consider that.

                        It sound as if Dave and you both believe each person in the database needs two unique identifiers. One to ID the person and one to link tables. Is this what your saying?
                        What I see is this:

                        Judy Jones gets treatments as a single women. Her body records are linked via JON-12345.

                        Judy then gets married to Sam Smith and continues treatments. Her id is now SMI-12345 and new body records get this id, but the existing body records remain JON-12345.

                        With your system, the body table records with JON-12345 are now orphaned. (Or you have to change all of the values of the id in the child from JON-12345 to SMI-12345)

                        Unique is not enough( or two different uniques) to keep all of the records together. Once the linking id is chosen, it should stay constant for the life of the parent record.

                        In this case, a link on 12345 would work...

                        Or is there another way to look at this?
                        Al Buchholz
                        Bookwood Systems, LTD
                        Weekly QReportBuilder Webinars Thursday 1 pm CST

                        Occam's Razor - KISS
                        Normalize till it hurts - De-normalize till it works.
                        Advice offered and questions asked in the spirit of learning how to fish is better than someone giving you a fish.
                        When we triage a problem it is much easier to read sample systems than to read a mind.
                        "Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler."
                        Albert Einstein

                        http://www.iadn.com/images/media/iadn_member.png

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Re: Table design help needed...

                          Did a church table once. Seems we had cousins, brothers, sister, married sisters, mom, dads, sons, daughters, etc. Can't remember all the different ways we linked tables, but do remember we had set after set that looked at links differently. You could follow the patterns of a family just about as far as you wanted to. Every individual had a unique auto-incremented number for when they were entered there was a field for each parent 1-1, brothers 1-m, sisters 1-m, cousins 1-m, aunts 1-m, uncles 1-m, etc.

                          I think you get the idea.

                          Country Churches are a lot of fun.

                          Dave
                          Dave Mason
                          [email protected]
                          Skype is dave.mason46

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Re: Table design help needed...

                            Originally posted by DaveM View Post
                            Al,

                            I want to see a table with 1023 fields in it.

                            Dave
                            Dave

                            You quoted 155, then 255 as the max # of fields in a table. I merely pointed to the help file where the specs are stored and it shows 1,023. Many people quote these messages and follow them for their work. Accuracy is important, cuz the devil is in the details.....

                            Personally, I haven't made a mistake......well.... since the last one.. :D
                            Al Buchholz
                            Bookwood Systems, LTD
                            Weekly QReportBuilder Webinars Thursday 1 pm CST

                            Occam's Razor - KISS
                            Normalize till it hurts - De-normalize till it works.
                            Advice offered and questions asked in the spirit of learning how to fish is better than someone giving you a fish.
                            When we triage a problem it is much easier to read sample systems than to read a mind.
                            "Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler."
                            Albert Einstein

                            http://www.iadn.com/images/media/iadn_member.png

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Re: Table design help needed...

                              Originally posted by DaveM View Post
                              I think you get the idea.

                              Country Churches are a lot of fun.

                              Dave
                              Definitely fun.

                              Another system I worked with where linkages and names were fun, was a paternity testing lab.

                              Mother, child, potential fathers....

                              then adopted children looking for their parents..

                              child, potential mothers, potential fathers.... potential siblings for testing...
                              Al Buchholz
                              Bookwood Systems, LTD
                              Weekly QReportBuilder Webinars Thursday 1 pm CST

                              Occam's Razor - KISS
                              Normalize till it hurts - De-normalize till it works.
                              Advice offered and questions asked in the spirit of learning how to fish is better than someone giving you a fish.
                              When we triage a problem it is much easier to read sample systems than to read a mind.
                              "Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler."
                              Albert Einstein

                              http://www.iadn.com/images/media/iadn_member.png

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Re: Table design help needed...

                                Glad to see someone so perfect! LOL

                                *Quote = I made one in 1956, I errored in thinking I made the mistake.

                                The biggest problem with this is I cannot get a table past 250 fields that doesn't have problems one way or another. Either the field rules get shorted or the size begins to grow too fast. Not to say you cannot do it, but it is impractical in most instances. Actually I cnt get the table to accept the other fields.

                                I just split a table with 245 or so fields due to it not wanting to let me add the extra numeric fields I needed. It was nowhere near 19600 bytes as most were 10 n . I also never got alpha to accept 32 character for a field name(would do that anyhow though).

                                If you get over 200 per table, the field rules can go funny on you too. Well they do for me. Maybe after 35 years, I still need code training too. LOL

                                Just cause it was wrote, don't make it so. So, use your own trial and error, not mine. Your experience may be better.

                                Dave
                                Dave Mason
                                [email protected]
                                Skype is dave.mason46

                                Comment

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