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Can Desktop apps be better than Web based?

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    #31
    Re: Can Desktop apps be better than Web based?

    I don't think Alpha can charge to connect to a MySQl database, unless of course they buy out Mysql.org.
    The backend database has nothing to do with alpha.
    The only thing that Alpha can charge is on the use of their programming language to access SQL databases.
    A classic example is RealBasic.com, they just realized that they needed a SQL compatible database and bought out SQLite, their product is called RealSQL server.
    I sure hope Alpha doesn't follow the same road because that would mean low profits for them. I don't think that many people want to spend hundreds of dollars on a propietary database products when thare are many free opensource projects (MySQL,Postgre,SQLite,etc).
    In my mexican opinion Alpha is at a crossroads where it needs to decide what direction to take.
    I beleive the best approach for them would be to expand Xdialog, make forms table independent, and create many good functions to simplify connecting and managing SQL databases. Imagine guys the power of Alpha forms and report writer working together with a SQL database!!

    That could mean mucho pesos for Alpha. I would love to hear Richard Rabins from Alpha about this issue. I know he is a business visionary!
    The Mexican

    Comment


      #32
      Re: Can Desktop apps be better than Web based?

      I have sent a query to Alpha on this subject. I hope they are willing to respond. I'm curious as to how they view this scenario. Looking at their license terms for runtimes, it would "appear" that it was not designed for this type of application. That is no fault of ours & Mario's scenario seems legit only as far the license terms doesn't specifically address this type of usage. It instead appears to be geared only toward LAN apps. I've always felt runtime fees are usually exorbitant ($7500 for Ent Runtime Plus for 200 users & yet only $700 for unlimited usera on the WAS?). And yes I know this is the way most vendors price their runtimes. Still doesn't make sense. I'd rather pay more up front for the dev environment with a single unlimited runtime more reasonably priced.

      This isn't a rant against Alpha, just runtime pricing in general.

      Anyway, let's see if they're willing to clarify/comment on this issue.

      Comment


        #33
        Re: Can Desktop apps be better than Web based?

        Mario

        I agree with your points. I think Alpha already sees the light. The building blocks for this have been in the works for sometime.

        The results so far are in the A5 Enterprise version:
        1. Passive linked tables
        2. Reports based on an SQL datasource
        3. AlphaDAO Import
        4. AlphaDAO Action Scripting
        5. AlphaDAO via xBASIC

        I agree that those who see this future are as anxious as you (sigh - more?) to see this expanded. So instead of squeezing the current pie, this will exponentially expand the pie (ie opportunities) for all of us.

        Hopefully, your enthusiasm is contagious...
        Al Buchholz
        Bookwood Systems, LTD
        Weekly QReportBuilder Webinars Thursday 1 pm CST

        Occam's Razor - KISS
        Normalize till it hurts - De-normalize till it works.
        Advice offered and questions asked in the spirit of learning how to fish is better than someone giving you a fish.
        When we triage a problem it is much easier to read sample systems than to read a mind.
        "Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler."
        Albert Einstein

        http://www.iadn.com/images/media/iadn_member.png

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          #34
          Re: Can Desktop apps be better than Web based?

          My 8-years old niece (I am serious, no exaggerations) just built her own website with one of the available shareware programs and it looks pretty decent.

          If you are going to spend the money to use alpha only as a front-end software, I suggest you look into shareware first.

          You don't buy a chevy take the engine out and put a Ford because the chevy is red and you like red and because you like a Ford engine. Buy a red Ford instead. They come in red.

          I am sorry I am not seeing the magic here! this scheme is simply one way of building a website using alpha as a front end! As if, we just landed from another planet and just found out that on the planet earth they have something called the internet! and that you could have a website on a server that could be accessed by unlimited number of users! How are these unlimited users will tap into server, other than through the internet? So, what are we talking about here? My first website which I developed many years ago with yahoo, for free, had a whole lot more than you could get with alpha today:
          slide show, fade-in/out images, flip-page images, very nice animated background etc.
          So, as for using alpha just as a front end, you could get a whole lot more for free.

          This is a good discussion nonetheless but it's reminiscent of the dot com bubble when every little zit-face kid found out they could do something with the internet and sold Uncle Leo on the idea only to end up being nothing but a big fantasy!

          Comment


            #35
            Re: Can Desktop apps be better than Web based?

            G Gabriel,

            This is not really discussing a website at all. What Mario has done is to create a simple runtime app that connects to a MySQL database over the net. So basically the app runs on your machine and the datasource is hosted remotely. His thoughts are that he has a 3 user runtime and can install his runtime app on as many machines as he so desires and it won't complain about too many users because the runtime app only knows about the copy running locally. With this method, he believes that unlimited users could now access his datasource. A "virtual" unlimited runtime - so to speak.

            Comment


              #36
              Re: Can Desktop apps be better than Web based?

              create a simple runtime app that connects to a MySQL database over the net
              And where is that MYSQL?
              It's on a server somewhere. That is the "website" I was referring to.
              You are using alpha as a conduit between the users and that "website", that holds the data.
              And if you are going to offer this to "unlimited" number of user, you have no option but to connect them to that "website" through the internet, that's unless you want to buy AT&T.
              In the end, the whole thing is a disguised website.
              If that all you need alpha for, you have money to waste.

              Comment


                #37
                Re: Can Desktop apps be better than Web based?

                Mario,

                From the Alpha Five Runtime License (see documentation)

                The number of users who can use your application concurrently on any network is based on the type of Runtime that you purchased.

                Emphasis is mine. Should you do what you are saying, you are in violation of the license you received with your Runtime.

                Comment


                  #38
                  Re: Can Desktop apps be better than Web based?

                  Originally posted by G Gabriel View Post
                  And where is that MYSQL?
                  It's on a server somewhere. That is the "website" I was referring to.

                  Ok. Understood. We are just arguing semantics on this point. To most people a website is something that is hosting a browser based application. Mario's idea is just using the MySQL machine as a data repository. Something different. No webserver software required.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Re: Can Desktop apps be better than Web based?

                    I don't agree. If you write an application in say VB6 it's available to everyone and they don't have to buy anything--well, assuming they have windows. That's because it's a development package like A5 could be and was back at version 5 when they had UNLIMITED RUNTIMES. I bought that and it has saved enormous heartaches. I bought V8 just to try out--but I'm not giving up V5.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Re: Can Desktop apps be better than Web based?

                      I think Mario is really on to something here. But the problem I see with it is that there are extremely few Alpha developers capable of writing xdialogs for a remote SQL in a systematic manner that would mimic a really fullblown, "thick," dbf based adb.

                      I hope Alpha eventually gives us tools for creating xdialog screens for foreign as well as native files similar to what we have with tables. Maybe their client-server version will.
                      Cole Custom Programming - Terrell, Texas
                      972 524 8714
                      [email protected]

                      ____________________
                      "A young man who is not liberal has no heart, but an old man who is not conservative has no mind." GB Shaw

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Re: Can Desktop apps be better than Web based?

                        Dennis
                        I don't agree. If you write an application in say VB6 it's available to everyone and they don't have to buy anything--well, assuming they have windows.
                        I don't get your point!
                        a-If they don't have Windows, they must have some other OS
                        b-If they don't have Windows, how are they going to use alpha as the front software?
                        c-If they don't have Windows, why write in VB6?
                        d-He is talking about MYSQL, which works with just about any OS.
                        There is nothing wrong with what Mario is saying. If you want to use alpha just as a front software, OK, go ahead. I don't see the wisdom in that though. It's akin to buying alpha to use it as a front software for Access! Well, if you program in Access, is there any reason why you don't want to use their forms and other layouts? Do you really want to invest in two programs and learn two programs? If you like excess and/or redundency, go ahead!
                        Last edited by G Gabriel; 04-29-2007, 06:09 AM.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Re: Can Desktop apps be better than Web based?

                          I see what dennis is saying about VB6, I have it too. If I make an exe with all the data containers and code to run properly, there is nothing to prevent someone from running it. Well, that is where programmers learned to put in passwords, usersnames, etc. so only "Registered Users" could get into it. Kinda like most of us do.

                          If I wrota a whole program in vb6 and did not make an exe, it could be "borrowed" by soemone else who might make an exe. I would be out?

                          Copywrighting can be a help.

                          This is getting off the thread.

                          If we are going to let someone go to a website like was explained here, we should collect something for it and alpha should have the right to their fair share.

                          Dave
                          Dave Mason
                          [email protected]
                          Skype is dave.mason46

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Re: Can Desktop apps be better than Web based?

                            Originally posted by APFCClyde View Post
                            I have sent a query to Alpha on this subject. I hope they are willing to respond...

                            Anyway, let's see if they're willing to clarify/comment on this issue.
                            I'm sure at some point they will make an official statement. My guess is they will support and encourage unlimited remote data access.

                            Really! The 3 user Enterprise runtime is priced at $699.
                            I'm sure they want to sell as many of these as possible.

                            neil_albala
                            http://voters.com

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Re: Can Desktop apps be better than Web based?

                              Originally posted by neil_albala View Post
                              The 3 user Enterprise runtime is priced at $999. Will I be able to upgrade my 3 user, version 7 runtime, to the 3 users version 8 enterprise runtime for $699
                              I clicked on your link:

                              The regular 3-user RT is priced at $499.00
                              The upgrade to 3-user RT is priced at $399.00

                              Not sure how you got $699?
                              Peter
                              AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

                              [email protected]
                              https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


                              Comment


                                #45
                                Re: Can Desktop apps be better than Web based?

                                Originally posted by Peter.Greulich View Post

                                I clicked on your link: Not sure how you got $699?
                                This model-of-development presents a whole new market for developers and Alpha Software.
                                The $699 price, is for a new user to buy and "Enterprise" runtime license.

                                Note: Only the "Enterprise" licenses include remote SQL capability.

                                Comment

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