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Credit card info stolen...

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    Re: Credit card info stolen...

    Originally posted by mspearman View Post
    This probably has reduced my ability to use Alpha Software for desktop only for a very large project.
    ...
    If I tell him that Alpha is secure because they don't use their software for their own website, that brings up big questions. If I don't explain, that would leave them to believe that Alpha's software failed.
    What does one have to do with the other - desktop vs. web? v10 is very fast on the web side, and Alpha could write their web site using it. But like Ira says, it would be a big job pulling critical resources away from programming. According to Alpha, the data was stolen from their hosting provider. This is not a weakness is Alpha's security, but the (apparent) fault of the hosting company.
    Peter
    AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

    [email protected]
    https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


    Comment


      Re: Credit card info stolen...

      Originally posted by mspearman View Post
      This probably has reduced my ability to use Alpha Software for desktop only for a very large project. I may only be able to use it for modeling. This is huge for me.

      After 3 months, I talk the boss into letting me use this software, then his credit card gets hacked. I just found out, so I don't know what Alpha has sent him in correspondence.

      If I tell him that Alpha is secure because they don't use their software for their own website, that brings up big questions. If I don't explain, that would leave them to believe that Alpha's software failed.
      I am not really sure I understand your thinking on this. Security is not really a matter of what software you choose. It is the implementation of strong security policies and adhering to them. This is why the Payment Card Industry is constantly updating and changing their standards for compliance. Usually this is done after a breach. You can have the most secure server in the world, but have some moron use a simple username/password combo and there goes your security. Billion dollar a year companies have been breached, as well as the federal government. Just part of the world we live in and doing business these days.
      Last edited by Bill Griffin; 11-16-2009, 03:07 PM.
      Bill Griffin
      Parkell, Inc

      Comment


        Re: Credit card info stolen...

        All of this good information reminds me of why I like the method whereby the payment gateway holds the credit information, not the vendor. Like PayPal, they hold the information so I don't have to in my application. There are payment gateways that offer this and it is becoming more popular. And it isn't just a straight shot to the gateway; it makes you validate who you are (as a vendor) and no matter what the online user does in the middle of the payment cycle, PayPal 'tells' me the status behind the scene, out of the users direct control.

        Unless forced, I don't buy from online from places I don't really, really trust (I mean trust in terms of systems and security sophistication). Amazon , PayPal, Ebay, AmericanExpress -- I trust those guys. The million other smallish online vendors, I don't trust. I recently bought logo coffee mugs for my business and ignored the first two that wanted me to input my cc information, and picked the one that went through PayPal.

        This move is in transition so you find lots of outfits that require you to enter your personal information even though the cc is being taken by the payment gateway. Again, unless they are shipping to you, they don't need your information.
        Steve Wood
        See my profile on IADN

        Comment


          Re: Credit card info stolen...

          Hi Steve,

          And while we're on it, I really despise sites that ask for birth dates, mother's maiden name and other personal information they absolutely do not need.

          They should only ask for whether I meet a certain age criteria, and some personal user information (ideally of my choosing, e.g. 1st dog's name, color of mother's eyes) for security validation. Anything beyond that is dangerous.
          Regards,

          Ira J. Perlow
          Computer Systems Design


          CSDA A5 Products
          New - Free CSDA DiagInfo - v1.39, 30 Apr 2013
          CSDA Barcode Functions

          CSDA Code Utility
          CSDA Screen Capture


          Comment


            Re: Credit card info stolen...

            Originally posted by Steve Wood View Post
            All of this good information reminds me of why I like the method whereby the payment gateway holds the credit information, not the vendor. Like PayPal, they hold the information so I don't have to in my application. There are payment gateways that offer this and it is becoming more popular.
            Getting, being and staying PCI compliant can be a pretty costly and time consuming venture. Steve, you are 100% correct in your choice to let the gateway holder be the responsible party. Contrary to popular belief,this does not only apply to internet transactions. It affects everyone who does business with Credit cards. Lots of good info here.
            Bill Griffin
            Parkell, Inc

            Comment


              Re: Credit card info stolen...

              Just so everyone can compare notes...

              Chase is denying me credit on the Cabela's charge, even presenting their telephone agents with the messageboard as proof where the leak occurred, and that I am one of many.

              I now have to go down and sit with a person at the local Chase to carefully, line by line, review my records for the past few weeks, and months, as I am concerned how much has slipped through over the past month, and possibly further back. I no longer trust Chase to do the right thing...

              Then, it's on to the New York State Banking Department to file a complaint. I cannot let this slide, but what a pain in the butt.

              So, I'm not too happy with Chase, and I'm not too happy with Alpha Software right now, as this costs me more and more time and frustration. I'm too busy to play Nanny with Chase, but because a breach took place on Alpha's end, I'm taking the hit.

              I hope Alpha Software accepts PayPal, 'cause that's where the buck stops from here forward...

              Comment


                Re: Credit card info stolen...

                Chase is denying me credit on the Cabela's charge
                Odd...and quite different from my experiences with my Chase Visa.

                I called Chase's billing/customer service department regarding this breach and not only did the representative state that my card had $0 liability, but that there would be no need to cancel the card unless it got out of hand....that they would and I should just keep an "eye" on the charges and let them know if any would need to be credited....and have done this in the past with this same card when I had various unauthorized charges a few years ago and recieved credit immediately and painlessly.

                Going to call them every week for a while just to be sure (already have twice with the same response as above from 2 different reps).

                Guess maybe it all depends upon what Chase office you have to deal with. :)


                Also, why are people making it out to be solely Alpha's fault?? I don't get it....maybe their fault for having the hosting company that happened to get breached....must be the contention/reasoning.
                Mike
                __________________________________________
                It is only when we forget all our learning that we begin to know.
                It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
                Henry David Thoreau
                __________________________________________



                Comment


                  Re: Credit card info stolen...

                  This morning I checked my credit card statement, and there was a $98 credit from Cabelas. Checking back to Octobers statement, showed a $98 charge from same. I guess I need to check my statements closer. I had canceled my card two weeks ago when I got a coffee shipment from Gevalias that I did not order and a $12.95 charge. We do not drink coffee. I received a credit and got to keep the coffee. The scary part is that not only did someone have my credit card number, but also my name and address. I now assume that these two incidents may be related since they happened within a week or so of each other.

                  Comment


                    Re: Credit card info stolen...

                    Just to add to the record . . .

                    I had a $94 CABELLAS.COM charge on my card from 10/19. I cancelled the card (replacement card is on the way).

                    Comment


                      Re: Credit card info stolen...

                      Just some additional comments:
                      I had a total of two $96.00 charges to Cabela's the past two months. I addressed the issue with Chase and they reversed the charges. However I did end up having to cancel the card and have a new one issued.

                      Comment


                        Re: Credit card info stolen...

                        Gents:

                        To be clear, Chase pointed the $65 Cabela charge out to me. They credited me, then removed the credit.

                        They notified me by secure email, last night, but did not tell me I received the $65 directly from Cabela's. I guess Cabela was able to retrieve their money by canceling the gift certificates.

                        Mike, why on Earth would they keep an account open after it was breached? What, are you supposed to keep an eye on it from now on? Please consider closing the account in favor of a new card. You're too great a guy for that headache.

                        As for blaming Alpha Software, I do not. However, it is the source of the issue. It was not-a-great decision to store data on the server, and they ultimately made that choice year after year. They even entered called in orders online, as a clients credit card info was in there from a called in order in December. When I made an online order in March, I was surprised to see their card info. I had called in the December order, and the downloads were made available from my account.

                        I share some blame, too. I could have put eroneous data in there in place of the real card info. Well, assuming it would accept it, anyway.

                        I, too, suspect the host is more than likely source of the breach, but as Ira points out there are other possible reasons, though 3 out of 5 of his examples seem to point at the host, anyway. The odds are heavily in favor of the host, but Alpha Software has not clued us in as to what happened, and may never do so.

                        I still want to use PayPal when buying from Alpha Software from now on. Too much hassle to forget quickly. I love the software and team behind it, but this was a pain...

                        Thanks for your encouragement.

                        Craig

                        Comment


                          Re: Credit card info stolen...

                          Hi Craig,

                          Originally posted by CraigSchumacker View Post
                          Mike, why on Earth would they keep an account open after it was breached? What, are you supposed to keep an eye on it from now on? Please consider closing the account in favor of a new card.
                          I definitely agree here. Once a CC number has been breached, get rid of it, for a new one.

                          And for those who write applications that need security, see this thread
                          Regards,

                          Ira J. Perlow
                          Computer Systems Design


                          CSDA A5 Products
                          New - Free CSDA DiagInfo - v1.39, 30 Apr 2013
                          CSDA Barcode Functions

                          CSDA Code Utility
                          CSDA Screen Capture


                          Comment


                            Re: Credit card info stolen...

                            Originally posted by CraigSchumacker View Post
                            Just so everyone can compare notes...

                            Chase is denying me credit on the Cabela's charge, even presenting their telephone agents with the messageboard as proof where the leak occurred, and that I am one of many.

                            I now have to go down and sit with a person at the local Chase to carefully, line by line, review my records for the past few weeks, and months, as I am concerned how much has slipped through over the past month, and possibly further back. I no longer trust Chase to do the right thing...
                            ......
                            It is not up to Chase to do the right thing, they are required by Federal law to address the issue. In order to preserve your rights under US Federal law, you must notify the card issuer no later than 60 days from the date that the statement containing the charge was mailed to you. The notification should be sent registered mail to the address listed on your statement. The card issuer is then required to follow certain procedures in resolving the complaint. The above procedure may not be necessary if your Bank acknowledges the fraud and addresses it promptly. The $50 liability is NA in this case, and only applies if you lost your card and did not report it. By law You have no liability for the fraudulent use of your card data as a result of a data compromise.

                            Make sure that the charges are reported as FRAUDULENT, and insist they are processed as such. It is imperative that you card number is cancelled and replaced promptly. It is SOP to do so regardless of how small the fraud charge is. If the CSR suggests keeping the card open and "watching it", they are clueless, speak to a manager.

                            It would be interesting to know if the online fraud purchases at Cabela and others, were made using the CVV2 number on the card, it should have been required for CNP transactions. In theory the card's cvv2 should not have been compromised, as it is a major PCI violation to retain or store the cvv2 number once the transaction has been approved.

                            I follow and track organized cyber fraud, and found this thread as a result of a news article. Many of these data compromises are the result of SQL exploits, or XSS scripting. After reading the thread I thought I would pop in and offer the above advice.

                            If your email address and PW for this site is also associated with a PayPal account or other financial institution, then you should change the password immediately, including the email account if it is the same pw.


                            MGD
                            Last edited by MGD; 11-21-2009, 01:30 AM. Reason: Typo

                            Comment


                              Re: Credit card info stolen...

                              Originally posted by mspearman View Post
                              This probably has reduced my ability to use Alpha Software for desktop only for a very large project. I may only be able to use it for modeling. This is huge for me.

                              After 3 months, I talk the boss into letting me use this software, then his credit card gets hacked. I just found out, so I don't know what Alpha has sent him in correspondence.

                              If I tell him that Alpha is secure because they don't use their software for their own website, that brings up big questions. If I don't explain, that would leave them to believe that Alpha's software failed.
                              To clarify:

                              The system we use to handle orders is a system that was NOT built in Alpha Five. It was originally designed BEFORE Alpha Five also became a web development tool! Numerous highly secure web apps have been designed with Alpha Five.

                              If you are interested getting a recording of a webinar on the security framework in Alpha Five v10 please email me at [email protected]


                              Also, if you are interested getting a recording of a webinar on building secure ecommerce systems in Alpha Five v10 please email me at [email protected]

                              Thanks
                              Richard Rabins
                              Co Chairman
                              Alpha Software

                              Comment


                                Re: Credit card info stolen...

                                Originally posted by CraigSchumacker View Post
                                Just so everyone can compare notes...

                                Chase is denying me credit on the Cabela's charge, even presenting their telephone agents with the messageboard as proof where the leak occurred, and that I am one of many.
                                Did you call Cabela? Try asking them to reverse the charge if you haven't already. If they don't, file a police report and then use that to have it removed.

                                Comment

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