Latest Alpha Five Sales Model Opinions

[forskare]

Re: Latest Alpha Five Sales Model Opinions

@DaveM

Just curious if your decided solution will provide similar productivity as A5 or Access? If so I for one would like to know what it is.

Bob

While I don't know which direction Dave is going, It may be the same direction I am going which is to create grids and dialogs, etc and simply use the desktop as the venue for displaying them. I believe this is the direction Alpha is heading and my gut feeling is v11 may well be the last desktop version as we know it.

A few years ago I remember Selwyn (I thing it was him) making a statement they were exploring a way to use the tables on the desktop without using a set. Well, using grids and dialogs is the way to do that and developing an app which can be used on both the desktop and the web is a very smart idea. For one, the developer would only have to make minor changes to use the desktop on the web' two, development time is much faster and three, Alpha may be able to refocus staff to working more with grids etc than the desktop.

I could be wrong but desktop apps can only be used on the desktop whereas the grids and dialogs, etc. can be used on both. It only makes sense work where the best value for the buck is and a client will take the grids and dialog every time over the normal desktop unless they don't mind spending more money.

[DaveM]

Re: Latest Alpha Five Sales Model Opinions

Hi Ken,

I am going a lot further out than that.

I do agree that alpha is trying to move their idea of web to the desktop and phase ouit what we know as desktop. I am not sure but what they are right. I believe that Windows8 will bring some definite new challenges to the desktop and it may be a later version of windows before it all comes together. How would you like to submit your application to a group of ms people and have them approve it before it is allowed to run in windows? Oh, and pay a fee? Hope the last was not true.

I do NOT wish to purchase a was for every desktop or web app I build. I intend to have all that I have now on a web type system that can reside on a lan/wan/web. I want speed, security, beauty and solidness throughout. I also insist it has to be inexpensive and well known for sales to customers. They(platforms) are not free, but more than competitive.

I do have some abilities to code(not just xbasic) and I learn fast. The tutorials in alpha are great and really help, but there are a few others out there too.

If you want a calendar in a was app, what does it cost? How about charts? You have to pay extra or make them! That is the same with most platforms, but there is a lot of available code alredy to go that is free if you choose the correct path.

I am sorry! I typed a lot more and thought about it and realized I DO NOT want to harm anything about ALPHA. I have used it since the late 1980's. It is a great product and deserves to do well!

[forskare]

Re: Latest Alpha Five Sales Model Opinions

Hi Dave, I too have used Alpha since the late 80's. What you say is good business sense and no one can fault you for that. It's all part of software evolution and Alpha will need to evolve to keep up with other offerings. That's a big reason why I said what I did. The desktop as we know it is fading fast and using grids, dialogs, etc as a desktop replacement is the future. Again, that's my gut feeling. It's not anything which has been said to be from anyone, Alpha or non Alpha employee.

[DaveM]

Re: Latest Alpha Five Sales Model Opinions

Yes Ken,

I knew you had been around a long time.

I don't think it is all alpha deciding against current way of desktop. I think it is circumstances they can't control.

The part for me is this, the handwriting is on the wall and I prefer a different platform for my future than alph's idea of web design.

This only my humble opinion and I was wrong 2 or 3 times in the past 65 years. LOL

[kkfin]

Re: Latest Alpha Five Sales Model Opinions

The part for me is this, the handwriting is on the wall and I prefer a different platform for my future than alph's idea of web design.

I also have had these thoughts. I was learning YUI3 last year when I noticed this video. It did change totally my way of think and do web development. Now situation is this: I don't use anymore any code generating software. Just Me and Ide. Odd but I did really found again Alpha after this decision. But I don't use any grids or dialogs(login dialog I use) with Alpha.

I also have found again dbf files and found them good to use in some situations. Little example: When you search message board you very soon get impression that you can't use sets in web development ( only in reports and so on). But sets they just work great in web development when you hand code. Sets work as expected. In fact now everything in Alpha works as expected just like they say in help files. Everything is clear and simple.

You did mention Wakanda in some of your messages. I don't use angularjs( = in the video) or YUI3 anymore but I have know similar concept than in Wakanda. I use third party commercial JavaScript library as a frontend and my backend is noSQL database. Scripting language is xbasic. The good thing is that if something odd happens in Web world I can change any of these three but still continue to use two others.

[WindForce]

Re: Latest Alpha Five Sales Model Opinions

Well, i am a rather new Alpha developer. I started using this wonderful software in November 2011. Previously i used Visual Foxpro for over 25 years developing desktop apps and some xml web services. The last 15 years in Foxpro's life is due solely to the unbelievably supporting community, otherwise Microsoft would have kill it much sooner.
When looking at my future as a developer, i decided this time to not use old technologies that barely support new Windows versions, but rather to be as multi-platform and device-independent as possible.
Had a look at Iron Speed and Iceberg: as Peter stated, too rigid in their themes/templates, and cost is really prohibitive.
Had a look at Servoy - very very impressive development environment, backed by one of the biggest Foxpro gurus ever (Ken Levy), but still, i got scared when looking at the learning curve, and price is prohibitive as well.
Checked Filemaker, it took me one hour to uninstall it from my computer.
Then checked Alpha...and the rest is history :-)
Barely half a year of using the tool (i am learning it while developing some projects), and in one month i developed a nice scheduling application, very fast, works on MySql, and at the same time i have another 4 or 5 ongoing big projects in the works. When showing the new applications i am developing, i am getting the "wow" responses i didn't receive for over 10 years. I also can build working prototypes in a matter of hours, and show to my customers those working prototypes to finalize the sell.
Add to the mix the unbelievable support you get straight from the source (i.e God himself, disguised as Selwyn, jumps in whenever i have a problem or bug), and you can understand why i think i bet on the right horse this time. Also, for the first time in my life, i am not worried about what Microsoft is adding/breaking in Windows 8, i just don't care, i know the applications i develop now work with any browser and all platforms...
As for their subscription plans, i am more than happy with the current plan and prices. With the first project you get out of the door, it paid for itself 10 fold. In the contrary, i wouldn't mind paying additional subscriptions upfront ( in fact i did extend my subscription already until 2013 or 2014) and even buy additional licenses, even if not needed, just in order to support the product - i put my money where my heart is.

Jaime

[txgeorge]

Re: Latest Alpha Five Sales Model Opinions

I'm not sure if this is the appropriate place to post this, but I have a concern regarding the sales models. But before I state my concern, allow me to give some background first.
Last year, around this time, we purchased Alpha version 10.5 (11 was not out yet) to replace an antiquated flat file database program/application that is ONLY used annually to
register over 1400 individuals (via multiple laptops) in an event and tabulating and printing contest results. We took advantage of the sales models (by purchasing the developer,
unlimited runtime license for the laptops and application server plus all current and future feature packs for this version) and saved a considerable amount of $ over existing competing
software (Thank you, Alpha Software)! We decided to develop the application ourselves, but then the development was put on the back burner for reasons I do not wish to go into
at this time, but now that we can proceed, we have to reevaluate if contracting the development might not be a better idea than developing the software ourselves.

But just before Memorial Day, we were contacted by Alpha Software and encouraged to update to v11 because 10.5 was no longer going to be supported. Apparently, "Support" extends
to trouble activating the software should a problem arise, hence, no upgrade, no support! This is what I understood and what concerns me. Installing the software means entering the
license/activation codes. Should the PC (that has the developer license) or the Server (that has the server license) ever fail and we are forced to reinstall and reactivate and problems
arise in the activation process, are we left to fend for ourselves?

Unfortunately, at this time, we cannot justify the subscription plan, as generous and attractive that it is, but if we can justify the upgrade to one of the more reasonable sales models,
will doing so keep us in good terms with support?

[Ted Giles]

Re: Latest Alpha Five Sales Model Opinions

It's not as bad as you are assuming George.
No support means that there will be no more bug fixes.

If you have an e-mail stating that they will not activate a product or assist with activation issues unless you have the latest product, I would appreciate a copy of the wording as this would be outrageous.

If you have installed the Dev and Runtime on a PC, as long as you have kept a copy of the installation downloads on a CD or other backup media, you will be able to reinstall.

There are really just 2 issues with an Alpha reinstall.
1) You need to make sure that the name of the computer with the new installation is the same name as the old machine, or,
2) E-mail Alpha and ask them to delete the old name and then you can re-activate the new install.

You are allowed 2 installs for the development toolkit, (Desktop and Laptop for example) and Alpha checks the names of the PC and the license number.

[DaveM]

Re: Latest Alpha Five Sales Model Opinions

I believe what Ted said would go on back, regardless of the version. This is one super great thing about alpha.


One of the html website apps I use for scrollers, and some other stuff, gives you 30 dyas to download and then shuts you off. If you still have your install, you can still register. That is not as good as alpha!

[DaveM]

Re: Latest Alpha Five Sales Model Opinions

I just got the email with a promotion for developer, runtime, and app server for 599.00 or 99.00 a month for 6 months. It includes a image gallery(you can get them anywhere for nothing), a calendar(we have to pay for use???), a google map plug in??, and a couple other things I have no use for.

No one would like what I sent back to them, but I did not cross the line.

The real question here is, do they have any idea what I would like? or what I would pay for? I am not really mad that they sent me something, but that they have no idea of a direction.

You can use a desktop app, make some htm files within the app and get a calendar, image galleries, google maps and all kind of things. Just takes a little thinking and doing. You do not need an app server for that.

Oh Well!

[tdejournett]

Re: Latest Alpha Five Sales Model Opinions

Can someone please enlighten me on the subscription plan. With all the new features being release that are "For Subscribers Only" what happens if I develop an application and when my subscription runs out and I do not renew it, do all these features stop working as well?

Terry

[forskare]

Re: Latest Alpha Five Sales Model Opinions

Can someone please enlighten me on the subscription plan. With all the new features being release that are "For Subscribers Only" what happens if I develop an application and when my subscription runs out and I do not renew it, do all these features stop working as well? Terry

While I don't know for sure, what you buy you keep. I say that because no where have I seen anything to indicate the software expires when the subscription expires.

[DaveM]

Re: Latest Alpha Five Sales Model Opinions

I have never seen alpha take back what you paid for or intentionally make it unusable.

Now that being said, I am not sure the extras would be good in the next version of alpha unless you upgraded them. Just not sure. They may work just fine though.

Only Richard or Selwyn could honestly answer these questions you brought up.

I usually make my own extras to the need, and have had no real need for the extras. If there is an upgrade, I sometimes have to fix my own. The good side to that is, I know what I did the first time(maybe). LOL

In answer to the code it or make it from an application.

It is faster to get a working model to work from if you use a planned system. Let the software make your first run and change it with code. Is that not what we do with alpha?

I make a php(or what ever) index.php with some other program and open it with an editor and move and change stuff as I want. I do the same with alpha. I make a report from the basic that is generated by alpha and change it with code and gui.

I do not like to sit down and code all solid from scratch. At my age I forget basics occasionally.

[forskare]

Re: Latest Alpha Five Sales Model Opinions

Now that being said, I am not sure the extras would be good in the next version of alpha unless you upgraded them.

Except for DOS to Windows, Almost everything in Alpha has been backwards compatible. I highly doubt that would change.

[Tony Evans]

Re: Latest Alpha Five Sales Model Opinions

While I don't know for sure, what you buy you keep. I say that because no where have I seen anything to indicate the software expires when the subscription expires.

This is a reasonable question.
It seems almost certain that:

• Because of the design of the overall system, what has been developed for the web will continue to work as developed on any server (integrated or WAS).

It also seems likely that:

• Since the service packs are enabled by key, they will still be available beyond the life of the subscription and that,
• since the subscription features are enabled by key, they will still be available on at least the last release before the subscription lapsed.

Most of this will be moot for subscriptions that were/are sold on the basis of covering at least till the next major release, if Alpha continues their previous practice of including premium feature from earlier versions as standard features of new major versions releases.

It would be good if Alpha were to confirm or clarify on these points.