The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

[mronck]

Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

IADN has some kind of list, but sofar I have not seen any figures on what it exactly achieved for its members and given the fact that the actual customer probably does not care about the organizations his supplier would be a member of or not, but more about the actual product, the effects of this list I estimate to be very small to almost non-existent.
But there are several IADN members here. If they have sold considerable more through the IADN listing, let them step forward and tell us.

In between, I think such an idea should be worked out better before saying whether one likes it or not. And what you are aiming for should if possible not be just ONE mechanism but several at the same time increasing the relevance of the solution. So, sending traffic as 1, and then some....

[DaveM]

Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

Marcel,

Your remarks and insights are appreciated. I left it totally open for discussion as to what is needed to make it work for ALL.

I do not know what IADN has done for/with their membership. I have no figures. Further, it is none of my business. I do believe that they work closely with Alpha software and probably get a few leads that way. I do believe that if several developers(the more the stronger) get together with their advertising, write their own ads within the sites and get traffic to it, it could help all. The more that is one it and with as many ideas as we can come up with could really help all, not just one. Remember that I did not advocate anyone dropping their own site(s), just a furtherance. I sell premade solutions where some sell their skills to make solutions and a few others sell their teaching skills. I don't see why this cannot all be combined like a one stop shop. Each of us would have our own section/ad/space or whatever is needed. No one is guaranteed anything, but the more we can all advertise??? I also suggest any money generated over costs to be spent in some way to further the traffic to the site and thus to the people there. I personally have little to gain from it, but one sale generated would be a pure bonus.
If a race car driver/owner finds you as his programmer for a business solution and happens to see my race car setup app, then we both win. Think too that most race car drivers/owners have a real business they have to run to afford the racing. I would have no problem sending a potential customer to that site for a download with the app/advertising for another alpha developer to benefit from.

The word FREE is a big one on the google search. I always advertise free as in free demo or free download or free software. Others may do the same. Those people would be sent to the site for the download. Does this make sense???

By the way, I also use the serif website builder and currently on webplus x6.

[Steve Wood]

Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

Marcel,

I thought you didn't want me (IADN) to take over the conversation, but you keep bringing it up

I added them up and it comes to just under 10 business leads per month last 12 months flow through IADN to the Developers. Some of these go to specific developers, some to the "Jobs" page where any IADN Developer can go browse. Some come to me, but in all but one case I direct the prospects to another developer out of principal, plus I have the crappiest Profile. I get enough business outside of IADN. I don't keep close tabs on what happens to the prospects that come through IADN (I need to do a better job of that), so I don't know the dollar volume. I am positive some make ten or a hundred times there membership and some make nothing -- I don't generally ask. If any member writes an article for our blog, or promotes their product in or outside of IADN, their chances go way up.

Developer Members get at least three important things out of IADN:

1) an answer to "what if you get hit by a bus". Members can show they are affiliated with a couple dozen experts, all or most who could take over in an emergency. Coming in Q12013 is an official system for that where members can "identify" a couple specific other members as emergency backup. That system will let the primary developer store information about the client's application, password, source code, etc., and the client can "get at" that information under controlled circumstances. Possibly that system will include "software escrow" but that requires some legal involvement.

2) They get a nifty Developers Profile that shows off who they are, what they have done, etc.

3) They get business leads.

Here are a couple SEO tests regarding their profile:

a) take any of the IADN members names and add "software" or similar terms to it and search on Google, you will find their IADN Profile near the top even though "Alpha" was not in the search.
b) Search on "Alpha Software developer", you will find IADN near the top, depending on how agressive Alpha Software has been lately.
c) The terms "Alpha Five" fluctuates from first page, behind Alpha Software, to later in the stack depending on Alpha recent marketing.
c) Enter "custom software development" and IADN appears on page bazillion, working on that!

IADN is going to be listed on Alpha Software's website under Partners sometime soon. That is something no individual would be able to accomplish and I expect it to increase the lead count. For that project I have had to implement better tracking of prospects/projects in order to feed this back to Alpha staff.

In case anyone didn't notice, I really do not go out of my way to promote IADN, try to get you developers to pay to join. This post, which is a response, is about the most I have ever done. I encourage the free membership because it gets you on the list so I can keep you informed. But I would rather it grow slower and be built up of Developers that see the value, want to contribute back to the organization as well as profit from it.

[Steve Wood]

Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

I'd also like to mention (because it is discussed in this thread) that ANY OF YOU can sell your stuff in IADN's Store.

Those few guys that sell stuff make out the best. A TON of product has moved through IADN's Store. If you have an Alpha-related utility, white paper, or even a fully-developed desktop, web or mobile application, you can sell it on IADN's Store. If you had, for example, an Auto Shop application, it would go under a (new) Category of Automotive and the CategoryPage for Automotive would sport SEO tags designed to attract customers. And you Item page would have your own Item-specific SEO tags to do the same. The "cart" on IADN is quite sophisticated and has all of that built in.

The cart system also generates Category, Author and Item specific URL's that are posted to search engines. In case you didn't know it, unless you did something specific, your "pages" in an Ajax grid or under a tabbedUI have NO SEO WHATSOEVER. The search engines have no idea your pages exists.

In some cases the items purchased on IADN are available for download immediately via an email to the buyer. Sometimes it is more involved and the buyer AND the seller get emails alerting to the sale, and the Seller has to follow through with download or license information.

If you want the Store to NOT announce that the items are developed in Alpha Five, very easy to create a micro-site/landing page to the store that is Alpha-free and displays each product without mentioning it is developed in Alpha.

So if you want to add your stuff to the Store, drop me a line.

[DaveM]

Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

Hi Steve,

I knew a little of that stuff, but you have been working to make it all better. I applaud IADN as always.

[mronck]

Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

Marcel,

I thought you didn't want me (IADN) to take over the conversation, but you keep bringing it up

I added them up and it comes to just under 10 business leads per month last 12 months flow through IADN to the Developers. Some of these go to specific developers, some to the "Jobs" page where any IADN Developer can go browse. Some come to me, but in all but one case I direct the prospects to another developer out of principal, plus I have the crappiest Profile. I get enough business outside of IADN. I don't keep close tabs on what happens to the prospects that come through IADN (I need to do a better job of that), so I don't know the dollar volume. I am positive some make ten or a hundred times there membership and some make nothing -- I don't generally ask. If any member writes an article for our blog, or promotes their product in or outside of IADN, their chances go way up.

Developer Members get at least three important things out of IADN:

1) an answer to "what if you get hit by a bus". Members can show they are affiliated with a couple dozen experts, all or most who could take over in an emergency. Coming in Q12013 is an official system for that where members can "identify" a couple specific other members as emergency backup. That system will let the primary developer store information about the client's application, password, source code, etc., and the client can "get at" that information under controlled circumstances. Possibly that system will include "software escrow" but that requires some legal involvement.

2) They get a nifty Developers Profile that shows off who they are, what they have done, etc.

3) They get business leads.

Here are a couple SEO tests regarding their profile:

a) take any of the IADN members names and add "software" or similar terms to it and search on Google, you will find their IADN Profile near the top even though "Alpha" was not in the search.
b) Search on "Alpha Software developer", you will find IADN near the top, depending on how agressive Alpha Software has been lately.
c) The terms "Alpha Five" fluctuates from first page, behind Alpha Software, to later in the stack depending on Alpha recent marketing.
c) Enter "custom software development" and IADN appears on page bazillion, working on that!

IADN is going to be listed on Alpha Software's website under Partners sometime soon. That is something no individual would be able to accomplish and I expect it to increase the lead count. For that project I have had to implement better tracking of prospects/projects in order to feed this back to Alpha staff.

In case anyone didn't notice, I really do not go out of my way to promote IADN, try to get you developers to pay to join. This post, which is a response, is about the most I have ever done. I encourage the free membership because it gets you on the list so I can keep you informed. But I would rather it grow slower and be built up of Developers that see the value, want to contribute back to the organization as well as profit from it.

Hi Steve,

I am glad you placed this post as I am sure it is important for independent Alpha Five developers to know about this. With IADN, you were one of the first to have actually DONE something for the developers working with Alpha. IADN was however not the first organization raised for this purpose, as you might remember we also once had the Alpha Guild (of which I was a member back then). The Alpha Guild ended up going out like a night-candle: instead of everybody for themselves not knowing what to do, we now had an organization of people not knowing what to do. And that did not improve much on things. So I guess people want to know whether this is simply going to be a repetition of moves, or something completely new, with new Elan.

Understanding that not every business lead will be followed up by a sale/order: 10 business leads per month to handle by 23 developers is not bad at all. Although this is possibly a true American Party: are there ANY non-English European leads whatever ?? Probably not, but then I am assuming, a thing I don't like to do much. Call it bitterness, that's probably more to the truth of it. Not good either, but hack, it is what it is.

I don't keep close tabs on what happens to the prospects

I really do not go out of my way to promote IADN

This post, which is a response, is about the most I have ever done.

These things above however do surprise me. You don't seem to make a "vibrant activity" out of this. And I believe that IS what it actually NEEDS to become a success.
IADN is not going to become a success of its own. What is needed in my opinion is a strongly motivated and energetic person pushing the idea forward. Nobody wanting to do anything in particular was one of the reasons that Alpha Guild did not succeed.

For instance: the first important thing you mention of what people get out of IADN (so probably seen by you as the MOST important thing) is the emergency backup by a dedicated colleague. But it is not even to be found on the IADN site at the member's benefits list?? Just a detail.

It looks like IADN is a very PASSIVE organisation. One could wonder if the need is not for a far more ACTIVE organisation. The Alpha Five developer market is not exactly a hyper one and under those circumstances to lean back and wait until things come to you might not be what is needed now.

IADN also looks like a one-man-show. The Steve Wood show so to speak. Which is not all bad since you are a gifted developer as all know and your heart is with Alpha. As we have seen in numerous occasions you are putting in effort towards the good case, like in this thread. So should this HAVE TO BE a one-man-operation, you are one of the best choices I guess. Point is, I do not believe that this should BE a one-man-show with Steve doing what he can and the members paying the fee and leaning back, waiting on the orders?
It just all looks very PASSIVE to me. I strongly doubt that this is what is going to cut it in modern market situations.

However, you did a great job at least getting IADN this far from the ground and you deserve compliments and applause for that. So do not take this post as only criticism please, it is not meant that way at all. But in the light of the subject of this thread I want to explore how to come any farther in the development of our mutual businesses. You need to look at all available options then with some criticism.

[mronck]

Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

Marcel,

Your remarks and insights are appreciated. I left it totally open for discussion as to what is needed to make it work for ALL.

I do not know what IADN has done for/with their membership. I have no figures. Further, it is none of my business. I do believe that they work closely with Alpha software and probably get a few leads that way. I do believe that if several developers(the more the stronger) get together with their advertising, write their own ads within the sites and get traffic to it, it could help all. The more that is one it and with as many ideas as we can come up with could really help all, not just one. Remember that I did not advocate anyone dropping their own site(s), just a furtherance. I sell premade solutions where some sell their skills to make solutions and a few others sell their teaching skills. I don't see why this cannot all be combined like a one stop shop. Each of us would have our own section/ad/space or whatever is needed. No one is guaranteed anything, but the more we can all advertise??? I also suggest any money generated over costs to be spent in some way to further the traffic to the site and thus to the people there. I personally have little to gain from it, but one sale generated would be a pure bonus.
If a race car driver/owner finds you as his programmer for a business solution and happens to see my race car setup app, then we both win. Think too that most race car drivers/owners have a real business they have to run to afford the racing. I would have no problem sending a potential customer to that site for a download with the app/advertising for another alpha developer to benefit from.

The word FREE is a big one on the google search. I always advertise free as in free demo or free download or free software. Others may do the same. Those people would be sent to the site for the download. Does this make sense???

By the way, I also use the serif website builder and currently on webplus x6.

Hi Dave.

I do think, that the major interest of SEO is to draw traffic to your site of visitors who are interested in what you have to offer, more so then attracting the most absolute number of visitors possible, using any means possible.

I do like your idea, however I feel that it needs some more polishing in a few areas. It seems a good start though.

[cptutrecht]

Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

Marcel and all,

I think its time for action. Frankly i have more strong feelings, but i couldn't find a proper translation of the dutch 'niet lullen maar poetsen'.

I made up my mind and decided to enlist on IADN before the end of the year. Because one is associated with other A5 developers. Because my clients can see that if they want. And see that our successors have viable help available in case of an earthquake in Utrecht. AND make IADN stronger by backlinking form our own sites

I even don't mind if i don't get direct leads from it, it is not my primary goal for enlisting. I really hope it will also benefit Steve's business, he puts a lot of effort in it as far is i can judge. Only thing that is important is that he keeps to be strict impartial toward all subscribers.

I really think that joining an existing initiative is far better and more effective than keeping discussing about the ideal new one. We should collaborate, not walk a route that can lead to devision. If there is really demand for a better press for A5 developpers in Europe, we should be able to boost the number of enlisted member much over 23 :-). And AFTER that we certainly are in a position to see wether we can finetune our presence on IADN that it doesn't look as a mainly USA show.

With this action i don't say that all other suggestions in this thread are of less importance. Just start doing the obvious as a first sign of working together.

Marcel, when will you become member of IADN and provide a backlink to that site?

[mronck]

Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

Marcel, when will you become member of IADN and provide a backlink to that site?

Well Ger, I am still thinking about that one.....
"Niet lullen maar poetsen" may be a great Dutch credo, but putting all of your work in polishing the wrong thing makes the wrong thing shine, is it not? It is always good to "think before you leap" I would say. And right now that is what I am doing: thinking about it.

For you this may be new, but I have gone that route before (Alpha Guild) and back then to no avail. So I am a bit cautious now about doing it all over again especially when I can see the weak spots (as I see it) in the idea from miles far. There is nothing gained in jumping into it eyes wide shut.

Do I think IADN is a bad idea to begin with? NO.
But generally the success of such initiatives stands or falls among other things with activity. The energy that is put in it. I have doubts about that.
One of the things I have against IADN is that it seems to be a "one man show". SEEMS, because I know there is an "advisory board". But I don't know whether they actually are involved or not. I would prefer a more public approach where such an organization would not be privately held. Maybe something with a chosen board that changes every so and so year. Something like that.

However, there is much speaking in favor of IADN as well. For starters.... it is THERE.

[Peter.Greulich]

Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

Using various web site I translated "niet lullen maar poetsen":

But brushing not lullen
not dicks but brushing
not dicks but shine
do not talk bull*hit but clean

etc

So that's clear as mud.

[mronck]

Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

It roughly means: "Stop talking about it. DO something about it."

[cptutrecht]

Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

who monitors the moderator

Using various web site I translated "niet lullen maar poetsen":

But brushing not lullen
not dicks but brushing
not dicks but shine
do not talk bull*hit but clean

etc

So that's clear as mud.

[Steve Wood]

Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

Alpha Guild (referenced below) "failed" because Alpha Software cancelled it and took the leads internal for their ProServices. They did this for a POSITIVE reason that I now agree with. But IADN was formed as a reaction to the Guild being removed. It has come full circle since then and is cooperative with Alpha, part of a global solution for handling leads and providing training, and standing for excellence.

So, from reading this thread, I can do the following:

• rotate the IADN advisory board to bring in fresh ideas and move on those ideas
• plan out specific things members can do to promote themselves through IADN (actually I have done this many times, pretty hard to get anyone to do anything I suggest like writing articles, etc.)
• provide some additional services to the massive number of "free" members designed really to bring people together, but way short of what the paid/vetted "Developer" members receive.
• develop the low cost "regular member" layer with additional services like discounts on Alpha product (I can offer discount on Alpha Software items), and discounts on trainings, etc.
• continue to work towards having the Developer Symposium discussed earlier. This would be ALL developers worldwide, not just paid IADN members.
• Look for non-USA volunteers to help build the non-USA market in conjunction with IADN (this was mentioned several times below.)

But what I cannot do is dilute the business opportunities provided to paid Developer members. Those guys have "passed the test" to become a member.

I also cannot operate IADN "out of pocket". It takes money to run IADN so I need membership dues and margin on product sold through IADN. I disagree with providing an Alpha Guild-like service where all leads are just sitting there for the taking. I remember the Guild -- in addition to the very qualified developers who responded to leads, there were very unqualified "developers" responding to the same leads and painting a very poor picture of the Alpha community. There is specific criteria for IADN Developer Membership (which may not be perfect), and it is NOT open to everyone.

Edit: In addition to the developers not being vetted in the Guild, the business leads were also not vetted, most of them were from "Alpha Five Users" who basically had a few questions and no money. There were some gems, but the vast majority of the leads were not worth a real developers time.

[mronck]

Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

Steve, I think your answers are honest and straight forward. That speaks hugely to your advantage so to say.

As far as the Guild is concerned, I also remember other issues bringing the Guild down: nobody in the end simply knew HOW to improve the position of its members with absolutely no budget, and as a result of that: they didn't. But what's done is done, and history need not necessarily repeat itself.

Personally, I had no intention whatever to push the idea of now rotating the board members. How could I, since I do not even know what input those board members are giving now, and what work they have put into IADN, or what arrangements are in place. So I simply can not even comment on that being a good idea or not. You would know that yourself. Though you being able to "rotate" the board members without consulting your members is one of the issues that arise from a "one man show" and which holds dangers of its very own.
I am sure you will appreciate those concerns. It would be far better if all of those matters were dealt with through regulations voted on by the membership and dictating the What, When, etc etc of such appointments and positions.

As far as the membership fees are concerned I do not think that membership of such an organization should be "free" at all. Not for any type of member. A membership brings you benefits, but should also give you some responsibilities. Being on a mailing list from IADN is one thing, but being a "free member" does not sound well in my ears. But then again, who says my ears are healthy :-) Given your 23 Developer members x $225 membership fee, you are on (at least) a $ 5.000 annual budget. I assume that there is some sort of regulated accountability for that budget? This budget does not give you much to work with though, considering your costs for site, hosting etc.

Personally, I am slowly turning towards the idea of IADN membership. I am not there quite yet, but the answers that have been given here by Steve, and more so even the way in which he did that make me think this could be a viable way to go. Some concerns still remain, but don't all options have those?

[DaveM]

Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

I was around here in the beginning of IADN and vaguely remember some of the discussions on this board. That said, I am aware there were developers(before IADN) that took on a client only to keep them hanging and work left undone. I have never had a bad word to say about IADN because I know they have cleaned up the act where it was muddied before. Steve does run a pretty tight ship.

I do not know how many actual members are there now, but I am/was an unpaid member. I did not feel I had enough to offer IADN and didn't need the work as others did, so haven't made the next step. I have referred a few people to the site and probably will do it again. In fact, I should become a member(paid). My business background and legal(NO - I am not an attorney- had many a disagreement with them though - an managed to win most) could be a bit of a help here and there. Steve is a good business man too.

Marcel is correct that a little more pushing should go on. I can see that Steve thinks so due to getting a bit of advertising on the official alpha site. Standing still never goes anywhere. Coasting is great if it is down hill.