How many users will Alpha handle?

[paintacar]

Hello,
We are looking for suggestions. We want to use Alpha for its ease of use and ability to be easily understood. We want to create a web based app that we have high expectations of generating 50k-25k within the first 6 months ( we know sounds very high, but this has a very high potential and thought better to plan what if ) This rate of growth would be expected to continue after that to what is possible of 1 mil plus.

We have a very limited budget and cannot hire anyone to just create our idea for us

Users would be uploading many picture files.
Users would be in groups that each group could contain up to 30k users.
Each group could access the other groups contents.
Users will be writing posts for communication.
Possibly use facebook login to make easier for users who choose to login using facebook.
We would like to use MySql but could use MSSQL.
We expect to host using GoDaddy

We saw some posts on the message board that Alpha cannot handle this kind of volume and that it is intended for smaller purposes with much less users and that if possible to do this with Alpha it would require many servers and many licenses which would be very costly and not easily managed.

We have a very clear vision of how the application would work and how all of it's features should work and exactly what we want it to do, and hoped that we could create it in Alpha. For several reasons, one that Alpha is easy for us to learn and accomplish for not really being programmers and that we already own Alpha and have a good understanding of its abilities.

Would it be a bad idea to make this in Alpha and if it does get past the capacity then get help from someone experienced with Alpha to get it back on track?

Or create this in Alpha and if we do generate users to the capacity point or if it does start to take off get help to remake our app in something like VB and MSSQL, because we will already have our model of what we want and need created in Alpha?

Or just get help from the start to create it in something like VB from the start using MSSQL.

Thanks

[Steve Workings]

Re: How many users will Alpha handle?

There's really no need to re-hash what's already been discussed. Check the related threads at the bottom of this thread.

[bea2701]

Re: How many users will Alpha handle?

Hello,
We are looking for suggestions. We want to use Alpha for its ease of use and ability to be easily understood. We want to create a web based app that we have high expectations of generating 50k-25k within the first 6 months ( we know sounds very high, but this has a very high potential and thought better to plan what if ) This rate of growth would be expected to continue after that to what is possible of 1 mil plus.

We have a very limited budget and cannot hire anyone to just create our idea for us

Users would be uploading many picture files.
Users would be in groups that each group could contain up to 30k users.
Each group could access the other groups contents.
Users will be writing posts for communication.
Possibly use facebook login to make easier for users who choose to login using facebook.
We would like to use MySql but could use MSSQL.
We expect to host using GoDaddy

We saw some posts on the message board that Alpha cannot handle this kind of volume and that it is intended for smaller purposes with much less users and that if possible to do this with Alpha it would require many servers and many licenses which would be very costly and not easily managed.

We have a very clear vision of how the application would work and how all of it's features should work and exactly what we want it to do, and hoped that we could create it in Alpha. For several reasons, one that Alpha is easy for us to learn and accomplish for not really being programmers and that we already own Alpha and have a good understanding of its abilities.

Would it be a bad idea to make this in Alpha and if it does get past the capacity then get help from someone experienced with Alpha to get it back on track?

Or create this in Alpha and if we do generate users to the capacity point or if it does start to take off get help to remake our app in something like VB and MSSQL, because we will already have our model of what we want and need created in Alpha?

Or just get help from the start to create it in something like VB from the start using MSSQL.

Thanks

Here is a view from ZebraHost.net about the cost plan for hosting Alpha xxxxxxx concurrent users there are also other options check it out
http://zebrahost.net/newsite/alpha-a...lanced-systems

The issue for Facebook or Google there is no default widget at the moment so you have to look but you can use the NET assembly to create it yourself and reference to that.
There are examples in the MVC5 template Visual Studio 2013 for C#/VB what references you need to build that inside A5V12, Read with care before you start because MS changed it's provider type to Indentify Server API 2.0 [OWIN] meaning there are changes in the model in the profile structure what is a hugh benefit further these rules follow identification and token exchange "worker".

[bea2701]

Re: How many users will Alpha handle?

Here is a view from ZebraHost.net about the cost plan for hosting Alpha xxxxxxx concurrent users there are also other options check it out
http://zebrahost.net/newsite/alpha-a...lanced-systems

The issue for Facebook or Google there is no default widget at the moment so you have to look but you can use the NET assembly to create it yourself and reference to that.
There are examples in the MVC5 template Visual Studio 2013 for C#/VB what references you need to build that inside A5V12, Read with care before you start because MS changed it's provider type to Indentify Server API 2.0 [OWIN] meaning there are changes in the model in the profile structure what is a hugh benefit further these rules follow identification and token exchange "worker".

.


If your low on budget and already have AlphaSoftware then my advice is start with the prototype and see how it works reason as you say "for not really being programmers" this is the right tool. Secondly if you never worked with MS Studio 2013 C#/VB that is a learning curve or you have buy Tekerik,Infragistics or Syncfusion tools at extra cost + time.
At the time your prototype project will see the daylight and your happy with the result you can always find a developer to help you further.

[paintacar]

Re: How many users will Alpha handle?

There's really no need to re-hash what's already been discussed. Check the related threads at the bottom of this thread.

Sorry, I did look through the posts and did not see anything exactly that applies to what I am asking. I was seeking professional opinion on what route I should take not trying to put Alpha down for not handling a higher volume as it seems you are jumping at. Also some of the related threads are kinda old, perhaps Alpha has made large improvements on the server side to better address the restrictions that I read about on here. I don't know, that's why I ask, don't ask.....don't learn.....or waste a lot of time trying something that may not work.

[paintacar]

Re: How many users will Alpha handle?

Eric thanks for advice, that is what we are kind of thinking I have 10.5 and started to play around with it and MySql and MSSQL but ended up too busy at the time. Also decided that MySql was easier to use as a beginner with workbench but I know that if we end up trying to use VB to learn and get started we may have to use MSSQL correct? I recently took a class on database development to get a better understanding of database structure, which I have a different question about using categories within a database and selecting the category choices if they would work better embedded into the form choices or if the form should read them from a database. which also would then make it very easy to make additions to the categories without changing the software itself. I am checking posts on this topic.

Thanks

[Ted Giles]

Re: How many users will Alpha handle?

TOAD imho is a lot easier to use than Studio with SQL.
The Zebra prices are pretty steep so a trial with organic funding would be sensible.
30k users you say? Well the concurrency calculation will depend a lot on timezones and busy days. There is also the growth, maturity and declinee model to consider so a high takeup early on might reduce so you need the ability to renegotiate the fees quickly.

[bea2701]

Re: How many users will Alpha handle?

Eric thanks for advice, that is what we are kind of thinking I have 10.5 and started to play around with it and MySql and MSSQL but ended up too busy at the time. Also decided that MySql was easier to use as a beginner with workbench but I know that if we end up trying to use VB to learn and get started we may have to use MSSQL correct? I recently took a class on database development to get a better understanding of database structure, which I have a different question about using categories within a database and selecting the category choices if they would work better embedded into the form choices or if the form should read them from a database. which also would then make it very easy to make additions to the categories without changing the software itself. I am checking posts on this topic.

Thanks

If you have V10.5 place your requests inside that group at the A5 forum.
Keep it simple to start use tables and views in the database.
Both languages can handle different databases at the same time.
At some level there are differences.

Here u have a link to for mysql http://mikehillyer.com/articles/mana...data-in-mysql/

Cheers

[bea2701]

Re: How many users will Alpha handle?

I have no plans to participate in the subject "Can Alpha handle" again that was not the question at this stage request best way to find out is to test it and compare it with other tools on the market that is the best option and freedom of choice what will fit your goals and budget in time. You simply can't compare V10.5 5 years [2009] back with the current release V12 [2014] it's comparing apples and oranges.

Start with yourself the question :

I am a citizen-developer
I am a professional-developer

from that pick the tools that fit your shoes.

Best of luck!

[paintacar]

Re: How many users will Alpha handle?

I just meant that I have Alpha 10.5 to start working with and if it seem to be going well, the person I am working with will pick up the upgrade cost to 12. That is why I just put the question under general. we were talking about how we were going to create this idea we have and get it working without having to hire somebody right off. So I mentioned to him that I already have an older version of Alpha to get started, we went looking on the Alpha forums to try to show him some of how good the support is on here, we saw right away a post that had responses from some senior members answering another question about how many users Alpha can handle. They were all telling him that if he expects to have a high volume of users that he was dreaming and that Alpha is intended for smaller volume than that. Also that he should go right to a direct programming language that can use a different type of server, because Alpha's proprietary server cannot handle that kind of request load. I tried looking for that same post and cant seem to find it again. But after reading that we both said maybe Alpha is not the way to do this, had us pretty disappointed.

We have no idea what server requirements make a difference, but we were trying to guess what kind of load we could end up with and thought a good example of a comparative site might be something like Etsy or Craigslist type of volume. So we just decided to go right to asking on here first, but maybe something like that doesn't require as much as we think it might?

Does anyone know if sites like that could make it work using Alpha? I guess to ask it like that is a better example of what we are looking to do.

Thanks for suggestions.

[bea2701]

Re: How many users will Alpha handle?

I just meant that I have Alpha 10.5 to start working with and if it seem to be going well, the person I am working with will pick up the upgrade cost to 12. That is why I just put the question under general. we were talking about how we were going to create this idea we have and get it working without having to hire somebody right off. So I mentioned to him that I already have an older version of Alpha to get started, we went looking on the Alpha forums to try to show him some of how good the support is on here, we saw right away a post that had responses from some senior members answering another question about how many users Alpha can handle. They were all telling him that if he expects to have a high volume of users that he was dreaming and that Alpha is intended for smaller volume than that. Also that he should go right to a direct programming language that can use a different type of server, because Alpha's proprietary server cannot handle that kind of request load. I tried looking for that same post and cant seem to find it again. But after reading that we both said maybe Alpha is not the way to do this, had us pretty disappointed.

We have no idea what server requirements make a difference, but we were trying to guess what kind of load we could end up with and thought a good example of a comparative site might be something like Etsy or Craigslist type of volume. So we just decided to go right to asking on here first, but maybe something like that doesn't require as much as we think it might?

Does anyone know if sites like that could make it work using Alpha? I guess to ask it like that is a better example of what we are looking to do.

Thanks for suggestions.

You can call Alphasoftware directly and ask for references eq. they advertise there a such numbers users on websites build with Alphasoftware products.

Secondly build the a functional prototype under V10 or V12 hire a server somewhere Godaddy or Zebrahost.net, rent a loadtester on the internet and test for 30K users. With the outcome you can calculate what the cost is for your webapp.

TYI yes i remember that old post while back there removed by the owner AlphaSoftware due to the content not to relation of the message board <i think>

Hope that helps

Cheers

[paintacar]

Re: How many users will Alpha handle?

Eric,
Exactly why I posted on here to ask users if it was possible.... You said that you thought the owner ...AlphaSoftware removed the post.....my guess a company would most likely not suggest you use another product, more that they would say sure... it can do anything.... I have other people telling me to use ISD, but there again a cost I don't have in budget really, but no branding, no proprietary server, uses common coding that we can easily find help to expand. No I am not trying to combat the two companies, just don't want to have to make the project twice if my first choice product AlphaSoftware can do what I want then I would rather stick with it but why if it ultimately in the end is not the best choice and will have to end up essentially being scrapped? I have no problem fixing and tweaking something but why make yourself remake something? Everything has its own purpose and if alpha is intended for small companies that's fine, but we are looking to run a website I guess is more of what we mean, Purchased Alpha to make something for a company originally, but thought if we can use it for a higher volume website is all.

[bea2701]

Re: How many users will Alpha handle?

About the alternatives all start at a price range from $2000 to 3500 per developer per year.
Correct each companies have a sales and lic policy that how it is, combined with the freedom of choices your the buyer.
If all different these tools are out of your budget perhaps you can search at the sourceforge.net.
At last there are opensource project sponsored by Commercial companies where you can use the community edition for free, notice most things are stripped out witch you can use with a subscription plan. Take time todo your homework before you start building your app.


Cheers

[Steve Wood]

Re: How many users will Alpha handle?

You would have to deploy hundreds of servers and load balancing equipment to host 30K concurrent users. Also, building the application is the cheap part -- finding, keeping and supporting thousands of users is the expensive part. So if you do not have a budget (own money or venture) you will not get off the ground anyway. There are plenty of references on this site about how many concurrent users Alpha can support per core/server. Those numbers range from 20-100 depending on who you ask.

[bea2701]

Re: How many users will Alpha handle?

You would have to deploy hundreds of servers and load balancing equipment to host 30K concurrent users. Also, building the application is the cheap part -- finding, keeping and supporting thousands of users is the expensive part. So if you do not have a budget (own money or venture) you will not get off the ground anyway. There are plenty of references on this site about how many concurrent users Alpha can support per core/server. Those numbers range from 20-100 depending on who you ask.

Jerrod ,

With the reply from Steve most of your questions have been answered.