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Thread: The Cost of RT?

  1. #1
    "Certified" Alphaholic forskare's Avatar
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    Default The Cost of RT?

    The other thread is getting so long that I thought I'd continue it on a new one only for the purpose of loading time and finding the various resposnes quickly. This is the last post by Keith Hubert:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Msg ID: 63942
    Subject: RE: Alpha5v4.5 or Wait?
    Author: Keith Hubert
    Date: 07-14-2002 5:20 AM
    File:

    Having read this thread the concern of "Alpha who?" is very real, end users want to know that there is backup and support available beyond the salesman. Without market recognition the fear is there.
    The finest brushes and the best paints will not make us into artists. How ever Alpha will be build with ease of development, each application must be regarded as a tailor made suit to fit the customers needs of the moment. Their concern is not how easy it was to develope, if they think it was easy why should they pay a lot for it.
    We are not in the market to sell millions of applications so therefor we don't need to set up a big plant. Each Rolls Royce sold cost more than a Ford but the cost of the Ford plant cost more than Rolls.
    I know computer programs are just another working tool to help us do our jobs a liitle more effeciantly but the price of any application will need to made on the benifits the customer will gain.
    I would like to see the RT 1-5 $500, 6-20 £1000 20+ $3000 The Developers Kit could be sold for $150, This would speed up market recognition and share. I believe this would be fair to developers and their potential customers.
    Hopefully with the aid of Alpha I will be able to develope the applications I have in mind and move up the RT ladder but I know that I will not be able to sell them to the small users that we have here in the UK if the RT licence plus the developement cost are too expencive, they would rather carry on with the way they have for the last 100 years. This is no joke, some companies do not even have a computer.

    Keith Hubert
    London.

    ------------------------------------------------------------
    Hi Keith,

    "Each Rolls Royce sold cost more than a Ford but the cost of the Ford plant cost more than Rolls."

    But there are hundreds of thousands more Fords than than Rolls. If the cost of the plant is figured on the number of vehicles it turned out, the Ford plant cost less than the Rolls plant.

    In the same vein, if I create an app for someone and it's just for them, yes it will cost them more than if the app were for sale to the general public. That's why many of the commercial apps sell so cheaply, create one and then make copies.

    However, I'll also weigh in on the likehood of selling RT apps to other clients with more than 3 computers. If that is very likely, I'll take a chance and reduce the portion of what it cost me for the RT, spread it out over X # of apps.

    I'll be buying the 3-user RT and if I have a client that needs more than 3 seats, I figure in the upgrade cost, the difference between the two and then charge that as extra if it's a one time deal. If I think I can attract others with a need for more than a 3 seat RT, I reduce the fee a bit.

    I won't be charging one price for the app and then a separate price for the app. No, just one price for both. When you buy software, you don't buy the software and pay extra for RT. I've tried to give away apps (free) and told them all they had to do was to buy A5 for $79. Absolutely no takers. RT means I can distribute my app w/th RT as much as I want.

    In the other vein, many small companies who bought A5 for their own use, may find the pricing a bit stiff. I already heard from one person that they're going with another product. These are the folks that the pricing will affect and I don't like to see that happen. They, no doubt, will either stay w/v4.5 or look elsewhere.

    kenn

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    "Certified" Alphaholic Stan Mathews's Avatar
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    Default RE: The Cost of RT?

    One of the main reasons I went to the User Conference was to see if the release date for V5 would be announced and check on the pricing structure. In one conversation with Selwyn, with many others inquiring about various combinations of upgrades at the same time, I was informed that the "upgrade" price for the unlimited runtime would be "nominal".

    I'll have to check my Funk & Wagnall's for the exact definition, but $5000 less the original $699 doesn't seem to qualify as "nominal".

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    Default RE: The Cost of RT?

    My suggestion to Alpha would be to offer a gretaer variety in the RT offering and price accordingly.

    e.g.
    3-user: $300
    5-user: $500
    10-user: $1000
    25-user: $1500
    50-user: $2000
    100-user: $3000
    250-user: $3500
    1000-user: $4000
    Unlimited: $5000

    Something like that. You get the idea.

    PG

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    Default RE: The Cost of RT?

    I would like to see the RT offered free (or very minimal cost) to developers, since in marketing an application you will also be selling Alpha's RT version. A partnership where developers provide a "value added".

    I doubt I will be able to add the cost of the runtime to my application cost, hence I'll need to absorb the cost. OUCH!

    Tom

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    Default RE: The Cost of RT?

    It is true that I had many conversations about pricing of V5 at the conference, and I honestly don't remember each and every one of these conversations, but I can't imagine that I would have given the indication that one could go from V4 or V4.5 to V5 Runtime for a nominal price. And if anyone came away from a conversation with me with the belief the upgrade cost would be nominal, then that it a really unfortunate misunderstanding.

    It is also true of course that the cost of the V4.5 Runtime (whether you paid for it as a full version, or an upgrade will be rebated on the purchase of a V5 Runtime), I don't see how anyone can expect the price of going from V4 Runtime to V5 Runtime to be 'nominal'.

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    Alpha Software Employee Selwyn Rabins's Avatar
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    Default RE: The Cost of RT?

    I must be missing something here.

    How does giving away the RT to the developer provide any eventual benefit to Alpha?

    Once the developer owns a license to the RT they sell their app to their customers as many times as they want, and Alpha never participates in this revenue stream at all.

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    Default RE: The Cost of RT?

    Tom,

    You buy the RT. I think it's a silly notion to have the client buy it. You loose on that deal. Now he can buy A5 later on, change your app and bye bye Tommy! He only has to add some features to it and your had.

    RT must be included with your app. No way to get around that unless you want him to buy A5. So, package the app and RT in one sweet deal, one price. The client doesn't even need to know there's a separate program with the app you created.

    kenn

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    Default RE: The Cost of RT?

    FWIW: You may remember that in the conference last March, Ira Perlow said that he always requires his clients to buy the runtime directly from Alpha. "More money for Alpha" as he put it.

    PG

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    Default RE: The Cost of RT?

    That's true. Who's going to sell the client on the app, Ira or Alpha?

    Peter, if you designed an app for someone and you needed to get $2,500 for it and say they have 6 stations, what's it gonna take to convince them to spend another $1500 for RT? Are you not better off to spread your RT out over X number of clients so you're charging $2,995?

    Betcha Ira has changed his tune with the new pricing.

    kenn

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    Default RE: The Cost of RT?

    Ken,

    Good point. Asking the client to buy the runtime at $699 a pop is a bit different than $1500 - or more. I still think Alpha need to offer more variety in the RT packages along the lines of my suggestion above.

    Peter

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    Default RE: The Cost of RT?

    Ya all know I've supported Selwyn with ways to justify and figure the cost. For a developer, it can be done fairly easy.

    HOWEVER, it's the folks like Steve Pick (See Alpha5v4.5 or Wait thread) that will leave A5 cause they can't afford or justify the price. He's the 2nd one I know about. The other guy is history with A5. He went elsewhere. Those small businesses who are looking for a databse, may well not consider A5 because of the prices.

    I understand where Alpha's coming from when they want to price it by the number of users. But, would it be better to price it, as Peter Greulich suggested above AND include v5 with the RT? One price, that's it. When ya gotta add this and then add that, it adds up and soon it's out of the market especially for small business. I can tell you w/o a doubt, there's no way the county I work for would spend that kind of money. They'll look elsewhere or keep the old.

    kenn

  12. #12
    Steve Dentler
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    Default RE: The Cost of RT?

    I’ll tell you another thing, I don’t want to be on the board when Nehru finds out he’ll need to spend half his country’s GNP on the run-time!

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    Default RE: The Cost of RT?

    If I buy, say, a 5 user version of the runtime - try this:

    for 1 client i install it at 14 locations where they have 1 workstation (current situation is 9, but will be to 14 by the end of this month)

    i install it at 10 locations where I have 2-5 work stations (hypothetical - futuristic)

    i later install it to, (am actually working on this one,) 30 locations where they have 1 work station, and 1 with 3 work stations)

    59 installations:cost of alpha = 1 purchase of 5 user runtime + 1 purchase of full version for me

    with version 5, in this hypothetical scenario, say I have 800 invested/59=13.56 per workstation

    Last year I billed for and collected over 100,000.00 doing custom programming with Alpha as my only tool. So, say I bought Alpha myself, last year alone I made a gross profit of 99,200.00 - and this year I would have no Alpha to deduct from my overhead.

    Actually, my client also pays for Alpha. I don't use the runtime - we use full versions. I had a bad experience with the runtime where it would crash when the full wouldn't - although this was maybe 2 years ago - so I converted to full version.

    After Version 5 comes out and I can test it with the Version 5 runtime I may go back to runtime for my biggest client, as he is growing.

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    Default RE: The Cost of RT?

    No guts, no glory!!

    kenn

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    Default RE: The Cost of RT?

    Close but the 5 pack is not RT, you'll need to get the 10-user RT at $1499 and the single user is $299, $1798

    Or, buy the 5-pack $1099(Non RT and asuming it's an upgrade) and the single user $299 = $1398

    kenn

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    Default RE: The Cost of RT?

    Ken

    Thank you for picking up on my comments. The point I was trying to make was that we consider that we are all little Rolls Royce builders and we dont want to purchase a Ford plant to develope our applications. The new version will only be able to run on one machine as it will be registered to just that machine. Most of us, I beleive who run small offices/networks will now need to buy the development kit and a RT licence to cover the number of nodes. This is going to prove a very expensive upgrade when all the credit they have is from the 4.5 and the 4.5 RT. Not all of us are selling our apps to recover the RT licence and those that are can play around all day with how the cost can be split amoungst end users. I am not sugesting that a seperate price be charged for the app and the RT but because you are making a tailor made app you dont know if there are going to be other customers, unless you are established in that market. So the first customer will have to pay for the RT and IF you then sell other apps you can make a little extra profit by reselling the RT, but that is only IF. In the mean time the RT should not be priced to such an extent that present Alpha users will have to consider very hard about an upgrade, especially when they have got a system that is doing what they want at the moment. The price structure with 4 and 4.5 seems to of satisfied everybody, to jump them up because a few developers can afford to pass it on to their clients will leave a bad tast in the mouth of many Alpha users. If the price is too high then all the hard work Selwyn and crew have done will go out the window. I would pay the $300 for the Developers Kit and the extra $500 for RT 1-5 nodes but that would be my limit as a small time user and hopefully developer, anthing more than that and I think I will have to stick with my 4.5.

    Keith Hubert
    London.

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    Default RE: The Cost of RT?

    Sorry I didn't keep up with thread and didn't respond to Selwyn's comment:

    "How does giving away the RT to the developer provide any eventual benefit to Alpha?"

    Guess I didn't explain very well. If it was a one-time RT, only used by the developer in designing the application, then whenever the app was sold, RT's would be sold for each workstation. So the Developer's RT would only work in the Developer's environment. Not sure how you would ensure this, but I bet you could do it.

    Tom

  18. #18
    Irby Doyle
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    Default RE: The Cost of RT?

    I have read all the comments about the futue V5. I have used seversal versions of Alpha back thru the years. It now appears that the future of Alpha Software is at a stratigic point in the release of version 5. If their pricing is too high which is indicated by most of the persons responding, then Alpha will loose a lot of their present database customers. It appears that this is very serious and may be brewing. We have had about a 2 year lag in major upgrades.I assume Alpha 5v5 is a very good program but if Alpha Software prices V5 as planned, I can not afford it. I too am a small business that has need for special purpose desigining in my business. Alpha need to increase distribution thru more agressive recognization of the product, not slice it up in pieces and require high prices. I too have been waiting for Version 5 and still wonder it it will ever be shipped? At the projected prices I see very few new useres being added to Alpha Family. This Alpha Fourm has some very knowledgeable database users that love to help other users. Sad to say but I seen hints that several of these could be moving to other datase programs. This will be bad for current users and extremely bad for Alpha Software.

    Doyle Irby

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    Default RE: The Cost of RT?

    Keith,

    ...The new version will only be able to run on one machine as it will be registered to just that machine....

    Not so, you can put it on your machine at home/office and on your laptop.

    ...Most of us, I believe who run small offices/networks will now need to buy the development kit and a RT licence to cover the number of nodes...

    True, same as before. You can buy the 3 or 5 pack w/o RT or the 3-user RT.

    ...So the first customer will have to pay for the RT and IF you then sell other apps you can make a little extra profit by reselling the RT, but that is only IF. In the mean time the RT should not be priced to such an extent that present Alpha users will have to consider very hard about an upgrade, especially when they have got a system that is doing what they want at the moment...

    I agree! That could be a very tough sell job. I wouldn't want to try to sell a 4-10 user RT to a client for $1500 and then another $2500 for a specialized app.

    ...If the price is too high then all the hard work Selwyn and crew have done will go out the window...

    How true this is!!! I believe I'm hearing a message from some distinguished developers that they will probably stay with v4.5 rather than pay $1500 for a 10 user RT. They don't need the bells and whistles. Any bells and whistles they desire, they can write.

    Another point, "IF" the price is too high, that will do two things; 1) limit sales and 2) encourage priacy. Both are ugly and hurt not just Alpha but Alpha's customers as well.

    kenn

  20. #20
    Thomas Henkel
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    Default RE: The Cost of RT?

    Here's 2 cents worth from a large user.

    I just went to my fiscal manager and we discussed what I have been reading here in these threads. Although nobody really wants to spend upwards of $5000 for software, one must take into consideration the benefit of running a large application with many users. Our county agency would be in the dark ages if not for Alpha Software and the efforts of 4 dedicated developers. I am, by education, a systems analyst. I took 2 caseworkers and one administrative assistant who had some interest in computers and turned them into Alpha developers. All other county's in the state look to us for innovation. We have given our applications away to any that asked. Alpha Software and the applications we developed have enabled our workers to do so much more with much less effort. This translates into saved Taxpayer $$$$$. Although it is not easily measured, it is obvious.

    Our applications are in ver 1.02. The conversion to ver 5 will be great, but the rewards will far outweigh the costs. I have already begun usin xdialog instead of separate forms. This product is terrific.

    Tom Henkel
    Sr. Systems Analyst
    Bergen County (NJ) Board of Social Services

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    Default RE: The Cost of RT?

    Thomas,

    I think you are the exception. You've done a fantastic job and a lighthouse for others. However, would they spend $5000 if it were running on v4.5? Because of the job you did and the atiquatedness of the software, it's long overdue. No doubt that was the over riding factor to spend $5000, or at least a strong factor.

    Our county would not. Would our county spend $5000 to begin a new program given your scenario? Not unless it was an absolute necessity and there was no other software to do it.


    Now, if I, as a developer, had a huge client or sufficient clients, I could spread the 5k out a bit and make it bearable. I still think non developers will beg off. But....time will tell.

    kenn


    kenn

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    Default RE: The Cost of RT?

    The bottom line is, people aren't going to shell out 5K unless it works ofr them financially. My company shells out 3K a copy for Autocad licenses - it really kills me, but it's a business expense. Autocad prcing IMHO is a big ripoff. Now don't get me wrong, it is an extremely powerful and sophisticated program. Since they are the industry standard we have to go with them. But they have millions of users and they could sell Acad for $300 a copy and still make plenty of money, but human nature being what it is, they will sqeeze the max out of their customers as long as they can get away with it. At least MS sells its operating system at a reasonable price. Unfortunately, Alpha needs to recognize that they are neither Autocad (Autodesk) nor are they Microsoft. They have to sell their product what the market will bear. Alpha may feel their product is worth 5K. Tom Henkel and me might be willing to pay the price. But many many others -whom Alpha relies on to pay their bills, may not feel the same way. This same scenario unfolded back at Ver. 3 I believe. Alpha wanted to sell the runtime for the same 5K back then as it does now. After exactly the same kind of protests and howels from the user community they backed off. They seem to have some kind of a dis-connect with regard to pricing and their users. Sure they have worked hard and sweated bullets, but that doesn't mean they should alienate their user base - cutting off their nose to spite their face, as it were. Hopefully, they will read the hand writing on the virtual walls and price in a way that the large majority of users can afford.

    --My 2 cents
    PG

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    Default RE: The Cost of RT?

    Just for the record:

    I can't speak for anyone else - but this thread is very disturbing to me. The advent of the new release should be bringing hope, inspiration, and much excitement to all us "Alphies" that Alpha will likely grow and prosper as a result of the new release - which would be good for us all, not least of which is ME. But as it is, I'm frightened by all this, and extremely leary of even messing with or investing time in learning the new version, much less telling my clients about it; there would be a considerable learning curve and conversion process. And until things settle and I see what's going to happen, I'm going to wait.

    given that most of the new features make it easier for a "new" user to use Alpha, and especially the "non-programmer," then most of the new income would logically come from completely "new" users, I would keep the price of the full version at the same price it is now - 145.00. That way a lot of new people will see the results of Richard's work in promoting the product, and buy it.

    I can see having ranges for the runtime and multiuser packs. Someone running 100 workstations should pay more than someone running 1.

    But unless the product and its cost attract a big new customer base, I am at risk that Alpha could fold. I had this happen to me once with a language back in the 80's, and I'm not going to risk myself or my clients with that possibility.



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    Moderator Peter.Greulich's Avatar
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    Default RE: The Cost of RT?

    To repeat, Alpha has gone through this before. Ver. 5 is not merely a user-friendlier version of ver. 4. It dramatically and geometrically extends and expands the power of Alpha! Alpha is not going anywhere. They weathered a severe crisis a number of years ago and have been steadily improving their product and user base ever since. Alpha needs to address the pricing issue to reflect its majority customer base and future customer base. They need to assess where they are in the market and price accordingly. I wouldn’t hesitate at all on proceeding with an Alpha purchase. It is a good investment, a powerful, powerful product, developed by a team with real passion and love for their product. Remember – he who hesitates is lost! No cliché.

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    Default RE: The Cost of RT?

    There appears not to be enough emotional comments on the pricing of V5, so I'll add a few cents worth from Louisiana.

    I am the best definition of a small developer - just me. I do my Alpha work at night after school and on the weekends. I have very few clients, but those I do have are running apps written in A4V6 and they are happy with what they have. The reason I've been working on converting to A5V5 is because of the growing compatibility issue with new operating systems and DOS based programs, as well as new hardware (printers, etc.).

    I don't know what pricing structure Alpha will establish, but I hope it is something I can live with. If it isn't, I'll have a couple of choices: get out of the database development game, or find another product to work with. Frankly, I'm sick and tired of changing products every few years. I'm too damn old to keep learning new programs!!!

    If one reviews an intro economics textbook, you will find that when business is slow, you do not generate more revenue by raising prices, but rather by lowering prices! Now, I'm not suggesting that Alpha drop the price of V5 below what is already on the market, but at least leave the price the SAME as what is on the market.

    Where is more revenue going to come from in this scenario? I have one of my students working with Richard on a program to get the Alpha name out to community colleges to plant the seed that there is a better database product available than Access. When these students get their hands on A5V5 and see what is can do and how easy it is to do it, I can almost guarantee that the market share of the company will grow along with their revenue! A lot of the community college students are business people who are taking what they learn in class back to the workplace.

    I don't want to hurt anyone feelings (yeah, right), but I don't really care what the cost of the 50+ RT is because I don't have any installations with that kind of user count. I think in terms of 10 users and less. If the need for a 50+ RT ever presents itself, I would think that the cost of the RT could easily be folded into the total cost of the delivered product.

    Dave Jampole

  26. #26
    Edward F. Schulz
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    Default RE: The Cost of RT?

    What sort of comments can the group make if Alpha was to sell through a software distributor? Obviously the number of units sold would be much higher,
    but the profits on each sale would be less. I am aware that the Alpha
    programming group are sweating bullets while overtime wages have become
    enormous. (The programmers are laughing loud right now about overtime
    wages.) But seriously, how does one equate the bottom line on selling
    many copies through a distributor or fewer copies direct. In any event
    I'd like to see Alpha reap the rewards they are due for all of their
    effort,hard work and dedication toward perfection.

    efs (hope one day to be a pro at A5.5) "BOO ACCESS"

  27. #27
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    Default RE: The Cost of RT?

    I'd like to see Alpha reap the rewards they are due for all of their effort,hard work and dedication toward perfection.


    Right. But in order to do so, they need to be realistic with regard to their user base. This requires dispassionate analysis of their business situation, not biased attachment to their hard and inspired efforts.

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    Default RE: The Cost of RT?

    OK, I can't take it any more. I have to add my 2 cents. (OK, maybe it's more like 15 cents.)

    First, I'd really like to know the actual cost of the various runtime options before making a final judgement.

    Second, somebody mentioned 1500 for a 4-10 user runtime. For most small to medium sized companies a 10 user runtime will be adequate. OK, it's not cheap but don't forget about the cost of development time. Let's assume I build an application for $2500. Whether I develop it for someone else or I do it for my own company, it still takes time, facilities, etc. so consider it as $2500 regardless. Now add the $1500 runtime to get a total cost of $4000. Oops, lets add the developer's version too. I don't recall the cost but let's call it $400 for a final cost of $4400 dollars.

    Now, scenario #2: I don't like Alpha any more because they charge too much for the runtime so I decide to use Access - assumed by many to be "easy to use" meaning rapid development and, therefore, inexpensive.

    Scenario #2a: I hire an outside Access developer to build the same application. Since Access takes about twice as long for developing the same application, the cost is expected to be only $5000. (Good luck on the $5000, the cost of "concept development" with a new consultant could eat up an additional $1000 plus the cost to install the program on your network and get it up and running - figure another $500. See below.) We'll assume there is no need to actually buy any copy of Access to run this on our own system - all is provided by the developer.

    Scenario #2b: I'm developing this for my own company so I will first have to learn how to use Access. Let's see that takes about twice as long a learning to do the same thing in Alpha - which I already know how to do. Also, it takes about twice as long to actually build the app. So, let's be very, very conservative and say the cost (or time) to build the app internally only goes up 2.5 times overall. This makes the total cost $6250 plus the cost of Access itself. (Some might also want to consider the lost time on 'normal' work.) Access is probably at least $300 so we now have $6550.

    Gee! It only cost me somewhere around $1000-2000 to spite Alpha. And I haven't even considered the cost of future application changes, fixes, updates.

    Now, let's be more realistic. After doing this on my own for a few months I've come to realize that about $1000 should be added to the cost of developing a simple app for a new customer just to cover all the discussions that will be required to make sure I understand exactly how they run, or want to run, that part of their business. Then I need to add another 500 or so to get it installed. Even if they "install it themselves" I will have to add some features in the installation routines to help them get it done (more of my time!) and they will end up calling me more than once and spending time on the phone plus asking for written instructions.

    Now, consider that the simplest app 'development' I've come across was the conversion of a simple A4 database. The cost just to convert that was about $1500. Add the two together and the very simplest app will cost $3000.

    Yes, I could build an app for myself much, much cheaper because I know how to use A5 and wouldn't have to automate everything. However, any app I build for someone other than me does not require the user to know anything about A5 - temporary help is far to common and most companies won't hire them a week or two early so they can learn A5. Besides, if someone gets sick or is in an accident, it's very hard to hire someone in advance.

    This 'automate everything' policy also applied to apps that were used only inside the company I used to work for - it was difficult to get other engineers to learn any database and absolutely impossible to get management or the sales people to learn.

    What about the $5000 unlimited runtime? Again, I'd like to know if this is a real price. Even if it is, any company big enough to need that many runtimes will probably be building a sizeable application - i.e., $$$$$$. The $5000 would probably still be less than the additional cost to build the same quality application in a different database.

    I'll stick with A5 and sell it on OVERALL cost.

  29. #29
    "Certified" Alphaholic forskare's Avatar
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    Ken Nordin
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    Default RE: The Cost of RT?

    That sounds real good but it's not reality for most new users and many small busineses who use a5. As I said before, most developers can spread the cost over several apps but the non developers can't. It's crunch time for them.

    Does Alpha want to cater only to the developers? Not if their strategy for the bulk of v5 is correct. If people won't pay the price, then what? Even with the current pricing, there will be a bunch of sales, mostly single user; 3-user RT, 3-pack and some 5-pack. I doubt there will be many 10-user sales cause the price will be $1848 for a new user and $1798 for an existing user. Maybe they'll pay it. Compared to Access and Filemaker, it's probably on par. You're not going to get very many of those users to come to Alpha if the price is comparable, even with the features of v5 any more than we would want to considering the time it'll take to learn a new package.

    Perhaps I'm wrong and I sincerely hope I am. Am I jumping ship. ABSOLUTELY NOT! My order with Alpha still stands!! I'm eagerly awaiting my copy of V5!!!

    kenn

    kenn

  30. #30
    David Sander
    Guest

    Default RE: The Cost of RT?

    Tom,

    Part of the idea of the runtime is that you have an unlimited number of copies. So if you develop an app in the 3 user version, you can sell 10 or 20 copies of that to small offices. If someone has a ten user office, you can likely justify buying the upgrade and can now sell a 3 user and a ten user version of your app.

    The marketing idea is to build a bread and butter app that you can sell a number of copies of to pay the bills. Many Alpha developers tend to emphasize work on single customer applications. Can we be a little more imaginative?

    There are many products and needs out there we should be able to beat with Alpha.

    Dave

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