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Pre-release and expired subscription

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  • #61
    Re: Pre-release and expired subscription

    Unfortunately the plan seems to be to make the customers run. It is their problem in the future.
    Everybody ( customer, remember US office hours and our holidays! If your business is in different time zone and country remember this especially!) will call to Alpha one by one and explain that their server is down. Lets call next year again!

    Alphas pay or we kill your business subscription model could only work in hosted cloud environment controlled by Alpha but certainly not in a situation where servers are installed who knows were and by anyone. Now the only solution is to make customers run and fast.

    Comment


    • #62
      Re: Pre-release and expired subscription

      So how do I price this scenario?
      Real situation . Quoting for a Web and mobile app.
      VLan - servers in Europe, plants in Europe Asia USA South America.
      24/7 uptime on own managed servers.
      Data has legal requirement for accuracy.
      So companys own hosted servers in a Virtual LAN environment in 8 countries. What should I put in as the year 1 cost and the years 1 to 5 residual costs for the Alpha serviced part?
      Ted Giles
      Example Consulting - UK
      .

      sigpichttp://ec12.example-software.com//
      See our site for Alpha Support, Conversion and Upgrade.

      Comment


      • #63
        Re: Pre-release and expired subscription

        i do not have a clue why anyone needs a subscription plan, especially alpha software where the requirement is that we need web application server (WAS) to deploy the program, and the WAS is tied to the developer version.
        anyone heard that they have customers who only want older software with no hope of advancement to the current style or current features. even small things like appearance of a website gets revamped to the look and feel of the competitive sites. otherwise, people move away. if you do not have a subscription plan and sell your software for the developers, the developers will want all the new and fancy stuff all the time, they will be knocking on your door to get the newest sharpest quickest sexiest version of your software. one that does not have a new feature will feel left behind, i can give an example in my medical field. when lasers in medicine came along every hospital ran and got laser machine with ton of money, they don't want to be behind someone else. now most of those machines are collecting dust. so will developers, they want to be ahead of competition they would want newer version of the software that they can implement new features and sell for profit.

        so where does this subscription fit, in my opinion there is a shift in decision making, instead of developer making decision to upgrade the software company dictates to upgrade. the developers resent that.
        where does that tax write off fit, it doesn't. you need to make money to write the cost of developing, if the cost of developing is very high or higher than what you make, you can't write off and still pay your mortgage or your children school expense.

        the company decides on the subscription plan so they know how much they will make ahead of time lasting to the end of the term as opposed to perpetual license where they do not know to plan they have to sell every day to recover the cost of developing. one is planning ahead the other is catching up.

        so finally, is subscription good for alpha, only time will tell. but in the meantime this plan has changed many devoted loyal followers of alpha to complain or quit or at least say they will move on to something else ( while still saying alpha is a great product).
        is that worth the effort?
        Last edited by GGandhi; 09-02-2016, 06:03 AM.
        thanks for reading

        gandhi

        version 11 3381 - 4096
        mysql backend
        http://www.alphawebprogramming.blogspot.com
        ggandhi344@gmail.com
        Skype:ggandhi344@gmail.com
        1 914 924 5171

        Comment


        • #64
          Re: Pre-release and expired subscription

          Allow me to be clear. The yearly subscription expense is not really the problem for me. As a developer and a salesperson, I'd like to get a good deal - and Alpha can be expensive, but the cost is the cost.

          And I agree that people jump through hoops often enough to get things done.

          But Alpha's office are closed on the weekend. If your subscription expires on a Saturday and your client is a 24/7 vendor, there simply may be nothing to be done until Monday morning. I would certainly email Selwyn and anyone else who's email address I have, but that's not a solution.

          The solution is to have the online tools available to fix any issue, whatever it be. And it doesn't matter to me how hard it is to get that accomplished - you can't shut someone down, for any reason, if you haven't first provided the recourse that will allow them to fix it promptly at any time or day, and Alpha has not done that.

          To me, that is the biggest issue here.

          Comment


          • #65
            Re: Pre-release and expired subscription

            Ted,

            If you have a custom setup, with multiple servers like that - you should call Alpha and talk to them directly.

            They are still willing to make deals, especially for multi-year, multi-server apps. Get a real quote from them and you'll be good to go.

            Yes, there is a yearly cost - but it's manageable and the pricing model is not brain surgery.

            Comment


            • #66
              Re: Pre-release and expired subscription

              if there is no subscription no need to shutdown the servers.
              quickbooks comes out with new version every sept-october, i have been getting them for the past 30 years. the price went up from next to nothing to about $500.00 now. if i choose to stop the auto payment i will have last version with no new tax tables. that is it. if alpha sells their software to you without shutting your server you won't complain what it is called.
              the concept of subscription, with the added necessary shutdown if not current, is the problem not the cost which could be high since it is all relative to the income.
              even in automated renewal system everyone is dependent on the servers, their servers. if they go down while you are trying to renew still the issue exists.
              thanks for reading

              gandhi

              version 11 3381 - 4096
              mysql backend
              http://www.alphawebprogramming.blogspot.com
              ggandhi344@gmail.com
              Skype:ggandhi344@gmail.com
              1 914 924 5171

              Comment


              • #67
                Re: Pre-release and expired subscription

                If I'm going to develop a web app for a new client I understand that the subscription needs to be maintained in order for that client's app server to remain running. After the project is finished does the app server license then transfer to that client?? Or do I need to work that out myself? ..meaning the client pays me the subscription and I then pay Alpha? I wouldn't want the liability or responsibility of having to maintain the subscription for that client indefinitely.

                Secondly, it would be a bit odd, from the client's perspective, when I'm done with their app that they now need to pay some other company to keep it running (in the case where the app server license transfers to them).

                Lastly, say five years from now I get tired of developing or I'm hit by a truck and die all of the client's subscriptions I've been maintaining over the years are in jeopardy (if the license couldn't or wasn't transferred to them).

                This subscription model is a burden that changes the way I will (or will not) be using Alpha in the future.
                Mike Brown - Contact Me
                Programmatic Technologies, LLC
                Programmatic-Technologies.com
                Independent Developer & Consultant

                Comment


                • #68
                  Re: Pre-release and expired subscription

                  In case anyone here wants to talk through licensing cost (e.g, total cost of operation), we have an open-discussion forum to day (and every Friday). See here: http://www.alphasoftware.com/alphafo...409#post716409
                  Steve Wood
                  Join the ALPHA DEVELOPERS NETWORK
                  There is no Cloud. It's just someone else's computer.
                  Web - Mobile - Hosting - Products - Frameworks - Developer Resources
                  AlphaToGo | IADN (100% Alpha Anywhere Websites)

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: Pre-release and expired subscription

                    No one knows what fate may bring. Does the licensing agreement state that in the event that Alpha fails as a business, users will still have access to the software?
                    @Larry. My client is MY client and I do not want to have to negotiate with Alpha. The client will require an escrow arrangement with a subscription deal.
                    Ted Giles
                    Example Consulting - UK
                    .

                    sigpichttp://ec12.example-software.com//
                    See our site for Alpha Support, Conversion and Upgrade.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: Pre-release and expired subscription

                      expecting to pay for the developer license as a subscription or something similar to it, is something people can put up with it, but expecting to pay indefinitely to deploy it via alpha web server is silly, if you ask me.
                      you pay for isp to show the content to the public, then you pay for WAS before your company data is available to the isp, don't you think this is too much? you think you can convincingly sell this, even if you make 200k per year using alpha?
                      (make sure you tell them that you can walk away but they cannot, they still have to pay alpha to keep going if they want to)
                      not good.
                      thanks for reading

                      gandhi

                      version 11 3381 - 4096
                      mysql backend
                      http://www.alphawebprogramming.blogspot.com
                      ggandhi344@gmail.com
                      Skype:ggandhi344@gmail.com
                      1 914 924 5171

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Re: Pre-release and expired subscription

                        That is the real question, can we sell this. We have to tell our prospective customers about cost. Most small customers only ask about project cost, not ongoing operational cost. But we have to tell them the the full story, especially now that there is a mandatory ongoing cost to Alpha. I don't know if legally we have to tell them, but honestly that is a disingenuous thing for me even to suggest.

                        As others have said, I have no problem with Alpha taking revenue, but I worry that this is a hard(er) sell. If I cannot sell this idea to my current customer profile, I need to change who I sell to - and can I do that? That is the most important question (for me/us developers). Am I able to sell as effectively to enterprise-type companies (who frankly expect an ongoing operation cost) or am I not equipped to sell to that crowd? If I cannot, then I cannot sell Alpha as a solution. If I look at it as a positive, I can only go after companies who understand ongoing operation cost, have revenue and cash in hand. I like cash. I'd also like to tell a prospective client that their ongoing cost includes paying me $1000/month Support. Maybe it will be easier to do that if they also are the type of company that is willing to pay for Alpha for the life of the project - I don't know yet.

                        Said differently, I don't care much what Alpha gets (other than the fact that I like them), I care that I can continue to earn an income. If I have to change my tactics a bit to do that, I will. I also care that my peer developers can continue to do that - this is what IADN is all about.
                        Steve Wood
                        Join the ALPHA DEVELOPERS NETWORK
                        There is no Cloud. It's just someone else's computer.
                        Web - Mobile - Hosting - Products - Frameworks - Developer Resources
                        AlphaToGo | IADN (100% Alpha Anywhere Websites)

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: Pre-release and expired subscription

                          In a previous post I stated that I have no problem whatsoever with Alpha charging a subscription. To clarify, i meant charging a subscription to the developer - NOT to the client or customer - i.e. the end-user. As Steve suggests, that's a HARD SELL. And in most cases, it's probably a non-starter.
                          Peter
                          AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

                          Peter@AlphaBaseSolutions.com
                          https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Re: Pre-release and expired subscription

                            I don't know if legally we have to tell them
                            superficially, no you don't have to tell them. but if your client/customer takes legal action against you then the clause that you are aware, you had privy to that information and you did not divulge it to the customer, even though innocent error you may call it, the jury won't see that way. even irs has taken a stance innocent spouse rule, to charge only one of the couple( you will remember famous new York real estate person).
                            you won't look good.
                            if you no longer alive your estate will be responsible and the only reason you go to work all these years may be in jeopardy.
                            not trying to scare any one but thinking aloud.
                            thanks for reading

                            gandhi

                            version 11 3381 - 4096
                            mysql backend
                            http://www.alphawebprogramming.blogspot.com
                            ggandhi344@gmail.com
                            Skype:ggandhi344@gmail.com
                            1 914 924 5171

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Re: Pre-release and expired subscription

                              There are benefits to having a well thought out subscription model. I've sold this concept many times.
                              It's how you sell it that wins customers. The AS big stick will never work. This is the second time in 3 years we have had this discussion. They need a good marketing person on board not knee jerk reactionaries
                              Ted Giles
                              Example Consulting - UK
                              .

                              sigpichttp://ec12.example-software.com//
                              See our site for Alpha Support, Conversion and Upgrade.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Re: Pre-release and expired subscription

                                Ok, so here's a thought. Alpha Anywhere should come with or as an add on sale a limited lifetime license that works up to the current version AND a subscription license for the developer. This would end all discussion on the subject, and perhaps they already do.
                                This would give your Johnny pipe dreams developer the option to become a great salesman and allow him to sell the upgrade on the basis of the NEW features, including installation and future development. Without such a system in place, it leaves him on an unlevel playground with a developer who CAN write this code from the bottom up including security - WITH IT it gives him a huge advantage, and I dare say it might even bring in those developers who can do this from scratch due to the RAPID application development that Alpha already offers.
                                I also as I said think it should be a part of the existing offering, what a boost for Alpha in terms of taking care of it's existing base and allowing many of you to SELL the Alpha Software system knowing full well, that when they make new features available such as tablet optimized forms, etc - developers can revisit old clients and offer them whole NEW range of features - and as I said that would give all of us (and Alpha) one incredible advantage !!!

                                What do you guys think of that proposal? If I were in charge this is what I would set out to do immediately.
                                NWCOPRO: Nuisance Wildlife Control Software My Application: http://www.nwcopro.com "Without forgetting, we would have no memory at all...now what was I saying?"

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