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Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conundrum

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    #76
    Re: Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conund

    AND I, too, keep wishing I could get an update that fixes some bug I've found that does NOT introduce more bugs due to all the added Alpha features. I can't ever seem to sit still with one version that is bug free. I've been sticking with the last official release because stays pretty stable for me. It does have a couple of things I need that have since been 'fixed' by Alpha, but I tried the other day to use the latest pre release that should have those fixes, and immediately encountered a big problem bug and reverted back to last official release. Always feels like a race...
    Carol King
    Developer of Custom Homebuilders' Solutions (CHS)
    http://www.CHSBuilderSoftware.com

    Comment


      #77
      Re: Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conund

      Originally posted by peteconway View Post
      Are we on the same message board? - yes, point being - Steve a conductor alone does not make an orchestra, there are many other voices no longer heard on the board, that once gave all. That's all I'm saying.
      People are supposed to recycle, leave, come back, arrive as a newbie, arrive as an expert in some other field or platform, etc. It is natural for some percent to move on or retire, and for others to replace them. Heck I know of one person who "left forever" but mysteriously reappeared. All if the guys I hang out with here and off line still give it their all, not always in exactly the same manner, but no less intense. I still have my free Friday webinar ( four years running now) and that is well attended and enthusiastic.
      Last edited by Steve Wood; 02-25-2012, 03:57 PM.
      Steve Wood
      See my profile on IADN

      Comment


        #78
        Re: Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conund

        a conductor alone does not make an orchestra -------------> time for fun lets play some music

        Comment


          #79
          Re: Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conund

          I disagree with you Pete. I know one user who found a bug last week, started a discussion about it including wondering whether it was a bug, and a couple days later the pre-release version of A5 had this fixed. While this is circumstantial evidence, it appears pretty clear to me that Alpha is definitely watching and monitoring this board and all posters here, always with an eye to perfecting their very complex product.
          Steve (Workings) Tell me you are not suggesting people move from the official release in a live environment to an experimental work in progress pre-release just to get the bug fix, I downloaded the current pre-release to check it and it totally broke my app, so I hope that's not what you think is problem solved, Carol - I could not agree with you more, and Steve (Wood) you are great with what you do with the IADN - but why should you have to do it is another question. Using the pre-release in a live environment is the equivalent of trying to bank "fools-gold".
          Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
          Albert Einstein, (attributed)
          US (German-born) physicist (1879 - 1955)

          Comment


            #80
            Re: Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conund

            Let me help for people that can't read or understand This is not an official patch, so you should not deploy this update to a production environment.

            Alpha V11 has a nice new feature TexttoSpeech in the ::Net functions
            with a few lines of the famous Xbasic simple call this routine in the component event ServerSide

            function OnGridExecute as v (e as p)
            call <IsProductionORPrelease>

            the rest is your local error trapping

            hope this helps

            Comment


              #81
              Re: Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conund

              YES Eric, that is very easy to understand - but very difficult to resist if you need a solution to something that does not work. It's like telling people "don't smoke, it will kill you" - we know how well that works. People do clutch at straws in despair, it's a fact.
              Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
              Albert Einstein, (attributed)
              US (German-born) physicist (1879 - 1955)

              Comment


                #82
                Re: Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conund

                Pete your a very respected A5 developer with good solid track and you helped a lot of people *and still do thank you!* but I don't understand the frustation in your posts it sounds like a personal fight against Alpha team (product), I hope it's not. There a lot of A5 developers with different skills from newbies to > 30 years of IT experience like the Steve brothers and many more. Pre releases have a purpose for skilled A5 developers UNLESS Selwyn send you a private email how to use the fix for that < your apps bug >. Visit the LightSwitch 2010 forum from MS compare all the bugs and replies from MS development team and Alpha I hope you see the diff.
                Last edited by bea2701; 02-25-2012, 08:17 PM.

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                  #83
                  Re: Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conund

                  Yep, Eric, is very evident that Alpha is doing everything they can to make their product the best it can be, and respond quickly to their users. Again, I can't even imagine what it must be like to develop a program for developers. AND I can't imagine having the same level of interaction and response from Microsoft at all. I am very happy with my Alpha decision.... despite wishing I could get a fix without new bugs being added. (whoa... this is sounding very close to a drug addiction :)
                  Carol King
                  Developer of Custom Homebuilders' Solutions (CHS)
                  http://www.CHSBuilderSoftware.com

                  Comment


                    #84
                    Re: Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conund

                    Pete@: In comments from anyone you react rather violently example:
                    "but why should you have to do it is another question" that is not neatly opposite Steve Wood. Where did he deserve such a response to this reaction eq I do not understand but does not sound fresh. If you want to change or improve things work together for a dialogue, find ways to communicate not reproachful atmosphere. eventually you will no longer credible and you lose. Every story has a true form only in this way you will be able to improve things, not just criticizing other words after xx post I have no read a concrete proposal for a dialogue with Alpha team.

                    Comment


                      #85
                      Re: Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conund

                      Carol,

                      Now that I continue to think of the proposal sounds of Steve W. well I join the meeting Friday that delivers much more on the bulletin board neagtieve mob. There is a time zone difference but I do my best to attend you can join Carol? that applies to everyone who has a intersesse postieve solution for questions and answers. With a little luck will Selwyn react in time and then there is THE starting point for a dialogue. The goal is that we learn to understand how it lives on both sides, because there is a common interest that is called business, they have no bread without us and vice versa, honest and sincere business there is all about.

                      Comment


                        #86
                        Re: Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conund

                        Originally posted by SNusa View Post
                        "Bugs create unnecessary frustration."

                        Replying to you question, my response is an unequivocal "BOTH".... It all comes down to one unsurprising fact: Software companies perpetually get caught up in trying to deliver "the latest and greatest." (at the expense of QC) In doing so, things are seldom really ready to ship when they do. The bigger the product, the larger the issues. Especially when you are delivering a program designed to develop other programs. (OMG, what a feat in itself!) If you look through this message-board, you will find hundreds of examples where trial and error gets around an "a5 design issue / flaw." Frequently, these bugs go un-noticed as a result of "high level users" either 1.) not reporting them, or 2.) not using the a5 programs' "built in wizardry." (These advanced users/developers can simply code much like the would within MS Dev. Studio, and with their experience, they know enough to "punch out a quick workaround" after quickly diagnosing the issues.) ~ Hence, from a productivity standpoint: The necessity to know X-basic (for a5) is a fundamental IMHO..... In the end, there is a "steep and slippery slope" one must now climb to "master this wizardry" in addition to learning the basics." ~ And if you rely on the "wizardry" you still need to know the "what and why's" of it all.

                        I don't mess with Dev.Studio, but my friends do. They imply it's a very solid product with few surprises... Why? Because it doesn't have all this "wizardry" built in..... (Just another case of "the turtle versus the hare" me thinks).... As I've said many times: Even after committing literally hundreds of hours to watching training videos, studying & learning a5..... I personally still give a5 two thumbs up with regards to "what it is capable of being & doing." ~ It (a5) just doesn't always deliver exactly what is expected! You have to wait 1/2 of a product cycle to get that feature..... (my opinion)
                        I could not have said this any better. How sweet it would be to be able to produce a "sorta complex app" without having to find ways to work around the wizardry that doesn't work. Yes, Most of it does but there are many times when trying to use something, you encounter the dreaded error message and there is no way to get around it unless your name is Steve Workings, Steve Wood or the like caliber.

                        kenn
                        TYVM :) kenn

                        Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.

                        Comment


                          #87
                          Re: Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conund

                          Hi Eric,

                          I did not take Pete's comments the way you did. As a matter of fact, one could say your comment, "Let me help for people that can't read or understand This is not an official patch, so you should not deploy this update to a production environment" could be interpreted in the same way you interpreted Pete's comment.

                          It is good for Alpha to read this type of thread. They need to know the frustration levels of their customers and why they are frustrated. Hopefully, they will take the message to heart and strive to improve their product. By releasing new stuff can be an improvement, so is fixing the glitches in the new stuff which to me is much more important. At this point, I am not able to build a complex app with v11 and distribute it. I don't have the time to deal with the tech support by trying to figure out fixes. If I worked at it full time and was in the same league as Steve W and Steve W, that would be a different story. Believe me, because of these issues, there have been many times when I would like to try another product but I think of why I switched form Access to A5 and... well despite my frustration with the issues, A5 is by far, the best out there.

                          Alpha has been extremely good about providing patches and they will provide a patch if a developer's customer/s are depending on it. That has happened time and time again. OTOH, MS has an enormous amount of time between patches which is probably due to making sure everything works as advertised to the best of their ability. However, I also suspect, the vast majority of A5 developers would rather see the new releases, etc. and deal with the frustration. I would. That said, I still would like what appears to be small issues, cleaned up so I can depend on Alpha operating with a 9 or 10. Yes, there are times when I've expressed my frustration but there also have been numerous times when I've defended Alpha quite vigorously.

                          kenn
                          TYVM :) kenn

                          Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.

                          Comment


                            #88
                            Re: Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conund

                            A little different perspective. I am still new to v11. But I have lots of experience in managing IT in large companies. We would NEVER install a new version of Microsoft windows until AT LEAST SP1 came out. And once we decided to, we would do lots of testing to make sure we didn't break things. Same with new releases of commercial software that the company relied on. You know the old story about pioneers and the arrows..... We you deal with production environments, it makes sense to be conservative. and that to me means holding back on new software releases until someone else gets a lot of the bugs out. And once we think it is ready, we do significant testing. If there are significant, deal-killing bugs, we do not install in production.

                            I would be interested to know if the fixes that are available for A5 are available in a version that only fixes bugs and does not contain new features. I thought that may be the case from reading the first part of this thread, but now I am not sure.

                            YMMV

                            Bob
                            Bob Alston
                            -------------------------------------------------------------------
                            http://webpages.charter.net/bobalston/bob1.htm
                            Alpha five v11 Tips

                            Comment


                              #89
                              Re: Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conund

                              Hi Bob,

                              I'm not the expert on this but I believe v10 was very stable as I believe v11 is, to a point. With all the new stuff in v11 plus the release of the feature pacts, v11 hasn't been around long enough to work out all the bugs. I hope v12 is another 2 or so years away because v1 needs to get settled down. That said, when I visit various web sites and see the changes which are being made, Alpha no doubt feels that in order to be competitive,they must have the ability to create similar features. So, the dog keeps chasing it's tail. Round and round he goes, when he stops, nobody knows.

                              I remember the story of 'Little Black Sambo' who surrendered is colorful clothing and other things to four hungry tigers so they wouldn't eat him. Their vanity, thinking one was better than the other, caused them to chase each other around a tree. They kept going faster and faster until they melted into butter. Sambo got his clothes back and the butter was used for pancakes. I could illustrate several likenesses to Alpha but I'll let you figure that out. However, one could say a moral of the story (I'm sure there's others) is to slow down a bit to catch your breath by making sure the small stuff works. If you don't, you will eventually find yourself in a "meltdown" and someone else will take your place, using your product or parts of it, to start their own merry-go-round.

                              Now that's something to think about. Not only does it apply to Alpha, but it applies to all of us as individuals as well. Life is a merry-go-round. Sometimes we must slow it down to smell the roses.

                              kenn
                              TYVM :) kenn

                              Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.

                              Comment


                                #90
                                Re: Candidate next update is now available VS Alpha Five Version 11 Updates = conund

                                Originally posted by bobalston View Post
                                A little different perspective. I am still new to v11. But I have lots of experience in managing IT in large companies. We would NEVER install a new version of Microsoft windows until AT LEAST SP1 came out. And once we decided to, we would do lots of testing to make sure we didn't break things. Same with new releases of commercial software that the company relied on. You know the old story about pioneers and the arrows..... We you deal with production environments, it makes sense to be conservative. and that to me means holding back on new software releases until someone else gets a lot of the bugs out. And once we think it is ready, we do significant testing. If there are significant, deal-killing bugs, we do not install in production.

                                I would be interested to know if the fixes that are available for A5 are available in a version that only fixes bugs and does not contain new features. I thought that may be the case from reading the first part of this thread, but now I am not sure.

                                YMMV

                                Bob
                                Reply to Paragraph #1 = "Wisdom through experience."
                                Reply to Paragraph #2 = I don't believe this is the case.... I think there is only one build. (Always kind of a WIP as new features are woven in, while existing bugs are concurrently addressed.) And when a new major version forks, both the current, and the next version are updated / maintained for a period of time until the new major version (v10, v10.5, v11,v12 etc.) release nears. (At which time, all patching of the old version ceases, which I can understand due to resources, but feel works against the product as a whole.) ~ "Risky business model if you ask me." ~ Definitely doesn't help to build credibility mainstream. (I wouldn't think.) ~ And I'm sure that credibility is one of the largest concerns / threats that any software development based company must perpetually concern themselves with......

                                ~Imagine if MS did this with Windows, or even IE? We'd all be running OSX, OS/2 "WARP", or GOD ("Google Online Desktop?") by now, instead!
                                Last edited by SNusa; 02-26-2012, 12:44 AM.
                                Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
                                It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
                                RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

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