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Frustration and more frustration trying to install a V11 desktop app on another PC...

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    #76
    Re: Frustration and more frustration trying to install a V11 desktop app on another P

    It seems like you might be referring to a 10.5 app and that you are going to install .net for it in the future?? Is this true?

    as far as I know, you don't need .net for a v10.5 app unless you are using a .net component that requires it.
    You are correct! I will purchase v11 and runtime in the future and I will not have to reinvent the wheel to install it. The other part is to help people here(along with others) who have v11 make sure they can make it work now.

    I have mostly been installing .net for my apps since 10.5 came out with it in the updates.
    Dave Mason
    [email protected]
    Skype is dave.mason46

    Comment


      #77
      Re: Frustration and more frustration trying to install a V11 desktop app on another P

      Me Too,

      This thread has given me a far better understanding of the implications involved when distributing your V11 app, not manually but on a CD or as a download

      1. V11 will not run unless your client have Microsoft .net4 pre installed
      2. They cannot load Microsoft .net4 on to an XP OS unless they have Service Pack 3 version of XP
      3. V11 Runtime comes with the Microsoft DotnetFx40_Full_setup.exe and V11 Runtime comes with DotnetFx40_Full_setup_x86_x64.exe included within the runtime folder (Not sure of the difference between the two, I use the latter)
      4. If you manually run the V11Runtime .exe it will prompt for Microsoft .net4 and automatically install C++ regardless of its existance.
      5. If you create an install package with V11 full developer version the install does not detect Microsoft .net4 you must guide the user to run the V11runtime.exe manually
      6. If you use a third party installer it can be set up to detect if Microsoft .net4 exists and install if you include the Microsoft DotnetFx40_Full_setup.exe
      7. I have used Astrum successfully for about 5 years now but I still cannot get the install with the dotnet4 stuff user prompts as I would like in the scenario of distributing the apps on a CD or downloading my applications from the Web without confusing an inexperienced PC user.
      8. Because of item 7 I still prefer my method of install loading two flavours of Runtime both V10 and V11 then on first use with the V10 engine guide the user through setup using my own custom Alpha prompts created on a form based on the V10 engine then overwriting their short cut so that the next time they open the app it is using the V11 engine and the V10 engine is then redundant.

      Would welcome any corrections to the above content.

      Michael
      www.instantnurserymanager.co.uk
      Last edited by Michael Humby; 12-12-2011, 05:05 AM.

      Comment


        #78
        Re: Frustration and more frustration trying to install a V11 desktop app on another P

        Michael,
        With Astrum you can also use a URL that will bring up the microsoft download dialog for the .NET ....this is basically what Alpha does and that way if the .NET flavor you have Astrum check for is not installed, it uses the URL and the .NET installs with the microsoft dialog install which guides the user....after it installs, Astrum then continues with the regular install you have created. With some work I managed to utilize the internal Alpha install URL that they use and so if the download site ever changes I will just have to incorporate whatever Alpha uses as they would have to make whatever changes required anyway. This not only makes the install file much smaller (no .NET fiile) but then you have less maintenance and know that the correct download is being used (believe it is only the "Client" .NET which is much smaller).
        Mike
        __________________________________________
        It is only when we forget all our learning that we begin to know.
        It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
        Henry David Thoreau
        __________________________________________



        Comment


          #79
          Re: Frustration and more frustration trying to install a V11 desktop app on another P

          I have been asked for an .ai2 file so it could be looked at. I would appreciate any suggestions with it also.

          Here it is in zip format



          Good luck
          Dave Mason
          [email protected]
          Skype is dave.mason46

          Comment


            #80
            Re: Frustration and more frustration trying to install a V11 desktop app on another P

            Paul, Michael may have something. I do only web with Alpha however I install a lot of other software and sometimes a machine even though it might say sp3 ALL of the proper components do not install or are there.

            Beside your frustration which I completely understand your machine which it works on copy the runtime files from the proper directory to another ancd then download the.NET4 install.
            Run the .NET install
            copy the runtimes to the proper directory and test on an other machine
            see what happens some times you have to get your install working leave it as a known working version to use.

            I had a machine today brand new just installed Microsoft office a few hours later after other installs from usb drives
            Disk drive is gone! GO figure.

            Always break it down to small things and things that you know work.
            Nicholas Wieland
            LedgerSuite.com Corp
            [email protected]
            http://www.ledgersuite.com

            Comment


              #81
              Re: Frustration and more frustration trying to install a V11 desktop app on another P

              After reading the whole thread, being an alpha five newbie ,i was so confused and i don't know what to follow in distributing my v11 sample app, if ever i become an expert in alpha five, in my thought "so what if i mastered all of the alpha five functions, methods, tables, sets etc. how can i distribute it the application that i made?" And before continuing to learn alpha five i tried to build a dummy app,Actually it is not yet an app, it's just a menu and a single form for me to test if i can run it on another PC,I became curious on this thread about FRUSTRATIONS IN DISTRIBUTING ALPHA V11 apps. Can someone then, make a final step by step procedure in distributing v11 desktop apps to either xp or win 7 all editions (just for the benefit of total newbies in alpha five) . Thanks.

              Comment


                #82
                Re: Frustration and more frustration trying to install a V11 desktop app on another P

                First thing is: The preceding discussion was a bit jumbled and many were voicing how they did things and try to get their point(s) across.

                Too bad it confused you!

                There are several ways to accomplish what you ask. It somewhat depends on where you will deploy your app and whether or not you will be there. It also depends if you need to put on a multi-user app where it will be run from two or more computers at the same time.

                I try to make all my apps so I do NOT have to be present and they can be downloaded from the web or available on cd. Others are going to be on site and have all they need with them to be sure of what they do.

                Most of my apps are for a single user and do not require much if any user input for install. I also learned a long time ago that it was much easier(for me) to use an installer than to rely on the installer included in alpha. Also, I already had the installer by the time alpha made their own.

                There are quite a few better threads on here about installing your app.
                Dave Mason
                [email protected]
                Skype is dave.mason46

                Comment


                  #83
                  Re: Frustration and more frustration trying to install a V11 desktop app on another P

                  being a total newbie in alpha,Please show/recommend me how to deploy in a multi-user app, and users will install on their own the application. i saw some of the threads and it really confused me on what to follow/imitate.
                  Cheers!

                  Comment


                    #84
                    Re: Frustration and more frustration trying to install a V11 desktop app on another P

                    Originally posted by Selwyn Rabins View Post
                    The only difference between V10 and V11 is that the .Net Framework V4 must be installed for V11.
                    This can't be good news.....
                    .NET is an "unnecessary evil dependency".........

                    IMHO, the core of a5 should install with, or without this dependency........
                    In my past experiences, (for whatever reasons) I've encountered too many PC's with corrupt .NET installs.......
                    (and when they're corrupt, they have one heck of a time "fixing themselves.")
                    It's a shame that "a bad installation of .NET" will break a5!

                    It's bad enough dealing with all the DLL's etc......


                    I would have much preferred that a5 integration with .NET was done via an "optional, opt-in" architecture......

                    The "lack of dependencies" (in general) is already a very compelling reason for PC users to envy the Mac......
                    My top justification for supporting & using Alpha5 is to distance myself from all the dependencies which presently exist between Windows & the MS development tools....

                    I suspect that this dependency also means that the a5 unlimited runtime won't install if .NET has "issues" on a PC???
                    Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
                    It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
                    RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

                    Comment


                      #85
                      Re: Frustration and more frustration trying to install a V11 desktop app on another P

                      It will install, just may not run.

                      I voted against .net if memory serves me right. Obviously, I was not the only one who voiced.

                      I include the full .net installer that chooses which way it goes depending on 64 or 32 bit. It has never failed that way. Possibly with an install done over the web, there could be issues?
                      Dave Mason
                      [email protected]
                      Skype is dave.mason46

                      Comment


                        #86
                        Re: Frustration and more frustration trying to install a V11 desktop app on another P

                        Originally posted by DaveM View Post
                        It will install, just may not run.

                        I voted against .net if memory serves me right. Obviously, I was not the only one who voiced.

                        I include the full .net installer that chooses which way it goes depending on 64 or 32 bit. It has never failed that way. Possibly with an install done over the web, there could be issues?
                        Over the web, yep... I've had my own systems at work (virtually virgin win install)s, and after numerous updates I encountered all sorts of issues relative to .net in an unusable state. Fortunately, I haven't encountered this in quite some time, but when I did, it was a bear to fix things.... (.net fix utilities, safe mode etc).... ~A frequent problem with Windows Xperimental Programming.....

                        I wonder whether the same carries true for the newly released a5 Deskop Only Edition....???? ~ I'm guessing it's the same scenario there.....

                        I don't like the concept of windows as far as "everything depends on everything else" concept. "A recipe for disaster." ~ Only fix for this is either safe mode, or back to DOS....... (or Mac.)

                        I've always thought of windows a TALL THICK CLUB SANDWICH..... Hard to prepare, hard cut, hard to keep together on a plate, and whatever you do, don't "push down on it too hard".... Because if you do, everything gets squeezed out..... (mustard, mayo, and all)......
                        Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
                        It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
                        RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

                        Comment


                          #87
                          Re: Frustration and more frustration trying to install a V11 desktop app on another P

                          Robert,
                          You are pretty much right. The first windows was an app on a dos system and it stayed that way for a long time. I still think dos is there, way back in the back. That is what the command prompt is. Sometimes I wish I still remembered the old dos commands.

                          Mac - Not for my taste. I had other issues with that.
                          Dave Mason
                          [email protected]
                          Skype is dave.mason46

                          Comment


                            #88
                            Re: Frustration and more frustration trying to install a V11 desktop app on another P

                            I've been retreading my V4 real paper book Dave.
                            What do you want to know?
                            Only a week to go! Ready?
                            See our Hybrid Option here;
                            https://hybridapps.example-software.com/


                            Apologies to anyone I haven't managed to upset yet.
                            You are held in a queue and I will get to you soon.

                            Comment


                              #89
                              Re: Frustration and more frustration trying to install a V11 desktop app on another P

                              Originally posted by DaveM View Post
                              Robert,
                              You are pretty much right. The first windows was an app on a dos system and it stayed that way for a long time. I still think dos is there, way back in the back. That is what the command prompt is. Sometimes I wish I still remembered the old dos commands.

                              Mac - Not for my taste. I had other issues with that.
                              ~With regards to the "Windows thing", we think alike Mike.... I've always insisted that DOS is still there at some level.... It puts the safe back in safe mode... When the PC boots, the egg (DOS) first appears before the chicken salad (Windows) gets er... "scrambled."
                              I still remember, and occasionally use a handful of the "ancillary" command prompt "DOS commands"...... They sure can help while attempting to resuscitate a "dead PC."

                              PS: Totally off topic, but you can actually force an install of Win-7 via safe mode, by gaining access to the device manager. (Even when it doesn't appear as an option.) I needed this trick last week when a stock lenovo server wouldn't accept a fresh install of windows-7 due to some funky internal hardware configuration that hung the Win-7 install, over and over again.... Here's how: http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials...tallation.html ~ This is a great (undocumented???) tip. You never know when you might need it!
                              Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
                              It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
                              RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

                              Comment


                                #90
                                Re: Frustration and more frustration trying to install a V11 desktop app on another P

                                I so not know what version of A5 v11 you have, but when I load A5 Installmaker, the first thing it says is in BOLD letters is that the target machine needs to have Microsoft .Net Framemaker and the C++ Runtimes installed. That Installmaker does NOT install these pre-requiste files. It tells you what the names of both those files are in Microsofts download directory. I have them installed on XP and Win 7 because MS SQL Server requires them also. I carry both of them on a thumb drive when I go to install on a client, plus I ask the client to check their Control Panel programs to see if they are there so know if I have to pre-install them. Installing A5 Runtime on a remote target machine is ideal because if you have a problem you only have to send the fixed app as an attachment. Otherwise, if the Installmaker contains the runtime and application, you end up trying to email a 130,000,000 character file, which probably will not make it, instead of just 13,000,000.

                                I have apps running with and without runtime combined running on both XP and Win 7 with no problems. because I read their documentation.

                                They do not have the problem. They are trying to tell why it is not working and how to fix it, because you did not read the documentation, but you seem to be ignoring the simple solution.

                                Comment

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