Dbf Server Requirements?

[mronck]

Re: Dbf Server Requirements?

And I really think Dave, that THAT is exactly the moment when you need to start thinking about taking all to the cloud with a Tier 5 level, carrier neutral, hosting data center. For all of us who are professional developers, take my advice and ask such a data center in your neighborhood if they would be willing to give you a small tour around the facility. For some, this will be a real eye-opener to the world of high quality datacenters.

[DaveM]

Re: Dbf Server Requirements?

Marcel,

I really don't need your advice. I am a certified IT and been doing this as long or longer than you. If you wish to talk down to someone, then I suggest you choose someone under you!

Most of my customers(my higher end apps) run industrial grade servers, have their own IT, Have top quality hubs/switches/modems/etc, and their own work stations. Some have a lot less. I use my own for testing. I doubt many alpha programmers have a need for the cloud while getting an app ready

UH, why would I need to visit someone else?? I have enough to run and test what I make.

[Ray in Capetown]

Re: Dbf Server Requirements?

This is not a PC - no windows it just serves data.

Will I still use Windows 7 Professional on the Server or Windows Server 2008 0r 2012? Will it make a difference on Speed? I used windows 7 and just shared a folder of my app and shadowed it on the other PC's.As what Dave says, It is good enough.

[DaveM]

Re: Dbf Server Requirements?

This is not a PC - no windows it just serves data.

Ray,
I don't understand what you mean??

Oh, you are talking about the cloud server thing.
I deal with car dealers. They are real funny about their data being anywhere except in their own servers at their main location. If not for that, I would have put them on a server system long ago. They don't have to worry about anything going down that they don't have in house.

example: Internet goes down while you are trying to print a contract on a 40,000 car sale for a jumpy customer who may bolt and run. Not good and I get the blame.
If their server goes down, they have a backup for emergency.

[JetLi]

Re: Dbf Server Requirements?

will the file access for my app be faster then if i use windows server 2008, instead of windows 7 prof?

[DaveM]

Re: Dbf Server Requirements?

I do not have a definitive answer to that. I have used server 2003, xp, win7, win2000, Linux(which is free), and a few others. I really saw no difference in speed, but most of the server software will give you the means for more security than a windows desktop app.

Most of your speed will be in workstation speed which entails, memory(amount and speed), hd access speed, chip speed, card speed, etc. Next is network speed, cabling, switches, etc. Next is server which is kinda like the work station. Multi core can help if utilized on all computers if set up right.

Were I going to set up a server system( which I used to do), I would buy a commercial server with raid at about 2500.00, a really top line switch box, use fiber optic Cabling, and fast pc's as workstations with really good lan cards. For server software, it would be Linux. This is what I would do for use with alpha on a large user base. It may differ for some others. But again, price is a big factor. This system and my labor would probably cost a client about 5000.00 running everything(not including the alpha application).

[Ray in Capetown]

Re: Dbf Server Requirements?

Ray,
I don't understand what you mean??

It's a NAS server Dave that one I specified would easily do the job.
see wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network-attached_storage
Look it up.
I have only one client running my software on Linux - what a high maintenance server.
I dont do cloud except maybe for backup

[mronck]

Re: Dbf Server Requirements?

Marcel,

I really don't need your advice.

That's fine Dave. If you think you already know it all, then consider it not given.....

What you DO seem to need however is to READ more carefully and be a little less quick with your reactions!
I did not gave my advice to YOU specifically, but I said literally: "..For all of us who are professional developers....".

Furthermore, I don't see why such an advice would be "talking down someone".... It surely was not meant that way, but besides that: it is a very meaningful experience for virtually anybody to visit a tier 5 data center and get yourself toured around there. Most developers would consider that "a treat". What exactly from that advice is "talking someone down" ? I really think you should lighten up a bit. In my experience I have often encountered situations where a change in platform setup was needed, and almost always indeed took place on the boundary of having your own data facilities and upgrading to a professional data center. There is a turning around point where that becomes a very sound, economical and quality enhancing option. I have been lucky to work with a few of the very best data centers available in The Netherlands and visited even quite a few more of them. It always was a complete delight for me to step into the world of superlatives they have to offer. You can't really tell if you did not ever visit a tier 5 data center.

I also don't quite understand how you would come to the conclusion that you would be "doing this as long or longer than you"? How would you know that? This is not a poor p***ing-contest Dave. I gave an advice with friendly intention, and if you don't care for that, then you are entitled to that opinion. Maybe others however do care for it, and then the advice is for them. But this is a forum and a little bit more flexibility and tolerance to people in general and those for whom English might not be their native language especially would be nice. Let's keep this forum a friendly place of discussion, help and knowledge among each other.

Innovation is huge, and development of IT is not a slow ongoing thing. There have been made huge steps forward in the last years considering performance, security, availability, continuity, scaling, etc etc. It is always good to keep up with things (especially for those of us who have been in this business "a long time" !) and though you are very much entitled to your own opinion (as am I) the question "why would I need to visit 'someone else'??" is quite astonishing. You are never ready with learning in life and profession, and there is always something to be gained by study, even for the most capable and experienced among us. The moment you stop learning (because you think you know it all already) is the moment you stop going forward.

There is nothing wrong with learning. And in this case it is not even "someone else" as you say. A tier 5 Data center is quite something else as a developer working with servers and workstations. Those are highly professional operations involving many millions of dollars, engaging very complex and difficult tasks with state of the art, high end solutions on a large scale. That is not comparable with any of the situations a normal developer would encounter with a typical client, but their services are ready to use and can be the best good choice under conditions.

DatacenterDynamics has published figures that state that the worldwide investment in data centers has grown by an astounding figure of 22 percent, from 86 billion dollars in 2011 to 105 billion dollars in 2012. An average, medium size but low tier data center will cost about 100 million euro minimum to build. That says something about such an operation. Data centers have become the nerve center of society and are very much worth a visit. If they will have you that is.

[DaveM]

Re: Dbf Server Requirements?

Ray, I enjoyed that.

Thanks

I have several on Linux and they don't ever seem to have problems. They don't use the server for anything but a file system pretty much. No internet for them, no print serving or anything else. I just put the data there and access it through a work station. Never from the server box. A new update, upgrade, etc is done from a workstation. I do the same with my test systems at my own home office. I guess that helps me when I send them an update/.

[DaveM]

Re: Dbf Server Requirements?

Marcel,

I don't think any one on here knows it all, including you and me. As a whole, I would believe that a combination of all our thoughts and experiences would give us a large advantage well past most other groups I have seen in forums.

I am 66 years old and can remember installing a modem when it had to be soldered to a main/mother board and a program had to be written to make it work. It was written on a large floppy because we didn't have hard drives back then. Remember getting a hard drive in a computer many years later and wondered what to do with all the space. I remember connecting 2 computers together so I could use one while the other on compiled my code(about 2 hours).

Let us let what was said and what was edited die now and not carry it forward! In other words - forget and forgive.

The idea of this thread was to help Jetson get his network going. I believe he has done so. He can add and modify for more speed at his own pace. I suspect that he would have got it done if none of us were here to help, but maybe we helped a little with the speed of deployment.

[mronck]

Re: Dbf Server Requirements?

Marcel,

I don't think any one on here knows it all, including you and me. As a whole, I would believe that a combination of all our thoughts and experiences would give us a large advantage well past most other groups I have seen in forums.

I am 66 years old and can remember installing a modem when it had to be soldered to a main/mother board and a program had to be written to make it work. It was written on a large floppy because we didn't have hard drives back then. Remember getting a hard drive in a computer many years later and wondered what to do with all the space. I remember connecting 2 computers together so I could use one while the other on compiled my code(about 2 hours).

Let us let what was said and what was edited die now and not carry it forward! In other words - forget and forgive.

The idea of this thread was to help Jetson get his network going. I believe he has done so. He can add and modify for more speed at his own pace. I suspect that he would have got it done if none of us were here to help, but maybe we helped a little with the speed of deployment.

Fair enough. I agree.

Back in my days when I started we still had a one (large!) floppy machine I believe it was an Olivetti M24. My boss back then used to pin floppies lying around to the messageboard with a staple ran through it and a note on it: "Who's floppy is this?" .... not understanding a bit of what that thing actually was.....
So, you are not that much older.... :-) Maybe just looking somewhat older, that could be...... :-)

[DaveM]

Re: Dbf Server Requirements?

My first to use was a wang machine in 1971. It was purchased by the dealer I worked for. All it would do is print contracts, but they were correct. You put one floppy(operating system) in and then insert the data disk. as you input a record, you could save it and print the contract for a car sale. prior to that, a lady in the office typed them out on a typewriter for us.

It came with a guy to operate it. One day, it quit and he went home saying a repair man would be there in a few days to repair it. I looked at it and found a wire had come loose when he moved it(inside the machine). Thank god for the schooling I had in electricity/electronics. I repaired it and printed the contracts needed( I had learned because my office was where I could see all he did). I wound up with his job and still sold cars. We only sold about 250 cars a month back then, so it was not much of a bother. It did make me a lot of money.

[JetLi]

Re: Dbf Server Requirements?

Thanks as always for trying to help. If I use Linux as the operating system of the server,can the workstations which uses Windows access the server? Can I put my Alpha Five application on a linux operating system.What flavor of linux is recommended?Ubuntu?

[DaveM]

Re: Dbf Server Requirements?

Jetson,

Yes you can. May I suggest, first time with Linux OS can be tough. It is not at all like a windows OS. There is help online and it is where I learned what little I know. Just creating a directory/folder was a chore. May I suggest staying with a windows server for the time being. I am not saying you can't do it, because I know you are bright, just very time consuming at first. You can probably get a copy of ms server 2003 or 2008 from somebody who has moved up and it would do just fine, maybe better depending on the system and would not be as hard the first time.

I am using Ubuntu. I also installed one of the desktops for it. had to set up all the other stuff too. I originally did it as an exercise because I have customers with it. I wish I remembered all I had to do to set it up. I think I wound up installing it 6 or 7 times after I muffed it up so bad.

What I am saying is, I got on a forum kinda like this one and did a lot of googling to make it all work.

[JetLi]

Re: Dbf Server Requirements?

Thanks Dave.